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The Robert Pattinson board (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo...) is being targeted by what I assume is multiple trolls. Pretty much every single on-topic thread we put up is reported and eventually (within two to three days) is deleted by IMDb staff. Today we had about 10 to 12 threads deleted. This happens over and over again.
These threads are completely on topic, there's nothing wrong with them, nothing reportable about them AT ALL. Just normal conversation about projects, interviews he's done, articles, etc.
I know false reporting is against IMDb's terms of service, but if they're going to delete the threads anyway, what options do we have? To say that it's getting beyond ridiculous at this point is an understatement.
Help? How can we stop this?
These threads are completely on topic, there's nothing wrong with them, nothing reportable about them AT ALL. Just normal conversation about projects, interviews he's done, articles, etc.
I know false reporting is against IMDb's terms of service, but if they're going to delete the threads anyway, what options do we have? To say that it's getting beyond ridiculous at this point is an understatement.
Help? How can we stop this?
Posted 7 years ago
Dan Dassow, Champion
Pikabo ICU,
I was not aware of this very sinister toll behavior. I cannot fathom why anyone would engage in such juvenile behavior.
Emperor made this suggestion that I support.
"Smokejumping" moderators to fight fires on the worst forums
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
Another possibility is to put problem Message Boards on moderation. All messages and reports of abuse would go through a human moderator. However, this would not prevent someone from stalking a user on this message board and reporting a totaling unrelated post.
I was not aware of this very sinister toll behavior. I cannot fathom why anyone would engage in such juvenile behavior.
Emperor made this suggestion that I support.
"Smokejumping" moderators to fight fires on the worst forums
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
Another possibility is to put problem Message Boards on moderation. All messages and reports of abuse would go through a human moderator. However, this would not prevent someone from stalking a user on this message board and reporting a totaling unrelated post.
I know, it's the strangest thing and to think it's adults.. It's head shaking behavior for sure.
I guess as sites get more efficient at controlling 'troll" activity, the "trolls" have to get more creative. Sad..
Anyway, moving on... I agree Emperor's suggestion is a very good idea! So is having problem boards monitored by mods. If a board has a certain amount of reports it could be flagged & then monitored..
Problem is- these ladies have been dealing with malicious deletions for a LONG time so I wonder if there is some way to "turn off" the automatic deletions?
If the board could have the deletions suspended until a "real person" could take a peek at what's being reported?
Or there should be a way for the admins to look at the history.. On my forums I have/had a log to see who reported what and what got deleted. That might answer who the serial reporters are so they can be warned and/or deleted..
Such an unnecessarily, immature mess.
I would normally just tell the people to ignore it but this group of ladies puts a lot of effort into updating that board & keeping things on topic- I hope something can be done to stop all the bogus reporting considering it violates the TOS.
I guess as sites get more efficient at controlling 'troll" activity, the "trolls" have to get more creative. Sad..
Anyway, moving on... I agree Emperor's suggestion is a very good idea! So is having problem boards monitored by mods. If a board has a certain amount of reports it could be flagged & then monitored..
Problem is- these ladies have been dealing with malicious deletions for a LONG time so I wonder if there is some way to "turn off" the automatic deletions?
If the board could have the deletions suspended until a "real person" could take a peek at what's being reported?
Or there should be a way for the admins to look at the history.. On my forums I have/had a log to see who reported what and what got deleted. That might answer who the serial reporters are so they can be warned and/or deleted..
Such an unnecessarily, immature mess.
I would normally just tell the people to ignore it but this group of ladies puts a lot of effort into updating that board & keeping things on topic- I hope something can be done to stop all the bogus reporting considering it violates the TOS.
Dan Dassow, Champion
We can continue to ask IMDb to provide moderation for problem message boards. Unfortunately, moderating an active message board would be very resource intensive. IMDb would not likely allocate staff time to patrol message boards, even it it were a limited number. It would have to be a trusted user, such as Pikabo ICU.
No idea if that's an option, then.
I don't think we need a person spending their time patrolling the board, tbh. We get very few active usual-type trolls, and when we do, we're pretty good at ignoring them.
We just need someone to put their eyeballs on a deletion request before hitting the button. This automated system is killing us.
I don't think we need a person spending their time patrolling the board, tbh. We get very few active usual-type trolls, and when we do, we're pretty good at ignoring them.
We just need someone to put their eyeballs on a deletion request before hitting the button. This automated system is killing us.
bluesmanSF, Champion
I would suggest doing the following.
Post a message that is completely on topic, non-offensive, and that could not be considered, in any way a violation of any terms and that no one should/could argue with, such as an opinion about the actor or a performance of his.
Bookmark the thread. Watch it to see if it gets deleted. Then send a message, with a link to the thread/post, to the staff via the Help Desk http://www.imdb.com/helpdesk/contact_... simply recommending they look into it because you feel user/users are abusing the report abuse system.
They won't respond, other than to refer to relevant help pages, or discuss the situation or any user's status. But, they'll likely place the user on their ignore list so that all of that user's reports are permanently ignored.
I wouldn't make a habit of using that, nor reporting in general, as it might make them think it's a report war and all users accounts, including yours, might get sanctioned.
Post a message that is completely on topic, non-offensive, and that could not be considered, in any way a violation of any terms and that no one should/could argue with, such as an opinion about the actor or a performance of his.
Bookmark the thread. Watch it to see if it gets deleted. Then send a message, with a link to the thread/post, to the staff via the Help Desk http://www.imdb.com/helpdesk/contact_... simply recommending they look into it because you feel user/users are abusing the report abuse system.
