Could we please have a separate "Colorist Department"

  • 311
  • Idea
  • Updated 1 month ago
The role of Colorist and related jobs such as color timer, conforming, finishing, versioning, HDR etc. really need to be in their own category. It can be very hard to find who did the grading and finishing on a project, colorists are scattered between editorial, visual effects and maybe some other departments at the moment. Also listing Colorists in editorial is very misleading and confuses people about the responsibilities of the colorists and associates. For a good description of possible colorist duties see https://coloristsociety.com/role-of-the-colorist
Thank you for your support
Photo of Kevin Shaw

Kevin Shaw

  • 7 Posts
  • 22 Reply Likes

Posted 9 months ago

  • 311
Photo of Marco Valerio Caminiti

Marco Valerio Caminiti

  • 4 Posts
  • 29 Reply Likes
I completely agree on that. Having a Color Department section would help making things clearer and avoiding confusion.
Thanks Kevin!
Photo of Anastasia Shepherd

Anastasia Shepherd

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
Couldn’t agree more. IMDb listings are so importan, and currently colorist credits are so disorganized that it’s hard to see how many films a colorist has worked on.
(Edited)
Photo of David Warner

David Warner

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
Coloring / colorists perform a unique and vital role in the creative process.  It is a specialist role apart from the larger production personnel.  You may see any large number of various credits for a particular type artist, (VFX, modelers, production assistants, etc) at the end of a movie.  There's usually only one or two colorists....
Photo of Mike Shaw

Mike Shaw

  • 1 Post
  • 2 Reply Likes
It wouldn't be before time! Let's do it!
Photo of chris

chris

  • 3 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Great Idea Kevin !
Photo of Vincent Taylor

Vincent Taylor

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
Absolutely agree.
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22396 Posts
  • 26671 Reply Likes
IMDb should be consistent with where colorists are credited.
As you are mainly applying the bulk of your work (physical hands on) in post production on the finished product. So being in the editorial credits is most logical.
Consistency is imperative. A separate category will yes fix the misplacing of the credit in the wrong sections. But it is not needed.

Now, this is my opinion. While it differs from yours, please DO NOT rebut my view for two reasons.
ONE
I will not reply. (Maybe!)
TWO
It takes away from the pure replies for the idea of "For" or  "Against" the idea. Debating or replying or disagreeing just takes away from people seeing the pure replies.
Avoid temptation.
Do not rebut what I have said.

Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22396 Posts
  • 26671 Reply Likes
CGI People need a section of their own.
Camera People need a section of their own.
Boom People need a section of their own.
ADR People need a section of their own.
Production Assistants People need a section of their own.
Gaffer People need a section of their own.
They have been around a lot longer and deserve a section too.
This is not the first topic where someone want's a section of their own.

You all should be asking that the database be consistent in placement of your credits within "Editorial" or where ever you should have a consensus of choice to where you belong.

Asking for your own "Private Idaho" is unrealistic.

Ask for something that is doable. Consistent Placement!! 
Photo of Marco Valerio Caminiti

Marco Valerio Caminiti

  • 4 Posts
  • 29 Reply Likes
Ed Jones, I am sorry but your point of view makes no sense.
Sound Editing, Sound Design and even Visual Effects could be considered "Editorial Department" following your logic.
If we had to follow the "to alter = to edit" then almost anyone working on a fiction film should belong to the Editorial Department.
Here we are talking about recognising a department that already exists, not creating a new one.
You have the Camera and Electrical Department with their own Head of Department: the Director of Photography; you have the Visual Effects Department with their own Head of Department: the Visual Effects Supervisor; etc.
In post-houses the Colorist is de facto the Head of a Department to which Dailies Operators, Assistant Colorists, Dailies Colorists, Conformers and Deliverables Managers belong (the DIT is quite in the middle between this department and the camera one, and there are many other roles that could be included).
This is not about looking for attention, we are just asking to fix something that was badly structured in the first place.
It is not going to be a big change, not going to deeply impact our job, it would just make things more clear.
Peace :)
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22396 Posts
  • 26671 Reply Likes
Sound IS IN Sound where it belongs
Visual EFX is in Visual where it belongs. And so is the supervisor.
You're a Colorist, so you belong in Visual. But it is so clogged with credits that you selfishly want your own little island. By your logic you belong in visual. And in visual you should remain.
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22396 Posts
  • 26671 Reply Likes


