A series of missing genres

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  • Not a Problem
First off, I am full aware of the genre definitions and these movies' contents, so don't give me explanations of personal definitions. I have tried adding the missing genres to these movies a number of times but it has always failed, so I need to raise this issue here along with the reference numbers of my submissions:

- Collateral (2004) 

Missing genre: Action
Reference of submission: 190117-132646-558000

- American Psycho (2000)

Missing genre: Horror
Reference of submission: 190117-093054-432000

- War of the Worlds (2005)

Missing genre: Action
Reference of submission: 190117-132632-190000

- Heat (1995)

Missing genre: Action
Reference of submission: 190117-132431-523000

- Seven Samurai (1954)

Missing genre: Action
Reference of submission: 190117-133100-923000

Please make sure to look into this. I'm full aware of what action/horror movies are, and I've done my homework before posting this here. I'm definitely sure these films fall under these missing genres. 

Because if you're gonna display genres, make sure to display all of them and not just a few to avoid content-partiality. I know these missing genres are also a driving force of the above movies apart from the ones which are already listed.

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Manish

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Posted 3 months ago

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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Manish -

Please be aware that the Action genre is subjective, and should only be included on titles where the narrative is driven by scenes where action is spectacular and destructive.
 
If you feel that your rejected genre submissions were incorrectly rejected, you're welcome to resubmit it once for our editors to take another look. However if it still doesn't appear, it means that our editors were unable to process it and/or felt that it didn't satisfy our acceptance criteria. While we welcome additions and corrections, please keep in mind that updates are accepted at our discretion and that we reserve the right to withdraw or reject information at any time.
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Manish

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Michelle, what're you up to?

I have already submitted the updates above, and you want me to submit them again? That makes zero to no sense.
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Manish

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And I'm sure that the IMDb editors who'd been rejecting this are actually at fault here. 
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Manish

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If I have to submit them all again, then what is the point of my posting the submitted reference numbers?
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Manish -

Just to clarify, if you feel strongly that the Action Genre applies to these titles based on our Genre definition, you are welcome to try re-submitting the update again for our editors to take another look and re-consider.  If the updates are again rejected, this will mean that our editors reviewed the information and stand by the decision that the Action genre isn't acceptable to be listed for the titles.
(Edited)
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Manish

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Although this makes no sense to ask a user to do so, here are the reference numbers(hope you don't ask for a third time!)

190117-204305-220000
190117-204334-163000
190117-204357-410000
190117-204458-946000

And why can't the editors take a look at the reference numbers posted in the beginning of the post? They were submitted just yesterday.
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Jeorj Euler

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I'm surprised that the most active members of the IMDb Community are not providing feedback on this. Nevertheless, I happen to be one of them, and I am kind of undecided about the merits of the proposed updates, except for the idea of American Psycho being classified as "Horror" with which I would be inclined to disagree.
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Manish

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Well, at least the official source mentions it as one. And it's pretty much a horror. Who says a horror is all about ghosts/zombies? But fine, this might be subjective as I found it to be a chilling movie but don't you think it should at least be listed as a thriller because the plot has a number of twists and it doesn't have a straightforward narrative?
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Jeorj Euler

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With the advent of the conflation of slasher flicks with the "Horror" genre, the horror genre has been difficult to describe in a particularly uniform way. I wonder if Alfred Hitchcock is to thank for this. I'm seeing debate after debate pop up on this forum regarding "Horror" genre assignments to various movies. I doubt of any of us really has the answers.
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Nikolay Yeriomin, Champion

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Jeorj Euler to be perfectly honest even definition of "slasher" might be a trick to formulate: some movies fit into the genre with no murders whatsoever. I'd say it is a very structure/rhythm based sub-genre of horror: it uses ping-pong like shift from villain's POV to that of victim to provide for an engaging conflict.  

I doubt Hitchcock would have been okay with the fact, but Psycho (1960) is a quintessential proto-slasher: between two murder sequence it manages to make a working outline which was followed and is followed by so much movies it's impossible to account how much. 
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Manish

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I'm afraid I didn't make myself clear.