They won't respond, other than to refer to relevant help pages, or discuss the situation or any user's status. But, they'll likely place the user on their ignore list so that all of that user's reports are permanently ignored.
I wouldn't make a habit of using that, nor reporting in general, as it might make them think it's a report war and all users accounts, including yours, might get sanctioned.
bluesmanSF, Champion
Then you've alerted staff and they might not agree with your assessment of what is going on. You might just avoid the board for a while. Staff doesn't much like getting in the middle of report wars. The boards, also, are fairly low priority areas of the site. Most users visiting the site are not here to chat on message boards.
I think they'd have to be crazy not to agree with my assessment. This isn't a reporting "war", because myself and the other people on the board aren't reporting anyone.
When 20 to 30 totally innocuous on-topic threads with topics like "Maps to the Stars filming now" and "New interview in German GQ" get deleted PER WEEK, there's a problem.
When 20 to 30 totally innocuous on-topic threads with topics like "Maps to the Stars filming now" and "New interview in German GQ" get deleted PER WEEK, there's a problem.
bluesmanSF, Champion
Really? Then what did, "We tried that last year with zero results" mean?
Yes, there's a problem...always has been, always will be. Today, that board, tomorrow another...on and on...
This, by the way, is why staff doesn't comment. Those complaining are never satisfied with any answer or recommendation...the argument never ends.
Good luck.
Yes, there's a problem...always has been, always will be. Today, that board, tomorrow another...on and on...
This, by the way, is why staff doesn't comment. Those complaining are never satisfied with any answer or recommendation...the argument never ends.
Good luck.
Zero results is an exaggeration. We would take down our urls, and report them as specified when they were deleted. As I'm sure you're aware, probably 90% of those were never even looked at. Eventually I'm sure some of them would be, socks would be "dinged" for reporting inappropriately.
Deletions would then slow and finally stop...at this point alerting the trolls that their IDs were no longer reporting, so they start new IDs and the whole thing starts over again.
And unfortunately, with this new system, it is my understanding that the option to report in this manner is gone. Only "private" matters are supposed to be reported at that link.
Deletions would then slow and finally stop...at this point alerting the trolls that their IDs were no longer reporting, so they start new IDs and the whole thing starts over again.
And unfortunately, with this new system, it is my understanding that the option to report in this manner is gone. Only "private" matters are supposed to be reported at that link.
bluesmanSF, Champion
re: "it's my understanding that the option..it gone"
Your understanding is wrong. And, by the way, that type of report is a private matter. So, you're twice wrong.
Your understanding is wrong. And, by the way, that type of report is a private matter. So, you're twice wrong.
bluesmanSF, Champion
Quick question...are there actually any real on topic discussions on that board?
I just opened a dozen threads and none of them contained any useful relevant discussion of the actor. Just links to pics, other stuff...even one that showed a Tweet that was completely unrlated (isn't twitter for seeing tweets?).
Many times when this "problem" comes up, I look at the board and see it's filled with people camped out there using it as a chat room. Had you considered that maybe the reports of abuse are correct and that the board is not a hangout for a few, but a place for all, for when they have a question or want to have a discussion about the actor or his work?
I just opened a dozen threads and none of them contained any useful relevant discussion of the actor. Just links to pics, other stuff...even one that showed a Tweet that was completely unrlated (isn't twitter for seeing tweets?).
Many times when this "problem" comes up, I look at the board and see it's filled with people camped out there using it as a chat room. Had you considered that maybe the reports of abuse are correct and that the board is not a hangout for a few, but a place for all, for when they have a question or want to have a discussion about the actor or his work?
Now that is a slab of irony if ever I've seen one. -_-
The system is *partially* automated. If you abuse the system long enough your account will be actioned. If you open multiple accounts, you will eventually run out of verification methods, (as administration will eventually catch up with you).
Your position is not to tell IMDb how to run their own site. Your position (if you so choose to post on the site), is to keep your posts and threads within the scope of the site rules and regulations, resist the temptation to 'fight the trolls', do not treat the film message board for a specific actor as a chat board/fansite and finally, to listen to valid and sincere advice when it is proffered.
Now tell me, was that obtuse?
The system is *partially* automated. If you abuse the system long enough your account will be actioned. If you open multiple accounts, you will eventually run out of verification methods, (as administration will eventually catch up with you).
Your position is not to tell IMDb how to run their own site. Your position (if you so choose to post on the site), is to keep your posts and threads within the scope of the site rules and regulations, resist the temptation to 'fight the trolls', do not treat the film message board for a specific actor as a chat board/fansite and finally, to listen to valid and sincere advice when it is proffered.
Now tell me, was that obtuse?
Considering we know that the same individual troll can have many accounts over several years, the system is flawed. We have had, time and time again, threads deleted, no links, no pictures just discussion about Pattinson's career.
No system can be perfect, we are asking if anything can be done and if we can be of service.
Considering you are continuously choosing to ignore these points, yes, I believe you are being deliberately obtuse.
No system can be perfect, we are asking if anything can be done and if we can be of service.
Considering you are continuously choosing to ignore these points, yes, I believe you are being deliberately obtuse.
Considering the users of the Robert Pattinson board seem to be adopting the changings to posting habits that I have suggested here, I believe that whilst you may see me as being deliberately obtuse, you have finally seen the wisdom of my words and are following my advice. This pleases me.