To Kevin

"Colorist starts with looks management"
VISUAL
You belong in visual credits
Photo of Marco Valerio Caminiti

Marco Valerio Caminiti

  • 4 Posts
  • 29 Reply Likes
Man, you previously stated Colorists should belong in Editorial, now you say in Visual. These two departments structure is so misleading that, apparently, you ended up getting confused too.
Are you talking because you work in the industry or are you just getting obsessed with words and their meaning?
A department has a structure, the Colorist does not belong to the Visual Effects Department just like a Motion Graphic Designer does not belong to it. It is not strictly connected to the meaning of "Visual", of "Edit", of "Alter" or of whatever word you want to stick to to defend your no-sense (and changeable) position.
It is about roles, duties, hierarchy and communication.
Photo of Jesse Glucksman

Jesse Glucksman

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
That’s an interesting idea. I wouldn’t mind being in a separate department from editorial & VFX. I think a Finishing Department, in which the grade is a primary role, makes sense, though that may be confusing to the public because a lot of people might not know what Finishing is.
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
People do not know what Colorists are. Ask someone what a Gaffer is? They have been around a lot longer than you!
Photo of Craig Simonetti

Craig Simonetti

  • 3 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Ha, there we have it G
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
Actually one night I was in a meeting with an EP and his PA discussing some VFX work when our DP and head CGI artist who were there also disagreed. It took the AP and the CP and their PA's to break up the argument.

A not so true story C.S.
Signed
Mr. Ed
Oh, Wilbur!
Photo of Margus Voll

Margus Voll

  • 3 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
This is really must as color is big part of getting it ted together and leaving it out seems not very nice.
Photo of Stéphane Ma

Stéphane Ma

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
It would indeed be good to have a separate department for colorists! Great idea Kevin.
Photo of Davis Alfano

Davis Alfano

  • 1 Post
  • 4 Reply Likes
This is what we need.
Photo of Paul  Hanrahan

Paul Hanrahan

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
If camera, lighting and grips are seperated then it seems similar to have edit, vfx and D.I. finnishing to be seperated. D.I. Finnishing would include all involved in color grade and final online process. Dalies colorists and color scientist included too i assume.
Photo of Nikolai Waldman

Nikolai Waldman

  • 2 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
Yes it would be nice to have a separate category where we also could add conform (which has to know about color and camera formats), trailer colorist, HDR colorist (in case someone else did the SDR version. And it would be nice if we could get an option to move the credits from the editing department or vfx department to the new group.
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
And it would be nice if we could get an option to move the credits from the editing department or vfx department
You can
Please read
Correcting existing data
Photo of Aurora Shannon

Aurora Shannon

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
I agree with the suggestion.


Currently my credits are split across editorial and visual effects, both are misleading and the separation causes one half to be less visible.


In regards to category, a lot of colourists work on pre and production, so film finishing would not be inclusive of this.


Personally I would prefer ‘Colour’ for all colourists, colour scientists, and assistants on look dev, on-set, dailies, di etc.
(Edited)
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
You belong strictly in Visual Credits
Photo of Patrick Inhofer

Patrick Inhofer

  • 1 Post
  • 9 Reply Likes
I've signed this petition because, in the narrowest reading of the role of Colorist, the person fulfilling this role is currently scattered across multiple IMDB categories. Colorists may be found under Camera, Editorial, Editing, and VFX. In part, this is due to confusion by Producers uploading credits being unsure where to place the Colorist. Also, this craft can be supervised under the lead of any of those categories - or none of them, often working primarily and reporting directly to the Director, Producer, Executive Producer, or DP.

But no matter which department is directing the Colorist - color grading is its own craft, with its own unique skill set, terms, and challenges.