Why's there no action on this?
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Manish

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Also, there's another movie missing the action genre.

It's called "DISTRICT 9".

It's a science fiction action film with nonstop action sequences, and yet it's missing the action genre. I know why. It was earlier listed as action, sci-fi, thriller but someone who didn't want it to be called an action movie because it is acclaimed and no-nonsense in approach, deleted the action genre.

I assure you it's an action movie and action is REALLY a major driving force of this film.

And yes, before you ask me, here's the 18-digit reference number of my submission adding the genre:

190120-185619-973000
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Celluloidfrog

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I respectfully disagree. Genre-wise, District 9 is a SF (genre) comedy (genre) / parody (subgenre), in which there is a little action but definitely not enough, or important enough in the plot, setting, and character arcs, to qualify the movie as an "Action movie".
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Manish

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I respectfully disagree too. First off, comedy? It doesn't intend to make you laugh. A parody? Absolutely not.

What makes you think a dystopian, dark story would be a comedy?

And little action? Have you actually seen the film or just the first half?

I agree there are only a handful of action scenes in the first half but it's the second half entirely filled with action until the epilogue. And anyways, your criteria of deciding an action movie is absolutely wrong. An action film is defined by the presence of action scenes, not how it helps the "characters arcs". Action is a part of the characters only. It does help the plot... Come on, man. The real plot begins in the second half only when it's a life or death battle.

Would you call a film an actioner if it has no action in it? This film absolutely has lots of action in it.

What I can see in your post is nothing but an attempt to get people ignore that it's a sci-fi action film. Ring a bell? Sci-fi action means action and sci-fi, not just action. Keep that in mind.
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Manish

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And why aren't both the Blade Runner movies listed as action?

I know they're sci-fi and thriller but also action.

I'm no fool to resort to my own definition of action to post something here.

Have a look, editors:

190120-190419-970000
190120-190506-232000
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Manish

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I don't know why I'm constantly posting the list of movies missing the genres even though there's barely any action on this. I know what is right. I'm not asking to pull any genre down. I'm just asking to add those which are missing. 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Genre Shmenre,
Read all about it.
Not once have I ever looked at a Genre to determine weather I would watch it.
Plot is all that matters.
The ONLY 2 Genres that matter are Live action and Animated action
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Vincent Fournols

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What about Mary Poppins, Roger Rabbit, et al.? ;)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Genre= Mix, Live and Animated Action
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Manish

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Not everyone thinks like you do. There are many who do, but I'm not one of them. "Plot is all that matters..." Really?

Don't confuse "what a movie should be" with "how a movie should be".
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Manish

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If plot is all that matters, then why a movie and not a novel?

A movie's not just about plot. 

If you've got a good plot but bad acting and poor effects, then?
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Vincent Fournols

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Manish,

Genres apply to novel as well, and there can be a good plot but poor writing or translation...
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Manish

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I was talking about plot. Plot is all that matters in a novel. Not a movie.

A movie is much more than just a plot. You've got to get the technical to performance aspects right as well. Without it, a film is not a film.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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No Kidding
Movie Fast ........Book Slow
Plot Describes Genre
Genre is for those that won't read the plot.
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Manish

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It's close to a week but there's been no action on this. Please help!
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MAthePA

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It's over 60 years but there's been no action on changing genres for Seven Samurai (1954)
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Manish

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There has to be! 
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Manish

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The time for a change is now! I know it will happen some day. As for Seven Samurai, most critics and viewers alike consider it one of the greatest action movies of all time. 
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Bradley Kent

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Decisions by genre list manager(s) is (are) continually puzzling, not only with the Horror and Action genres, but with ALL genres.  Someone in charge (Col?) needs to investigate these continual complaints.  Either the genre definitions are incomplete, or the list manager(s) is (are) on some kind of pretentious power trip.
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MAthePA

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Bradley Kent, right you are.

