2PS: Favorite Royal or Noble Oscar-Nominated Performance?

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The 2019 award season may very well be the year of the the royal or noble Oscar-nominated performance. The year includes notable performances by Olivia Colman, Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz in The Favourite (2018) and Saoirse Ronan and Margot Robbie in Mary Queen of Scots (2018) among others. Most of these performances are generating early award buzz, garnering other award season nominations and are Oscar short-listed in the lead-up to the Oscars.

Favorite Royal Oscar-Nominated Performance?

Which of these select Oscar-nominated performance depicting a movie character of the immediate royal* family is your favorite? * King, Queen, Prince, Princess, Emperor, Emperoress, Dictator and Dictatress (real-life or fictional)

Live Poll: TBD

See the partial IMAGE list of Oscar-nominated royal character performances here: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls040489608/

Favorite Noble Oscar-Nominated Performance?
Which of these Oscar-nominated performance depicting a noble* rank or noble-born movie character, excluding the immediate royal family is your favorite? * Duke, Duchess, Marquess, Marchioness, Earl, Count, Countess, Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, Lord, Lady or other noble-born characters (real-life or fictional)

Live Poll: TBD

See the partial IMAGE list of Oscar-nominated noble character performances here: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls040419058/
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urbanemovies

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Posted 4 months ago

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urbanemovies

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Royal or Noble Oscar-Nominated Performance Honorable Mentions
Royalty Characters

Jack Oakie, The Great Dictator Benzini Napaloni: Dictator of Bacteria

Charles Laughton The Private Life of Henry VIII. Henry VIII: King of England

John Barrymore Marie Antoinette Louis XVI: King of France

Charles Boyer Conquest Napoleon Bonaparte: Emperor of France

Peter Ustinov Quo Vadis Nero: Emperor of Rome

Basil Rathbone If I Were King Louis XI: King of France

Bette Davis, Brian Aherne Juarez Maximilian von Habsburg: Emperor of Mexico
Nobility Characters


Lewis Stone The Patriot Count Peter Alekseyevich Pahleni

Frank Morgan The Affairs of Cellini Alessandro de' Medici, Duke of Florence
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urbanemovies

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Rex Harrison, Cleopatra Gaius Julius Caesar, Dictator of the Roman Republic

Gale Sondergaard, Anna and the King of Siam Lady Thiang, Princess Consort

Maria Ouspenskaya Dodsworth Baroness von Obersdorf

Emil Jannings The Last Command Grand Duke Sergius Alexander/General Dolgorucki

Norma Shearer Romeo and Juliet Juliet - Daughter to Lady Capulet

Basil Rathbone, Romeo and Juliet Tybalt - Nephew to Lady Capulet

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Ibrahim Akhtar

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My vote from the list of Royals: Lucius Aurelius Commodus
My vote from the list of Nobles: Winston Churchill
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Nancoise

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Hello Movie Fans,

While looking forward to the 91st Oscar Nominations, my vote is for Norma Shearer as Marie Antoinette in the title role. (1939)
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urbanemovies

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Nothing like an oldie, but a goodie!!
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Jessica, Champion

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Typos:
The 2019 award season may very well be the year of the royal or noble...

Which of these Oscar-nominated performances depicting...
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urbanemovies

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The 2019 award season may very well be the year of the the royal or noble...


Which of these Oscar-nominated performance depicting...

I corrected listed duplicate "the" word and singular "performance" use
on both poll suggestions.

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Peter, Champion

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I would take issue with including Chaplin's Hitler parody as a "royal".

Same goes for Idi Amin, though I have a feeling we have discussed this before somewhere.
(Edited)
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urbanemovies

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Royal lines have to start somewhere, usually by force and usually by a conquering army that invades another country or overthrows an existing regime from within. I view Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Marcus Aurelius, and others as being royal. All of these emperors or dictators established or greatly expanded their empires.

In the modern world, rulers don't proclaim themselves king anymore. North Korea's Kim dynasty and Napoleon's Second French Empire are great examples. New Empires are by their nature less stable and on the whole more prone to collapsing in a single or a few generations. I see little difference in the actions any of these characters, other than being in the formative stages rather being part of an established stage of an empire. I would agree Dictators and Emperors tend to be more self-made, early house leaders, while kings and princes tend to inherit their titles with more maintaining their house's regime or seeing it though ebbs and flows.

