"Copy from this list"

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Dear IMDb Staff | Champions

This is a query relating to the "Copy from this list" feature found when selecting the pencil icon  | User Lists:

Could a staff member | Champion please explain why this feature is present? My reasoning for asking this is based on past experience - where some users have exploited the work of others, not only relating to the titles themselves, but, the content added by another user in the description of that title. I am aware IMDb policy does not view this as plagiarism and the listee has no legal grounds to contest another user copying their work. But, is it not possible IMDb can implement some change, where copying titles from another user's list remains, but the user-added information is not?

Your response will be appreciated
Thanks
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Dr-Faustus

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Posted 11 months ago

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bderoes, Champion

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On the flip side, it would be nice to have an option, when copying from someone else, to OMIT their comments. I've got a 1000+ title list that is mostly someone else's, and I credit him in the list description, but I would rather have pulled the titles without his comments. (I still would give him credit for assembling the list. I do for 36-item lists too.)

I could spend the time/energy adding each title to my Watchlist, then move from there to a new list, but that's just not gonna happen any time soon.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi bderoes.

Thanks for the reply.

The option to delete, you speak of, is actually not the flip side. It is killing two birds with one stone. Also, the fact that you have shown integrity to credit another person's list, that for the most part you copied, unfortunately does not apply to everyone. In other words, those that copy others lists with detailed and time-consuming descriptions attached, and do not acknowledge that person's work, are falsely claiming that work as their own. And that ain't right. Pure and simple.

As far as spending "the time/energy" adding titles to your Watchlist; IMDb has the feature where you can selectively add a title to any list of your choosing. So you need not add to your Watchlist so as to transfer to another list. What joy is there in simply copying en masse from someone else? The whole point of creating lists is the satisfaction one gets in relation to the effort behind it. The more effort the more sense of accomplishment one feels.
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bderoes, Champion

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Hi Dr-Faustus
No, I don't create most of my lists for the satisfaction of creating them.
I make them
  1. To keep track of my inventory, so I don't buy a duplicate unintentionally.
  2. To make notes on why I rated the film as I did. (Well, to point to the blog where the notes live.)
  3. To track specific titles I want to view/own.
And then there's the special case of Looney Tunes compilations, where it's better to make an IMDb list of the shorts on the disc(s) both for
  • comparing to what I own already, and
  • to prevent me from checking through all those titles again in the future because I'm not sure if I researched it before.
Just before the Dec 6 update, I spent 2-3 days creating a list of films found in an appendix of a book about tap dancing. I would have gladly copied it from someone else, and would have no feelings about someone else copying it from me.

I created it not as a public service, nor as a project in and of itself, but as a reference document for my current film project: to watch every musical I can get my eyes on, in chronological order. But classifying films by genre is subjective, and Music/Musical is particularly so. I don't mind the films that ARE classified as such, when I disagree. I get really steamed when I miss a musical because no one tagged it with that Genre, or worse, because IMDb REFUSES to tag it. (I tried to get several Mae West movies tagged with either, and had NO success. To me, if you remember that the character sings several songs, and go back to see it (at least in part) BECAUSE of her singing, (likewise dancing, but not from her), then it is a musical. </end off-topic rant>

So I use that list to:
  1. Find movies that aren't tagged properly
  2. Know that yes, I want to see these Donald O'Connor movies because he dances.
  3. Help me identify dancers not properly credited in IMDb.
  4. Help me prioritize my purchases (dancing musicals preferred to the stand-up-and-sing variety.)
I totally understand that you don't want people ripping off your hard work. Because, again, I'm really impressed with that Movie Odyssey list.

Have you found a copy (or copies) of your list elsewhere on IMDb?

BTW, even knowing now that I can reference someone else's lists with an ATS (y'know, Advanced Title Search), does not mean that I'm satisfied to leave an important list like the big one I copied in his hands. What if he gets fed up with IMDb, and deletes his account? I want that list for as long as I'm here, so I would make a copy of that particular list just for security. (It's the complete Looney Tunes filmography, sequenced by release date, so it's mostly static, and totally objective. Your Odyssey list is much more dynamic.)

Also, most people don't know (I didn't until a few weeks ago) that you can compare someone else's list with your own using ATS. So I often made a copy of someone's list just to ATS it. Usually I would delete it soon after. But I can imagine letting it linger on my account if I thought I might need to do that again. (Boy am I glad I know the ATS thing now, because at 100 titles per page instead of 250, copying is a much bigger task than before.)

Well, I'm off to see the Wizard. Literally, it's August 1939, and Dorothy and the gang are cued up on DVD.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi bderoes.

Nice comeback. Both defensive and complimentary in the same post. 

You state you don't create 'most' lists for the satisfaction of creating them. The reasons as explained by you clearly supports that. That is totally acceptable. However, that is neither the subject nor context of my previous post.

As far as functionality is concerned, a number of my lists serve a dual function. Both as a similar purpose as described by you, and a shared experience. The core motive in making my lists public being; to share a lifelong passion for cinema, and try to convey the profound and positive impact it has made in my life which hopefully can serve as an inspiration to others. Especially those starting to experience the power of cinema. That is the primary source of what is behind the 'satisfaction' as described in my previous post.
As far as your lists are concerned; you have stated your lists are not created as a public service. However, your lists are not private and can be viewed publicly via IMDb, or through a search engine. I have viewed your lists, and can confidently state, intended or not, you have provided a public service. To add to this; though you have stated your lists are created as a reference document, from my perspective, they also reflect a real passion for cinema.