I am open-minded for improvements, but they should not develop "per se", without any supportive base. If talk only for movies: the more years public enjoy them in the original frame (including genre), the more you need to be persuasive in your compelling.

When someone asking about genre interchange for a movie 1-3 years after release - no problem to discuss and make a decision.
When someone asking the same for an old movie because other respective sources have a different view - no problem to discuss, but may be a problem to share the different basis.

Quite the opposite, when someone starts this process simply as his own opinion: no other respective place and/or person (so-called critics) sharing such vision, no detailed analysis of existing data, no new data if any... nothing new aside a subjective statement. Good for him, he may think what he wants, it's his freedom. Why should I or other people make the detailed analysis or even start to think about it? A new messiah, or what?

Moreover now, when the genres are very short of discription on IMDB, to be effective in common use, the current situation is the open gate for "genre-war" between users. So, it would be clever in every-day practice do not touch movies older than 3-5 years. And sure, I am not a messiah, just a call to stay logic and be objective, waiting for the structured guidelines on IMDb where it should be then in practice, I hope.
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Jeorj Euler

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Even for genre assignments that are considered to have inclusion criteria based on subjectivity, it would not hurt to take some kind of well-document formulaic approach to figuring out which movies belong and which do not to a genre. There has to be a way to keep it consistent.
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Manish

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Anybody this side? See, how really important issues have no quick solutions.That kinda hurts.
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Will, Official Rep

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Hi all,

Thank you for your points, I've passed those on now. We agree that genres are subjective and this can lead to disputes and we should do a better job of making this clearer in the guidelines. For example, I would not say that either Blade Runner film would warrant the Action genre listing although they do contain action scenes, whereas District 9 should qualify for the genre which I've now re-added. 

Regards,
Will
(Edited)
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Manish

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Will, what about other movies? I've also submitted some more of them below.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Manish -

The Action genre has now been added to the additional titles you reported, "Source Code" and the genre is already listed on "In Order of Disappearance". 

As mentioned previously, if you submitted a genre to a title that has not been approved, please re-submit it and our editors will take another look.  Cheers!
(Edited)
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Manish

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First off, thanks a lot.

Secondly, I'm sorry for responding late.

Thirdly, let the editors have a look at these:

190217-074954-645000
190217-075010-773000
190217-075119-869000
190217-075138-273000
190217-075154-574000
190217-075211-221000
190217-075228-548000
190217-075258-471000
190217-075302-854000
190217-075451-142000
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Will, Official Rep

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Hi Manish,

Thank you for providing those references, I've taken a look at those submissions and they were all correctly rejected - Drive for example is not an action film. Please see this article https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/drive-filmdistrict-lawsuit-ryan-gosling-245871 which explains how there was a lawsuit filed over the trailer.

Regards,
Will
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Manish

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I can see you're trying to defend your editors' actions. So you think only driving is what comes under action? Man, this film has a number of shootings in it. Remember that car chase is not the only thing one can call action. And yes, the article says it's not a race action film. It doesn't say it's not an action film at all. Would you call Die Hard and Fast & Furious the same kind of action movie? No.

And how can you say all were correctly rejected. I very strongly disagree. How come War of the Worlds/Collateral don't qualify? They're both jam-packed with prolonged action scenes. 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Surrender. When they say no twice move on.
I move on when they say no once.
This is just not that important.
You are getting worked up for what?
Words and descriptions.
They say no.
No means No.
Accept it.
Thanks.
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Manish

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Oh yeah... whether it's right or wrong. Fine. Whether I surrender or not, what difference is it gonna make. The titles are still what they already were. 

All I wanted to know was that how could HE say all were incorrect. I didn't ask you. 
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Vincent Fournols

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Manish,

OK, everybody has got it that you are always absolutely unmistakenly right and therefore all others are wrong. Since it seems no issue can be agreed, I suggest you vacate IMDb and create your own website with your decisions and assessments of what keywords out to be.

Now let's move on to all the other topics open on this forum.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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He does not have to explain each instance. He does not have the time.
No is No.
Move on and make more submissions and accept any answer as final.
Accept it.
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Manish

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What? 