To see you swallowing your pride, looking in the mirror and seeing where the partial fault lays with yourselves, is very heartening.
Now that you have a cleaner slate, a positive attitude and recognize/respect the site rules and regulations for what they are , administration are perhaps in a position to assist you.
Well done.
To see you swallowing your pride, looking in the mirror and seeing where the partial fault lays with yourselves, is very heartening.
Now that you have a cleaner slate, a positive attitude and recognize/respect the site rules and regulations for what they are , administration are perhaps in a position to assist you.
Well done.
Actually I personally still dismiss your thoughts on the matter regarding the Terms and Conditions and will maintain that legitimate threads are being deleted by trolls for no other reason than to troll, because that's what they do. To be perfectly frank, your smugness here is rather pathetic, not that I expected anything less from an arrogant person like yourself.
ETA: Reading down the page has confirmed many posters suspicions that you are a troll that has been a problem on Pattinson's board... So, I'm done with you.
ETA: Reading down the page has confirmed many posters suspicions that you are a troll that has been a problem on Pattinson's board... So, I'm done with you.
I agree threads are probably being reported for no other reason than to troll. I don't agree these threads were legitimate, in so far as they did breach site Terms and Conditions. Now that you are following my advice, the threads have become legitimate, meaning site administration can now assist you with your future complaints.
I will ignore your childish insults because I understand you hate being told what to do and as such, cannot help but lash out when you are. Normally a sign of immaturity and authority issues, but live and let live.
ETA: Believe what you will if it helps you cope with your varying problems and issues.
I will ignore your childish insults because I understand you hate being told what to do and as such, cannot help but lash out when you are. Normally a sign of immaturity and authority issues, but live and let live.
ETA: Believe what you will if it helps you cope with your varying problems and issues.
I will list the first 30 threads here and inform you of any possible breaches of site rules
1. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to an alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
2. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
3. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
4. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains another link to the same alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
5. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
6. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
7. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (nothing but links to gif pictures featured on various alternate sites. Could be considered flooding. No discussion. Deletion justifiable)
8. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... ((contains yet ANOTHER link to the same alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
9. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains numerous links to twitter and tweets from twitter. Deletion justifiable)
10. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (originally off topic discussion of new message board layout. Now a discussion of trolls and Kristen Stewart fans. Referred to as "fvckwit Kristen fan(s)" Deletion totally justifiable)
11. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (thread created to encourage board readers to 'vote' for Robert Pattinson to win some sort of online poll. Two polls linked. Reportable for any number of reasons.)
12. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (game thread for guessing release of film trailer. Though on-topic in subject, off-topic in nature and should be on the games board, which was created for such things. Deletion justifiable)
13. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to an alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
14. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (discussion of "socks" and "trolls". Off -topic and deletion justifable)
15. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (a discussion of all films. As this was posted on a board specific to one particular actor, deletion is justifiable. Film General is the best board for this thread.)
16. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (Contains the FOURTH link to the same alternate entertainment website and as above, could be deleted by IMDb for steering traffic away from IMDb. It begs the question, does this alternate entertainment website, designed for sole discussion of Robert Pattinson, have its own message boards/forums?)
17. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (a thread to showcase pictures of Robert Pattinson sourced from mostly the SAME alternate entertainment website linked numerous times in other thread topics. No discussion. Just pictures. Deletion justifable).
18. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to a commerical clothing wear website and seemingly promoting clothing that Robert Pattinson wears. Deletion justifable for numerous reasons).
19. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to an alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
20. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... ( (contains another link to the same alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (see above. Same site. Same link. Deletion now justifable for possible flooding)
21. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (link to alternate entertainment website, though URL apprears toi be broken. Deletion justifiable on the grounds that the thread offers nothing)
22. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (same site. Same link. Now the 9th or 10th link to the alternate entertainment website in the first 20-25 threads. Board flooding now a justifable reporting option, as is advertising/spam)
23. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (as above. Same site. Deletion justifable for flooding and advertsing/spam)
24. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (link to promotional magazine article for Robert Pattinson's new fragrance/perfume. The 3rd or 4th such thread discussing this topic. Loosely on-topic and probably okay)
25. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (another link to another magazine article about the new Robert Pattinson fragrance/perfume. A pattern is emerging)
26. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (link to article concerning Robert Pattinson's late-night activities on the social circuit. An alternate entertainment website and deletion probably justifable).
27. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
28. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (yet another link to yet another alternate entertainment website with yet another article/promtion concerning Robert Pattinson's new fragrance/perfume. Deletion justifiable).
29. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (same alternate site linked over a dozen times in 30 threads. Same reasons for justifable deletion)
30. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic
So, the verdict:
7 threads could be considered totally or partially on topic and in my opinion, not in breach of site rules and regulations
the remaining 23 threads are reportable for a variety of reasons, with the most prominent reason being advertising/spam, (a concerted effort by only a couple of users to seemingly promote 2 alternate entertainment websites) and flooding (for continually posting links to these two websites).
There is very much a 'chat board' mentality in place. If this is an indication of the normal board status, (and I suggest that it is, as most of the off-topic and questionable thread topics indicate they are being re-posted, presumably after deletion), well, in my opinion, I do not think you have much reason to complain.