Thanks for the positive feedback relating to my '2018: A Movie Odyssey' list. Yes, I have recently found a partial copy of this list. Yet, the issue of copying lists, other than the purposes described by you, is an issue that goes back years. Your statement regarding copying a particular list also makes perfect sense. The only issue I have with copying lists is if it is done with the specific intent to claim another person's work as their own. This is purely from an ethical perspective.

ATS? Thanks to your previous post regarding this acronym, I will never forget Advanced Title Search til' my dying day.

'The Wizard of Oz' - One of the greatest movies off all time. If you watch it a thousand times, it is still one watch too few. Enjoy!

Thanks for your post, bderoes. 

Peace
(Edited)
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bderoes, Champion

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Hi Dr-Faustus

I spent all those pixels talking about the purpose of my lists because you closed your preceding comment with 
The whole point of creating lists is the satisfaction one gets in relation to the effort behind it. The more effort the more sense of accomplishment one feels.
And my head shakes no when I read that.

If my lists happen to provide a public service, so much the better. (But I ain't got no view counts like yours!) I share them in the spirit of reciprocity (not sure that's a spirit). And yes, I have a passion for film, and I grieve the fact that young people don't watch b/w films, and don't know who Cary Grant is! And having attended the occasional film class at my local university, I'm distressed that they do not attempt to get students hooked on the classics while teaching the history of film. </end of that sidebar>

If a copier of your list states in their list description that they have provided the comments, then you should try to go after them. Or if they set up some method for making actual cash from their copy of the list.

I have 2 IMDb accounts: one involving inventory I own, one for information about titles I may want to own. If I set up a list on one account, and decide to transfer all or part of it to the other account, I want the comments to come with the titles. If IMDb does what you ask, my ability to fully transfer my own list across accounts goes away.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi bderoes

Understandable, the quotation above must be seen in context of both my posts. Also, the part; "The more effort the more sense of accomplishment one feels." is a general term that can also be applied to any form of accomplishment one feels when an effort is made. If you do not agree with that, then so be it.

View counts are great as motivation, knowing that at least people are viewing your lists. However, what is more important than numbers is if that list is making a positive impact on the viewer. Has that list encouraged someone to view or research a film he or she would ordinarily not do? And, as a result, does that person then develop an appreciation of films previously dismissed? And that is where I agree 100% with you. It is truly disheartening to hear, in some circles, that there is no attempt to get students hooked on the classics. Not only are those films the historical foundation of which modern films are an extension of but, they have so much to offer the viewer, if only given the opportunity to do so.

As far as list copying is concerned, I have in the past left a message concerning my grievances and attached it to that list. Lists I could not comment on were left as is. However, I did report this in a letter to the help desk on Mon,18 May 2015, 03:23:01 AM, but have, as of yet (and including this post) not received any correspondence or information from IMDb staff. And I doubt very much if I will.
Copying and making cash is a whole other department, and does not concern me. This takes on other dimensions where legal action comes into play. Such as copyright infringement and when terms and condition are not met.

Transferring one's own work can be adjusted so as to allow a user to do that within the parameters of his or her accounts. One just needs to prove both, or multiple, accounts are from the same user.

Anyway, thanks for your post bderoes.

Peace
(Edited)
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bderoes, Champion

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Hi Dr-Faustus,

Yes, I agree that hard work makes the accomplishment more worthwhile. Really I do.

But creating the objective 1000+ title list I copied (Warner cartoons in release order) consists of tapping 1000+ times on the Add-to Watchlist flag on the search results:
http://www.imdb.com/search/title?title_type=short&genres=animation&companies=warner&view...
Then moving those from the Watchlist to the destination list (without losing the order).

That's just a lot of tapping: busy work, not hard work. No satisfaction there.

I doubt that IMDb is tracking the fact that my 2 accounts are related. They're attached to 2 different email addresses, and we don't provide much other data for IMDb to relate them, other than the same nickname embedded in both.

BTW, I'm still working through the extra features on The Wizard of Oz dvds. I may need to watch the film again before I put it away. I should watch it without color, both to relive how I probably saw it first, and to transition back to the reality of the upcoming films on my list.
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Dr-Faustus

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Hi bderoes.

No problem.

Point taken. In the context you are describing, creating a 1000+ list by tapping on the Add-to icon is simply an inefficient and thankless means of creating a list.

As far as multiple accounts are concerned, I am inclined to agree with you on this too. If accounts are created from multiple email addresses, I doubt very much IMDb is able to establish a common link connecting those accounts. One would have to create a system where a unique security code is made available to the account holder wishing to create multiple linked accounts. I am not sure if a nickname will suffice?

Great to hear you are working through the extra features on The Wizard of Oz DVDs. I, like yourself, am an avid DVD & Blu-ray collector (obsessive, maybe?). And one of the great selling points for me is, without a doubt, the extras.

At first glance the last line of your post seems somewhat cryptic, but if one claims to be a fan of The Wizard of Oz, there is no mistaking what you are relating to. 
Anyway, I think it's time for me to go home now.

Thanks for your post bderoes.

Peace
(Edited)

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