Idi Amini's full, formal title, which he conferred upon himself is "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular." I think Idi if asked considered himself nouveau royalty and his regal sounding for life title seems to support that.

I can understand your reservations with those two being the least regal, but I think you would agree they are at the very least dictators. I think the royal definition is a slippery slope, as a more restrictive definition could exclude for instance Roman rulers and other societies that use merit based ascension rules like the Dothraki. I chose broader and more inclusive parameters for the poll to avoid this issue. I feel comfortable with the scope including Kings, Queens, Princes, Princesses, Emperors, Emperoresses, Dictators and Dictatresses, all being roughly on the same level.

As always, I include options that are reasonably fit the scope. As always poll takers, who agree can show their support and those who disagree can simply ignore them as viable and cast their vote for another option that fits their definition.

It would seem to me the same logic that would allows some Oscar-nominated Emperor(s) or Dictatator(s) to pass without issue should allow these other Oscar-nominated Emperor(s) or Dictatator(s) to pass muster.

Charles Boyer Conquest Napoleon Bonaparte: Emperor of France
Rex Harrison, Cleopatra Gaius Julius Caesar, Dictator of the Roman Republic
Brian Aherne Juarez Maximilian von Habsburg: Emperor of Mexico
Joaquin Phoenix Gladiator Lucius Aurelius Commodus: Roman emperor
Charles Chaplin The Great Dictator Hynkel: Dictator of Tomania
Forest Whitaker The Last King of Scotland Idi Amin, President for Life of Uganda (Dictator)
(Edited)
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MAthePA

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urbanemovies

As usual, you tell unusual stories when touching history.
You know, history is not a story to rewrite each month or year according to political situations as it was widely used in Soviet Union.

"Dictator" has no semantic equality to "Royal". If a person inherited the royal power to rule other people, it can not automatically mean he/she is, or is going to be a dictator. People always try to wipe dictators out; and the handling same as yours often resulted in killing some persons who was just royal and not dictators.

A great example how wrong you are is Victor Emmanuel III versus Benito Mussolini. When placing the fictional character of Benzini Napaloni (prototyped from Mussolini) in the row of royal persons, do you try to convince others that Victor Emmanuel III and his son Umberto II were born dictators?

Just think, please, if your going to write a very long answer again.
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urbanemovies

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I am not saying "Dictator" is the semantic equal to "Royal". I am saying for the purposes of this question I am defining the scope to include * King, Queen, Prince, Princess, Emperor, Emperoress, Dictator and Dictatress (real-life or fictional). The reason for doing so is to not exclude viable answers and cherry pick answers. Any measures that includes Emperors and Dictators, excludes Emperors and Dictators or use particular rules of ascension is going to result in an imperfect answer pool in some poll takers eyes. I tried to fully explain this above.

Fictional character of Benzini Napaloni and others are in the pool of answers because they fall within the defined scope for the purpose of the question.* King, Queen, Prince, Princess, Emperor, Emperoress, Dictator and Dictatress (real-life or fictional). As do these other Oscar-nominated emperors and dictators:

Charles Boyer
Conquest Napoleon Bonaparte: Emperor of France
Rex Harrison, Cleopatra Gaius Julius Caesar, Dictator of the Roman Republic
Brian Aherne Juarez Maximilian von Habsburg: Emperor of Mexico
Joaquin Phoenix Gladiator Lucius Aurelius Commodus: Roman emperor
Charles Chaplin The Great Dictator Hynkel: Dictator of Tomania
Forest Whitaker The Last King of Scotland Idi Amin, President for Life of Uganda (Dictator)

I would recommend trying to see all sides of this issue and not ignore the facts on the other side. I also didn't see you dispute the most of the movie examples I gave in support, as well as real life examples given in support.

Those that take issue with a specific option are free not to vote for it, but shouldn't force others who have a broader perspective the opportunity not to vote for their choice. I have included all options that could fit the broadest definition of "royal". I would recommend trying to see all the issues at play here and look beyond your own viewpoint. Are you saying no Emperors or Dictators could be possibly considered royal, in the past or future or are you taking issue with a single example?