My advice:
- stop the spammed linking to alternate entertainment websites, (two in particular)
- stop the 'chat room' threads, discussing off topic, 'general' subjects and fighting 'trolls' and 'socks'
- stop the advertising and spam threads, promoting online polls, games and commercial interests
- stop the repetitive 'gif'. 'twit' and pic' threads, as they do not involve discussion and often link to sites that contain malware, (at best), or steer IMDb users to alternate entertainment sites.
- stop the 'troll fight' mentality that seems to permeate many threads. Fighting trolls sees you lose the fight as soon as you begin.
- start discussing more Robert Pattinson films on the Internet MOVIE Database. If you wish to discuss the fluff and guff loosely associated with his life, perhaps the Robert Pattinson fansites that are being continually linked would be a better venue for your 'discussions'
All this is just my opinion and in no way represents IMDb's official view on the matter.
1. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to an alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
2. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
3. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
4. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains another link to the same alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
5. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
6. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
7. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (nothing but links to gif pictures featured on various alternate sites. Could be considered flooding. No discussion. Deletion justifiable)
8. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... ((contains yet ANOTHER link to the same alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
9. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains numerous links to twitter and tweets from twitter. Deletion justifiable)
10. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (originally off topic discussion of new message board layout. Now a discussion of trolls and Kristen Stewart fans. Referred to as "fvckwit Kristen fan(s)" Deletion totally justifiable)
11. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (thread created to encourage board readers to 'vote' for Robert Pattinson to win some sort of online poll. Two polls linked. Reportable for any number of reasons.)
12. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (game thread for guessing release of film trailer. Though on-topic in subject, off-topic in nature and should be on the games board, which was created for such things. Deletion justifiable)
13. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to an alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
14. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (discussion of "socks" and "trolls". Off -topic and deletion justifable)
15. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (a discussion of all films. As this was posted on a board specific to one particular actor, deletion is justifiable. Film General is the best board for this thread.)
16. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (Contains the FOURTH link to the same alternate entertainment website and as above, could be deleted by IMDb for steering traffic away from IMDb. It begs the question, does this alternate entertainment website, designed for sole discussion of Robert Pattinson, have its own message boards/forums?)
17. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (a thread to showcase pictures of Robert Pattinson sourced from mostly the SAME alternate entertainment website linked numerous times in other thread topics. No discussion. Just pictures. Deletion justifable).
18. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to a commerical clothing wear website and seemingly promoting clothing that Robert Pattinson wears. Deletion justifable for numerous reasons).
19. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (contains a link to an alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
20. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... ( (contains another link to the same alternate entertainment website. Would not surprise if IMDb chose to delete it for taking traffic away from IMDb)
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (see above. Same site. Same link. Deletion now justifable for possible flooding)
21. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (link to alternate entertainment website, though URL apprears toi be broken. Deletion justifiable on the grounds that the thread offers nothing)
22. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (same site. Same link. Now the 9th or 10th link to the alternate entertainment website in the first 20-25 threads. Board flooding now a justifable reporting option, as is advertising/spam)
23. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (as above. Same site. Deletion justifable for flooding and advertsing/spam)
24. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (link to promotional magazine article for Robert Pattinson's new fragrance/perfume. The 3rd or 4th such thread discussing this topic. Loosely on-topic and probably okay)
25. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (another link to another magazine article about the new Robert Pattinson fragrance/perfume. A pattern is emerging)
26. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (link to article concerning Robert Pattinson's late-night activities on the social circuit. An alternate entertainment website and deletion probably justifable).
27. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic)
28. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (yet another link to yet another alternate entertainment website with yet another article/promtion concerning Robert Pattinson's new fragrance/perfume. Deletion justifiable).
29. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (same alternate site linked over a dozen times in 30 threads. Same reasons for justifable deletion)
30. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo... (on topic
So, the verdict:
7 threads could be considered totally or partially on topic and in my opinion, not in breach of site rules and regulations
the remaining 23 threads are reportable for a variety of reasons, with the most prominent reason being advertising/spam, (a concerted effort by only a couple of users to seemingly promote 2 alternate entertainment websites) and flooding (for continually posting links to these two websites).
There is very much a 'chat board' mentality in place. If this is an indication of the normal board status, (and I suggest that it is, as most of the off-topic and questionable thread topics indicate they are being re-posted, presumably after deletion), well, in my opinion, I do not think you have much reason to complain.
My advice:
- stop the spammed linking to alternate entertainment websites, (two in particular)
- stop the 'chat room' threads, discussing off topic, 'general' subjects and fighting 'trolls' and 'socks'
- stop the advertising and spam threads, promoting online polls, games and commercial interests
- stop the repetitive 'gif'. 'twit' and pic' threads, as they do not involve discussion and often link to sites that contain malware, (at best), or steer IMDb users to alternate entertainment sites.
- stop the 'troll fight' mentality that seems to permeate many threads. Fighting trolls sees you lose the fight as soon as you begin.
- start discussing more Robert Pattinson films on the Internet MOVIE Database. If you wish to discuss the fluff and guff loosely associated with his life, perhaps the Robert Pattinson fansites that are being continually linked would be a better venue for your 'discussions'
All this is just my opinion and in no way represents IMDb's official view on the matter.
