Add Mixtec language for Roma (2018)

  • 6
  • Problem
  • Updated 5 months ago
  • Solved
Alfonso Cuarón's Roma (2018) is in Spanish, Mixtec, English, Japanese, and some other unnamed indigenous languages, but Mixtec is not supported and therefore cannot be added to the list of the languages of the film.

Please add Mixtec to the supported languages.
Photo of Nardog

Nardog

  • 27 Posts
  • 10 Reply Likes

Posted 11 months ago

  • 6
Photo of Michelle

Michelle, Official Rep

  • 12839 Posts
  • 9846 Reply Likes
Hi Nardog -

Thanks for reporting the missing language, I have now forwarded your request to the applicable team and as soon as I have an update I will let you know here.
(Edited)
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 6611 Posts
  • 8053 Reply Likes
Photo of Michelle

Michelle, Official Rep

  • 12836 Posts
  • 9846 Reply Likes
Hi Peter -

Thanks for posting the additional links.  We do have an open ticket to include this missing language, however, there are system challenges that make adding these new additions more complicated, so these requests are still pending and will be added once our tech teams address the technical limitations.
(Edited)
Photo of Nardog

Nardog

  • 27 Posts
  • 10 Reply Likes
I see that now it says "North American Indian", but I'm having difficulties believing that's something people who speak languages like Mixtec or people like Cuarón can appreciate. I get that there are not a lot of movies in Mixtec so you might not want to hard-code each of the hundreds of languages spoken in the Americas, but couldn't it at least be "Indigenous" instead of "Indian"?
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7261 Posts
  • 9458 Reply Likes
I cannot imagine it would hurt that much to hard-code every real world language that has a significant presence in at least one well-known movie. Regardless, I might suggest using "Indigenous North American" instead of "North American Indian", for wherever it would be used to describe the languages spoken by people of tribes indigenous to anywhere in the Americas north of the Panama Canal.
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 6585 Posts
  • 8021 Reply Likes
There are already several specific indigenous languages listed, such as Navajo or Maya, so it should be possible to add more of them.

I'm also not sure North American Indian is the accurate term for a language originating in Mexico: "North American Indian languages, those languages that are indigenous to the United States and Canada and that are spoken north of the Mexican border."
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Nort...
(Edited)
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1121 Posts
  • 1387 Reply Likes
I get that there are not a lot of movies in Mixtec so you might not want to hard-code each of the hundreds of languages spoken in the Americas
I understand the point you're making, but I disagree. IMDb should record the language spoken in a film. Whether a language is only used in 1 film or in 1 million should not matter.

That being said, I think "North American Indian" is NOT a language nor a language group and should therefore be deleted from the database. Of course I could very well be wrong and a staff member can explain why it actually IS a language (or language family/group).
Photo of Vincent Fournols

Vincent Fournols

  • 2901 Posts
  • 4888 Reply Likes
I second Marco's views above.
Photo of Pencho15

Pencho15

  • 1312 Posts
  • 1136 Reply Likes

I just came here to ask the same thing, I'm Mexican and while I don't speak Mixtec I do think the use of a generalized group to include this language as well as many other is kind of offensive to the people that do speak it and to the culture it represents. Languages are very different from each other to be all grouped together like this just as we would not accept that French, Spanish or English to be refered as "Western European Language".

I'm glad there are more requests to add Mixtec as the right language and I want to add my voice to those.

Years ago I asked for a similar correction with Erendira Ikikumari, a Mexican film spoken in Purepecha, and there was no problem adding it even as it remains the sole one in that language.


And while we are at it, I think it would be good to completely delete North American Indian as a language and correct Le jour avant le lendemain to whathever language it is actually spoken in.
(Edited)
Photo of Pencho15

Pencho15

  • 1312 Posts
  • 1136 Reply Likes

It's been four months since this was originally posted. Roma has won three Oscars, but Mixtec is still not added as a language for the film.

The only change that has been made is changing 'North American Indian' (not a language nor a valid family or group of languages) to Central American Indian Languages (still not a language, nor a valid family or group of languages) and in this case probably a bigger mistake since Mexico is part of North America, not Central America, and Oaxaca, were Mixtec is spoken, is not on the border with Guatemala or Belize and thus has no relation to the languages actually spoken in Central America.

Please correct this already and add Mixtec as the correct language spoken in the film. It is a language used by almost half a millon persons.
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 6611 Posts
  • 8053 Reply Likes
I submitted the change from North American to Central American based on the categorization found here, for instance, which groups Mexico with Central America rather than North America, linguistically speaking:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Amer...
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Meso...