No is no...

Fine.

I thought you understand. I'm not proclaiming myself to be right. What burns me is you're siding with mistaken editors. This ignorance won't cost me anything but I do care about which film should reach which viewers as per their interests. 

I know I am not wrong in this case but okay... this happens. 

Facts are facts and no IMDb editor can change it. The problem is... Google does alter data according to it.

Huh. I lost.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Genres are by nature inaccurate except Sci Fi and Horror.
They are truly descriptive.
All other genres are subjective and are to be ignored.
Plot determines if I watch something.
A trailer too.
Genres are a waste of time generally.
I would not waste 1 second worrying on a genre description interpretation.
Of all my submissions over the years I have made 1 genre submission.
It was to remove a Horror Genre tag for a film made in 1898.
(Edited)
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Manish

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Well, thanks for District 9. But what about all the other films mentioned in the description.

Plus, here are two more movies missing the action genre. 

In Order of Disappearance: 190208-110131-479000
Source Code: 190208-110524-614000

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Manish

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Also, I am Legend (2007) is missing the action genre while it's undoubtedly an SF action-horror movie. Zombies are featured in action horrors and not just in some SF drama/thriller.

Please.

190209-155146-438000
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Nikolay Yeriomin, Champion

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While I can agree about that particular case, zombies are a more frequent element suggesting horror.
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Manish

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I didn't say zombies are featured in JUST action movies. I said action-horror, a subgenre/genre hybrid of action and horror. 
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Manish

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Now, let me bring you another case of idiocy. 

Drive (2011) is an action-drama film. Some fool made it into crime-drama.

This makes absolutely no sense. Only because it has a high rating and is indeed, an acclaimed movie, doesn't mean it has to be a crime film. It's an action movie, it is. IT IS.

Here's my submission receipt of adding the action genre: 190210-122336-294000
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Nikolay Yeriomin, Champion

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Okay, that is a very subjective claim. It is an action film (if a very meditative and slow-paced), but central plot has main characters get increasingly tangled in criminal activities and then getting out. That is a definition of "crime" genre in my book. 
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Manish

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That doesn't mean one should remove other genres. Your definition of a crime movie is right but almost every action film features criminality in some way or the other. Fine, I'm not asking to get crime deleted but action added to make it complete. That's it.
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Manish

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Come on, when is there going to be an action on this? I have submitted so many requests and yet only one has been processed till now. More the delay, more the discomfort.
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Vincent Fournols

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Manish,

Have you checked https://contribute.imdb.com/contributions/history (view details)?

My own 2 cents: you look like getting overexcited on really minor problems (my own appreciation of genres) and it has been explained to you over and over that genres are often subjective. But you mentioned that you will keep on struggling for it, but people do not understand what/why for...

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Manish

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Subjective doesn't mean you can twist the facts. If some vandal can easily vandalize the main genres and you know it's wrong, shouldn't you correct it? Why different rules for vandals and different for other editors? And yes, I'm not overexcited. It's no minor problem.
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Vincent Fournols

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So we obvioulsy do not share the same definition of subjectivity :D

Anyway, Have you checked https://contribute.imdb.com/contributions/history (view details)?
(Edited)
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Manish

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I just did. On the link you gave, it shows declined within seconds. And on the typical contribution page, it shows I should give it time to be processed.
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Vincent Fournols

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What is IMDb response if you click on "View contribution details" on a rejected submission?
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Manish

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Guess what, there's no explanation!
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Vincent Fournols

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That is quite surprising. Could you please share a screen clip?

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Manish

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Vincent Fournols

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Thanks.
Well, I deduct from this that keyword editing is too uncertain for rejection to be justified. And/or maybe the film has been protected against further genre addition.
At least I learned something!!
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Manish

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Nevertheless...
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Manish

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By this logic, every film on IMDb is protected against genre addition. How the hell can they decide it within seconds. This has clearly not been seen by the editors.
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Manish

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Hurrah... this case will be unresolved forever.

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