C&P thank you for your thorough research. However, it doesn't offer any solution for the situation on Pattinson's board. Unfortunately for us your suggestions make sense only if an actual person would check the reported thread to verify validity of report but it is not the case. I have seen on-topic threads without any links or a link to some informational website like Wiki being deleted along with threads that contained link(s) to multiple websites. The problem is it doesn't make a difference what is posted in those threads since IMDb employs automated system to respond to reports. It means that no one is actually checking if reported thread is indeed in violation of IMDb posting rules. Thus deletion of any thread is not based on actual violation, it is based on a certain number of reports of a thread. Automated system registers incoming reports, when reports reach a certain number (I am sure trolls know what it is), the thread in question gets flagged and deleted. The trolls are very familiar with this glitch in the system and they abuse it for their own amusement. What they do is in direct violation of IMDb rules, they disrupt normal function of the community and drive regular posters away from the website. Newcomers don't stay with IMDb either because they find dead or troll infested boards. This type of trolling activity is well known and impacts more than one board, and as result it creates a bad rep for IMDb as a troll infested place within other on-line communities. I am sorry IMDb is not taking speedy measures to fix the problem since it's a great site in general. Thought, as we can see it has it's shortcomings. Hopefully, having this new medium for voicing our problems will draw a proper attention of IMDb admins and they would try to resolve the issue in the near future. Thanks again for trying to help us.
It was my pleasure, moviejunkie, despite the occasional ruffled feather :-)
I agree with you that the abuse report system is at least partially automated. So yes, if a troll wishes to run the gauntlet, he/she can have legitimate threads removed, (it has happened to us all at one time or another). However, I disagree that nothing can be done if you post a legitimate, on-topic, breach-free thread topic and it gets reported. As pointed out by BluesmanSF elsewhere in this discussion, should you have a copy of the URL of the thread, (and under the circumstances, I strongly advise this) , you can forward that to the Help Desk for a please explain, whereupon it will be reviewed and appropriate action taken.
Is it a perfect system? No. Is it probably the best that IMDb can come up with, considering the huge numbers of users on its boards? I believe so.
Good luck :-)
I agree with you that the abuse report system is at least partially automated. So yes, if a troll wishes to run the gauntlet, he/she can have legitimate threads removed, (it has happened to us all at one time or another). However, I disagree that nothing can be done if you post a legitimate, on-topic, breach-free thread topic and it gets reported. As pointed out by BluesmanSF elsewhere in this discussion, should you have a copy of the URL of the thread, (and under the circumstances, I strongly advise this) , you can forward that to the Help Desk for a please explain, whereupon it will be reviewed and appropriate action taken.
Is it a perfect system? No. Is it probably the best that IMDb can come up with, considering the huge numbers of users on its boards? I believe so.
Good luck :-)
We used this method of saving url and reporting deletions to help desk last year. What happened to quite a few posters as a result of reporting their report privileges were suspended but it didn't stop thread deletions. The reporting might have slowed it down a bit but didn't eliminated it. Trolls made new false accounts and resumed their activity. This whole process is just a part of the game for them and while they are entertained, the quality of the board suffers, users are leaving, IMDb gets less hits and money.
It seems like with the current reporting system in place regular posters have minimal to no support from administration against trolling since the system deals with every report (malicious or valid) in the same way. Also, the set-up of the system doesn't take into account that trolls have advantage of using multiple sock accounts in comparison to normal posters who have only one account and risk losing their reporting/posting privileges instead of getting any remedy in such situation. It's always better to ignore trolls on individual level but if their activity disrupts the function of the whole community, they shouldn't get free pass. IMDb and any other respected forums have rules against trolling for a good reason.
So the bottom line, the reporting method is less than ideal for regular posters and it doesn't solve the problem of deletion. And I firmly believe IMDb can and should do better. :) It can be a challenge to solve the issue on a technical level but it is a challenge that is interesting and very beneficial to multiple parties.
In the meanwhile, they could incorporate the idea of "Smokejumping" moderators. I think having such mods may even PREVENT a lot of trolling activities if trolls know they'll have no game and lose their multiple accounts in the process. It should make them at least more cautious. Some of them may decide that IMDb is too boring and not safe for trolling and migrate to some other forums where they can troll without restrictions. Stranger things have happened :)
It seems like with the current reporting system in place regular posters have minimal to no support from administration against trolling since the system deals with every report (malicious or valid) in the same way. Also, the set-up of the system doesn't take into account that trolls have advantage of using multiple sock accounts in comparison to normal posters who have only one account and risk losing their reporting/posting privileges instead of getting any remedy in such situation. It's always better to ignore trolls on individual level but if their activity disrupts the function of the whole community, they shouldn't get free pass. IMDb and any other respected forums have rules against trolling for a good reason.
So the bottom line, the reporting method is less than ideal for regular posters and it doesn't solve the problem of deletion. And I firmly believe IMDb can and should do better. :) It can be a challenge to solve the issue on a technical level but it is a challenge that is interesting and very beneficial to multiple parties.
In the meanwhile, they could incorporate the idea of "Smokejumping" moderators. I think having such mods may even PREVENT a lot of trolling activities if trolls know they'll have no game and lose their multiple accounts in the process. It should make them at least more cautious. Some of them may decide that IMDb is too boring and not safe for trolling and migrate to some other forums where they can troll without restrictions. Stranger things have happened :)
That's not true, movie. No one had their reporting privileges suspended.
It did slow things down, but then they would just create new socks and start over again.
It did slow things down, but then they would just create new socks and start over again.
tracy, I speak of what I know. If I am mistaken in my interpretation, it's entirely different matter. Regardless of who's right or wrong, things remain the same. We don't have a solution for the troll problem. And I am truly looking forward to the day we have one.
Emperor, Champion
It's a new & incognito method of trolling a board who's members you don't like.