I agree it would be better to add Mixtec. Let's remember this was said to be a technical problem, not a policy decision.
Photo of Will

Will, Official Rep

  • 3909 Posts
  • 4966 Reply Likes
Hi all,

But isn't "mixtec" a term used to encompass many languages as opposed to being a language in and of itself? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixtec_language

If that is the case then adding it as a language in its own right doesn't seem like the correct course of action.
Photo of Vincent Fournols

Vincent Fournols

  • 2901 Posts
  • 4888 Reply Likes
For what it's worth: when watching the movie on Netflix in France, it uses 2 different subtitles: a standard one and one between brackets. At the very first occurrence, it states that the subs between brackets are for Mixtec...
Photo of JasonL

JasonL

  • 2 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
http://remezcla.com/features/film/alfonso-cuaron-roma-interview-mixtec-subtitles/

It's Mixtec.  If this is a technological hurdle and takes a lot of work to update, then the goal is to be able to change it more easily to whatever it should be.  In six months if they ask to change it to Oaxaca it would be great if it wasn't so difficult.  But for right now the correct answer is Mixtec.
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 6610 Posts
  • 8052 Reply Likes
I also saw the language identified on screen as Mixtec (Mixteco).

It's true that it's described as a group of languages, but it may be the closest identification we have.

The language list already includes several groups of languages.
Photo of Pencho15

Pencho15

  • 1312 Posts
  • 1135 Reply Likes
Regarding the different languages in a family, there is a Goverment institute in Mexico called INALI (Instituto Nacional de Lenguas Indígenas or National Institute of Indigenous Langauges) that considers 68 different languages spoken in Mexico.

Mixtec is one of them (the full list is here), and therefore it is valid to consider it as an independent language as that is the way it is officialy treated in Mexico.

Indeed there are regional variations, with different degrees of variations among them, and which indeed should be considered independent languages. But identyfing each of them is a titanic task that has not even been acomplished by academics in the country.

The case of Mixtec is the same as nahuatl, another Mexican indigenous language which actually refers to a group of similar tongues, but nahuatl is considered as a single language at the IMDb and Mixtec can be treated the same way.

Purepecha and Mayan are two other tongues in the same situation at the database.

If you want to add the specific Mixtec language spoken in the film, it is most likely Southwest Central Mixtec based on the fact that it is the language spoken in Tlaxiaco, the town were Yalitza Aparicio was born, and thus the one she would have learned, but I can't be 100% certain about this.

The name I'm giving in a literal translation from Spanish, but I have not found it called like that in any English source.
While Wikipedia claims the language spoken in Tlaxiaco is Ñumi Mixtec, this is not supported by the information given at INALI which I take as more reliable.
Photo of Nardog

Nardog

  • 27 Posts
  • 10 Reply Likes
That very Wikipedia article says it's in a dialect continuum. The line between dialect and language is never clear because all languages are in constant change and diffusion. Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian are essentially the same language from a linguistic/typological point of view, but are often treated as different languages for political reasons as are on IMDb, while the Arabic spoken in Saudi Arabia and that in Morocco are both treated as one language even though they may not be as mutually intelligible as, say, Spanish and Portuguese. The point is, the boundary is never clear and there is no way to be consistent about this; but IMDb has already admitted many broad classes of languages into the list of languages.

JasonL: "If this is a technological hurdle and takes a lot of work to update, then the goal is to be able to change it more easily to whatever it should be."

Couldn't agree more. Perhaps the right way to go is to make it possible to manually enter a language not available in the predefined set, just like in the occupation of a crew member.
(Edited)
Photo of Will

Will, Official Rep

  • 3909 Posts
  • 4966 Reply Likes
Thanks for the feedback all, I've passed this on to our technical team now.

Regards,
Will
Photo of Pencho15

Pencho15

  • 1312 Posts
  • 1135 Reply Likes
I have seen that Mixtec has finally been added as a spoken language in Roma. Thanks
Photo of JasonL

JasonL

  • 2 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
I see it too!  That is excellent news.  Great work all. 

Thank you IMDb!
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1124 Posts
  • 1394 Reply Likes
I'm very happy to see that Mixtec has been added to Roma. If I click on it, I get to a page saying no titles have Mixtec listed as a language, but I guess that'll just take some time. (especially since I am using the old and semi-supported reference view).
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1124 Posts
  • 1394 Reply Likes
If I click on it, I get to a page saying no titles have Mixtec listed as a language, but I guess that'll just take some time.

I still see this. (https://www.imdb.com/search/title?primary_language=qmt&title_type=feature). Do other people see this as well?
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 6610 Posts
  • 8052 Reply Likes
This seems to be because the link uses the primary_language operator, which only lists titles where that language is listed first in the language data.

The advanced title search now also includes Mixtec and instead uses the normal languages operator. Three titles are returned, including Roma:

https://www.imdb.com/search/title?lan...

This distinction between these two link types isn't documented anywhere to my knowledge, but I have noticed it before.
Photo of Marco

Marco

  • 1124 Posts
  • 1394 Reply Likes
Thanks a bunch Peter, I did not know that.