Charles Chaplin The Great Dictator Hynkel: Dictator of Tomania and Forest Whitaker The Last King of Scotland Idi Amin, President for Life of Uganda (Dictator) are included in the pool of answers because they are dictators. Dictators are included for the purpose of the question in the scope of the poll. Some dictators are more perfect examples than others, but poll takers are left to decide which ones fit their personal requirements or definitions. I agree these two are the weakest options in most people eyes, but I can also can see how an argument can be made for their inclusion (or exclusion).
(Edited)
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MAthePA

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Oops, you did it again. The extra-long text with nothing new inside. Wouldn't it be more fruitful to also analyse the others' opinions?

You are mixing three different things into one: royal, dictator, emperor. If the simpliest links provided are not enough for understanding, please try M.Webster and other special sources.

There would be no objections, if you, e.g., prepare the poll one of the following variants:
  • Call it "Favorite Dictator Performance" and include there all known dictators, who can be a member of royal family (Tsar, Duke, Prince(-ss), King, Queen...) or not be such one (Prime-Minister, President, Caesar...);
  • or Call it "Favorite Emperor Performance" and include there all known emperors, who can be both royal or not royal family - it depends on the fact they rule more than one nation and country;
  • or Leave the same name for your poll but exclude the terms "dictator" and "emperor", as well as relative fictional characters.

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urbanemovies

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I don't think you fully understand the complexity of the issue. What you suggest is just trading is just one set issues for another set of issues. Even by using the same peerage term doesn't guarantee consistency, as it  can mean different things in different countries, periods and circumstances.  Plus, authoritative sources support the terms are synonyms for each other, rather than your contention that they are not."You are mixing three different things into one: royal, dictator, emperor." This also would apply to their female versions of the male term. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/emperor

Synonyms for emperor noun ruler
I gave all of this prior thought and factoring in everything; I thought the best course of action is to use a broad definition and allow individual poll takers to decide for themselves. Your solution is really no solution at all.
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urbanemovies

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MAthePA

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No doubt "This also would apply to their female versions of the male term" - this is not the problem if you understand the main idea of the objections.

"Authoritative sources support the terms are synonyms for each other" - name them and links, please.

"I don't think you fully understand the complexity of the issue" - this statement of yours is really out of my understanding because I see no issue in the topic relative to your poll, but only the issue in the way you present it. The only tolerant variant you used above is the word "ruler", so thank yourself to have the 4th variant to name your poll - just using "ruler" instead of "royal".

PS: the synonyms you quote above may be close in some context, but you should check their definitions to understand the difference that in this current case may mislead other people.
(Edited)
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urbanemovies

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"the synonyms you quote above may be close in some context,"  Please, check the definition of synonym.

1 : one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses

It is not a stretch to assume similarly titled characters are basically the same. Synonyms are by their very nature slight variations, it would be pointless to have twenty words that all mean exactly the same thing. As for misleading people, I specifically define my terms within the question for the purpose of the question. However, I can't help if people mislead themselves with connotations that go beyond the meaning of the word or invoke their own ethnocentric biases.
(Edited)
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urbanemovies

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post award season introduction and question updates

The most recent award season secured Olivia Colman Best Actress awards at the Oscars, the Golden Globes and BAFTA film award ceremonies. The year also included Oscar-nominated performances by Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz in The Favourite (2018) and the BAFTA-nominated and SAG-nominated performance by Margot Robbie in Mary Queen of Scots (2018) among others.

Favorite Oscar-Nominated Sovereign Performance

Which of these select all-time Oscar-nominated performances depicting a movie character of a countries' immediate ruling* family is your favorite? * King, Queen, Prince, Princess, Emperor, Emperoress, Dictator and Dictatress or other equivalent (real-life or fictional).

Favorite Oscar-Nominated Noble Performance?

Which of these all-time Oscar-nominated performances depicting a noble* rank or born-to-nobility movie character, excluding the immediate royal family is your favorite? * Duke, Duchess, Marquess, Marchioness, Earl, Count, Countess, Viscount, Viscountess, Baron, Baroness, Lord, Lady or other noble-born characters (real-life or fictional)
(Edited)