Indeed, my only contention would be that it isn't new - I'm pretty sure this thing has been happening since the report systems were put in place. It is pretty much the most obvious way to game the system to your advantage and is what determined trolls or naysayers/haters move onto after first flooding a forum with negative/abusive threads only to see them removed. As the system is semi-automated it'd be easy for a determined group of people or a sociopath with far too much time on their hands (and a dozen sock puppet accounts) to get what they want deleted.
The question is: if this is so obvious and has happened before (I'm pretty sure this kind of thing has been reported a few times on here), why is there no way to deal with this - report/ignore is useless in this case (as they are the ones on the wrong end of the reporting). Of course, staff don't want to get into a "he said, she said" situation trying to mediate claim and counter-claim (and counter-counter-claim) but there should be a way to report problematic deletions in a way that'd allow staff to check the threads - it should be obvious if malicious sanctions are being used to disrupt forum activity and then sanctions can be applied to the reporters, not the reportees. BluesmanSF's suggestion is, to the best of my knowledge, the best way of achieving this, so do make sure you try this.
As DD has said, this would be a situation where smokejumping moderators might be deployed (so +1 the suggestion if you think it'd help) as disruptive behaviour, apparently over a long period of time is making it impossible for the forum to function - in fact a brainstorming for forums where trouble would flair up would probably have brought up the James Patterson forum on a shortlist.
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
It would seem Emperor has either fallen asleep due to carnivore exhaustion, or died as a result of carnivore exertion :-/
Emperor, Champion
Or fallen asleep as it was very late.
I know. I was attempting jest.
Please disregard. I am stupidest when I try to be funny
Please disregard. I am stupidest when I try to be funny
Emperor, Champion
I'll be sure to remember that, and then remind you if it at some inopportune moment. ;)
Something to look forward to :-p
bluesmanSF, Champion
The point is...even if they're just reporting it to mess with you, they cannot get in trouble for it if the report is valid (or many of them are). The system tracks accuracy. So, if you're just posting a link to another site, the staff probably won't go so far as to check it out, they'll use the cautious route and just delete it. You've, then, given more power to the reporter. The system sees it as a good call. It dings your good status and empowers them. So, if 7 of every 30 posts could get deleted for good cause, they have the numbers on their side.
I really don't see that you'll agree...but that's the way it is. But, my suggestion would be to follow Christian and Proud's advice.
I've seen boards, by the way, that are 100% on topic. So, I'm calling you on that one.
I wish you well, though.
I really don't see that you'll agree...but that's the way it is. But, my suggestion would be to follow Christian and Proud's advice.
I've seen boards, by the way, that are 100% on topic. So, I'm calling you on that one.
I wish you well, though.
Well, we'll do what we need to do. We don't have to link to those sites. In fact, we can copy/paste the content and discuss it that way if we have to.
We just thought it was rude to do so, as the general guiding principle online is to always link to your source....but you know.
I disagree about your "good cause" (really, you would delete a link called "Robert Pattinson filming Maps to the Stars in LA" because it contained a link?), but I suppose everyone has their quirks.
In all....it is the pattern of behavior that is the issue, not the fact that a single thread someone thought was off topic and reported.
We just thought it was rude to do so, as the general guiding principle online is to always link to your source....but you know.
I disagree about your "good cause" (really, you would delete a link called "Robert Pattinson filming Maps to the Stars in LA" because it contained a link?), but I suppose everyone has their quirks.
In all....it is the pattern of behavior that is the issue, not the fact that a single thread someone thought was off topic and reported.
Regretfully, but not surprisingly, 8 of the 30 threads I linked to earlier have been removed by site administration. It should be noted by regulars of the Robert Pattinson board that the threads removed all fall into the 'deletion justifiable' category , which consisted of 23 of the 30 threads listed. Not a coincidence that not a single thread I believed 'on topic' has been removed. That should tell you something and perhaps how you can ensure future threads are not vulnerable to false abuse reports.
Also, before I go, a piece of advice to the user called susie5552003. This thread that you have posted http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo..., is against site terms and conditions, as I understand them. Even though you have posted a topic that seemingly relates to Robert Pattinson's fragrance campaign, it will be rather obvious to any site administrator that cares to look that you are, in fact, reposting the link to the online popularity poll, that site administrators have already seen fit to remove.
Susie, this is how it stands, (as far as I understand the site terms and conditions). Linking IMDb users to an online poll and encouraging them to vote multiple times in an effort to 'game' the results falls into the category of either 'advertising and spam' or perhaps 'chain letter'. Reposting said link after site administration have already removed it, is considered 'flooding'. Should the administrator who originally removed the thread see it again, he/she could action your account more seriously.
I don't believe IMDb sees its forums as a platform from which individuals or groups can mount vote-stacking campaigns. Just a friendly word of advice.
Also, before I go, a piece of advice to the user called susie5552003. This thread that you have posted http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1500155/bo..., is against site terms and conditions, as I understand them. Even though you have posted a topic that seemingly relates to Robert Pattinson's fragrance campaign, it will be rather obvious to any site administrator that cares to look that you are, in fact, reposting the link to the online popularity poll, that site administrators have already seen fit to remove.
Susie, this is how it stands, (as far as I understand the site terms and conditions). Linking IMDb users to an online poll and encouraging them to vote multiple times in an effort to 'game' the results falls into the category of either 'advertising and spam' or perhaps 'chain letter'. Reposting said link after site administration have already removed it, is considered 'flooding'. Should the administrator who originally removed the thread see it again, he/she could action your account more seriously.
I don't believe IMDb sees its forums as a platform from which individuals or groups can mount vote-stacking campaigns. Just a friendly word of advice.
Sigh.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the poll thread, but Mr. I'm So Right (are you CommanderKrill, by the way?) ...you're wrong. So, before you pat yourself in the back too hard and pull a muscle, wait a month. Because threads that even you think are AOK will all be deleted sooner or later.
They always are.
Because they're reporting to troll, not because they are massively offended by our threads.
You fail spectacularly fail to get the point.
And did you happen to notice which users had their threads deleted? Hmmmmm. Dior threads by other users still on the board with no problem. Why is that, I wonder? LOL.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the poll thread, but Mr. I'm So Right (are you CommanderKrill, by the way?) ...you're wrong. So, before you pat yourself in the back too hard and pull a muscle, wait a month. Because threads that even you think are AOK will all be deleted sooner or later.
They always are.
Because they're reporting to troll, not because they are massively offended by our threads.
You fail spectacularly fail to get the point.
And did you happen to notice which users had their threads deleted? Hmmmmm. Dior threads by other users still on the board with no problem. Why is that, I wonder? LOL.
Commander Krill? Is that a code or something?
The reason you call me "Mr. I'm So Right" is because you a begrudgingly acknowledging that what I am saying, for now at least, is correct. Thank you for this.
I have not failed to see any point. I know what is happening. The fact that 8 threads disappeared in the space of 24 hours showcases this. But I cannot stop it and site administration cannot stop it if the threads are in breach of site rules. My advice is:
- stop the dramatics
- stop the habitual board etiquette that sees threads liable to abuse reports and thus justifiably removed
- stop looking for a fight at every opportunity
- stop the fixation with trolls
- start playing smart.
You do all these things and site administration then have cause to act on your behalf, because you have now placed yourself in a position beyond reproach.
I am not your enemy here. You are your enemy, (at this point in time). So, take the spotlight off yourselves and shine it on those who, at the moment, are successfully targeting you from the shadows.
The reason you call me "Mr. I'm So Right" is because you a begrudgingly acknowledging that what I am saying, for now at least, is correct. Thank you for this.
I have not failed to see any point. I know what is happening. The fact that 8 threads disappeared in the space of 24 hours showcases this. But I cannot stop it and site administration cannot stop it if the threads are in breach of site rules. My advice is:
- stop the dramatics
- stop the habitual board etiquette that sees threads liable to abuse reports and thus justifiably removed
- stop looking for a fight at every opportunity
- stop the fixation with trolls
- start playing smart.
You do all these things and site administration then have cause to act on your behalf, because you have now placed yourself in a position beyond reproach.
I am not your enemy here. You are your enemy, (at this point in time). So, take the spotlight off yourselves and shine it on those who, at the moment, are successfully targeting you from the shadows.
First off, it's hard not to be "fixated with trolls" when the trolls are playing games with the board every single day. We're human beings. Occasionally we discuss the problem and how to resolve it. Because its frustrating as hell.
We're not looking for fights. Do you bother reading the threads? We're discussing the topic at hand.
I absolutely agree about playing smart. The automated removal of threads means there's nothing we can do to stop it. Right now. But if changing a few things about how we post means we have an easier time getting them dinged then we'll do it.
Passing this information on to the posters will have to involve a thread and a discussion, though... *gasp*
But I still say that it's a hole in the system and IMDb should think about how to fix it. Because automated deleting IS being abused. And there is no effective way to stop it.
We're not looking for fights. Do you bother reading the threads? We're discussing the topic at hand.
I absolutely agree about playing smart. The automated removal of threads means there's nothing we can do to stop it. Right now. But if changing a few things about how we post means we have an easier time getting them dinged then we'll do it.
Passing this information on to the posters will have to involve a thread and a discussion, though... *gasp*
But I still say that it's a hole in the system and IMDb should think about how to fix it. Because automated deleting IS being abused. And there is no effective way to stop it.
You post according to the site rules and the system works fine.
I am glad to see you are preparing to play smart. Good luck :-)
I am glad to see you are preparing to play smart. Good luck :-)
STOP IT! Just STOP!
For the love of all that is good & reasonable STOP!
Act like adults for heavens sake!
This thread has devolved into nothing but arguing & antagonism.
Now we have two "warring members" from another board going at it here! SMH!
No staff is going to read through this mess & attempt to decipher what the real problem is now.
Christian and Proud- You're acting like NEITHER! I am loathe to call out another poster but you should have taken your leave from this thread LONG AGO!
Offer your advice and move on-
What you've done is NOT help or advice it's baiting & ARGUING!
It is NOT against the TOS to post a link to an outside site- that is neither flooding nor spamming NOR advertising one's own site to drive traffic to it!
Linking a source has always been acceptable. PERIOD!
Links to wiki & youtube are posted CONSTANTLY on the "I Need To Know Board" for starters-
If IMDb didn't want links to "outside sources" they could EASILY block them and only enable internal linking.
BOTTOM LINE: These deletions are done by the automated system!
It is being gamed by a small group using MULTIPLE user ID's! (Understand?) That means they can make numerous BOGUS reports and NOT get investigated & caught for the bogus reports!
This is obviously a huge problem- that's why so many of the regulars have put their two cents into this thread.
I am not a regular on that board but I have kept an eye on it as I knew they were having issues with trolls- I was there daily when the new board went live, trying to help some of the regs out with the changes.
These ARE NOT tweens or Twilight fans that are having petty fights and baloney! They are adult women-
They have one of the nicest most organized boards for any actor/actress on this site. They know how to ignore trolls- I've seen it!
They came here for HELP- and they did NOT get it!
At this time, sadly, I don't believe there is much that can be done to fix this issue.
It's a weakness in the automated system.
Until such time that moderators are empowered, I can't see an easy solution, frankly I can't see ANY solution.
If there's a way to "turn off" automated thread deletions, I would recommend it for that board- but the odds of a staff member ever reading through this thread, at this point, are about 0%.
TRACY, SAMMIE, SUSIE,MOFTOWERS & OTHERS:
Until such time as they deploy mods I have no answer for you. Due to the shear size of this site & the number of boards- it has to be an automated system dealing with the tens of thousands of reports they receive daily.
I suggest you continue to save your valuable threads & repost them. I know that's NOT the answer you were hoping for, I wish I had a better one but at this time, I just don't.
My sincerest apologies!
Pika
For the love of all that is good & reasonable STOP!
Act like adults for heavens sake!
This thread has devolved into nothing but arguing & antagonism.
Now we have two "warring members" from another board going at it here! SMH!
No staff is going to read through this mess & attempt to decipher what the real problem is now.
Christian and Proud- You're acting like NEITHER! I am loathe to call out another poster but you should have taken your leave from this thread LONG AGO!
Offer your advice and move on-
What you've done is NOT help or advice it's baiting & ARGUING!
It is NOT against the TOS to post a link to an outside site- that is neither flooding nor spamming NOR advertising one's own site to drive traffic to it!
Linking a source has always been acceptable. PERIOD!
Links to wiki & youtube are posted CONSTANTLY on the "I Need To Know Board" for starters-
If IMDb didn't want links to "outside sources" they could EASILY block them and only enable internal linking.
BOTTOM LINE: These deletions are done by the automated system!
It is being gamed by a small group using MULTIPLE user ID's! (Understand?) That means they can make numerous BOGUS reports and NOT get investigated & caught for the bogus reports!
This is obviously a huge problem- that's why so many of the regulars have put their two cents into this thread.
I am not a regular on that board but I have kept an eye on it as I knew they were having issues with trolls- I was there daily when the new board went live, trying to help some of the regs out with the changes.
These ARE NOT tweens or Twilight fans that are having petty fights and baloney! They are adult women-
They have one of the nicest most organized boards for any actor/actress on this site. They know how to ignore trolls- I've seen it!
They came here for HELP- and they did NOT get it!
At this time, sadly, I don't believe there is much that can be done to fix this issue.
It's a weakness in the automated system.
Until such time that moderators are empowered, I can't see an easy solution, frankly I can't see ANY solution.
If there's a way to "turn off" automated thread deletions, I would recommend it for that board- but the odds of a staff member ever reading through this thread, at this point, are about 0%.
TRACY, SAMMIE, SUSIE,MOFTOWERS & OTHERS:
Until such time as they deploy mods I have no answer for you. Due to the shear size of this site & the number of boards- it has to be an automated system dealing with the tens of thousands of reports they receive daily.
I suggest you continue to save your valuable threads & repost them. I know that's NOT the answer you were hoping for, I wish I had a better one but at this time, I just don't.
My sincerest apologies!
Pika
Your righteous indignation might carry a little more weight were it not for the fact that threads complaining about the same problem on the Religion board were declared "Not A Problem" and "Archived" based on nothing but the comments of at least two of the trolls who are to blame for the problem in the first place. "Christian and Proud" and BluesmanSF are two of the trolls whose actions have been the cause of at least 80% of the topics complaining about the trolls. They watch this board just waiting for someone to complain about their actions just so they can amuse themselves by offering "advice" about how to deal with their own trolling. If you can't do anything to correct the problem then just admit it. But what you and everyone else on this site does is worse than doing nothing, you actively encourage the trolling by ignorantly not being able to recognize that the trolls themselves are the ones offering "advice" and then allowing legitimate complaints about these fools to be discarded and declared "not a problem".
Dan Dassow, Champion
Pika, Thank you.
Emperor, Champion
Amen, although it is probably too late for this thread, which I had to stop reading days ago (they don't pay me enough for that, OK they don't pay me anything, which makes it even easier).
As you say, there are no solutions, which is increasingly looking like a problem that needs addressing itself. I've already offered mine:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
I am also wondering if some automated appeals process might be worth suggesting. Unfortunately, I imagine it would get swamped by people who have had their posts correctly removed, so those really needing this might not get heard. Perhaps flagging it up here might be sufficient, although if this kind of thing happens to every thread, I'm concerned that the problem would get drowned out. I don't hold out hopes for this thread staying open much longer as it is being driven off-topic.
As you say, there are no solutions, which is increasingly looking like a problem that needs addressing itself. I've already offered mine:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
I am also wondering if some automated appeals process might be worth suggesting. Unfortunately, I imagine it would get swamped by people who have had their posts correctly removed, so those really needing this might not get heard. Perhaps flagging it up here might be sufficient, although if this kind of thing happens to every thread, I'm concerned that the problem would get drowned out. I don't hold out hopes for this thread staying open much longer as it is being driven off-topic.
I do not see why this thread would be archived or removed as it offers a great deal of helpful information to those who may be experiencing similar problems on other boards.
Sammie
moftowers
Sammie