The problem on IMDB is that its frequently used to specifically research and identify the Colorist on a specific title or series. Under the current system, it can be nearly impossible to identify Colorist(s) on large productions. They can be buried under multitudes of VFX artists or spread across a half-dozen craft categories.

The fact that modern digital Colorists can be considered under so many different Craft categories, because of their impact on each, should bolster the case for Colorists being in their own unique category listing in IMDb.
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
color grading is its own craft, with its own unique skill set, terms, and challenges.

And NO ONE else has any unique skill set, terms, and challenges?
Just You?
Silly
You belong in Visual Only
(Edited)
Photo of Nikolai Waldman

Nikolai Waldman

  • 2 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
And nobody cares what you think. It looks like you have a reputation for comments like this. We get it, you don't agree.
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
If no one cares as you say, then you would have never replied. Or did that logic somehow escape you?
Photo of Ed Jones(XLIX)

Ed Jones(XLIX)

  • 22332 Posts
  • 26548 Reply Likes
This is a topic that comes up occasionally. A urgent immediate self need. If the database enacted every request then you would be buried in the three hundred or so categories. Then you would ask to be grouped back again where you were in the first place. In visual EFX or Editorial. What you need is a consensus of what category you "Should" be in. Not the creation of a new category.

Photo of Luca Nervegna

Luca Nervegna

  • 1 Post
  • 4 Reply Likes
Really good idea! totally agreed
Photo of Sally Shamas

Sally Shamas

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
Finally! Thank you Kevin for your dedication!
Photo of walter volpatto

walter volpatto

  • 1 Post
  • 6 Reply Likes
Yes please!
Photo of mhob

mhob

  • 1 Post
  • 4 Reply Likes
This is a great idea! Colorists should be listed in title opening credits in movies too, right along side of the DP, director, and actors. Not hidden in the end credits.
(Edited)
Photo of Yov Moor

Yov Moor

  • 1 Post
  • 4 Reply Likes
I agree too Kevin. Thks for the idea and the move.
Photo of Valerio Liberatore

Valerio Liberatore

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
I totally agree! I think its a really good idea!
Photo of Maulin Mrx

Maulin Mrx

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
Thanks Kavin for begin new era
Photo of Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin)

Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

  • 3569 Posts
  • 4930 Reply Likes
As much as I agree with Kevin Shaw, he hardly began anything with this suggestion: it's not the first of this exact formulation and making a separate department for color correction is not of immediate concern for IMDb, as of now. 
Photo of matthew/max horton

matthew/max horton

  • 2 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
It might not be the first of this exact formulation, but it is an idea that won't move forward without discussion. That's how things change for the better.
Photo of Eboy

Eboy

  • 1779 Posts
  • 2329 Reply Likes
Just out of curiosity Max. Are you saying that you deliberately submit credits to ”wrong” department? Or do you mean that there are ”visual effects colorist”, and then there are more traditional colorists?

I see you’ve a lot of ”colorist/colourist” credits in Visual Effects department. Are you usually submitting them yourself (the production companies doesn’t submit them?)? None of these are ”uncredited” credits?
Photo of Scott S

Scott S

  • 1 Post
  • 2 Reply Likes
Long overdue. Makes sense and will clear up a lot of confusion.
(Edited)
Photo of Gaetano Lombardi

Gaetano Lombardi

  • 1 Post
  • 2 Reply Likes
My father has been doing this job for over 43 years and during my 23 years as a colorist I often heard these words "the colorist must have his own identity and not be confused in adjacent or similar production willing roles" in a nutshell I find myself very much in agreement with this proposal. I hope that this topic can be really well received.
Photo of Warren Eagles

Warren Eagles

  • 1 Post
  • 5 Reply Likes
Makes good sense and will make the colorist role much easier to define for producers
Photo of Manuel L

Manuel L

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
I think this is a very good idea, but in my opinion we should define better the name of the department and all the roles that would belong in it
Photo of Kevin Shaw

Kevin Shaw

  • 7 Posts
  • 22 Reply Likes
I agree - that needs to be done in order to implement the proposal. Lets start the list here.
I do feel Color Department is the obvious choice, but open to suggestions: 
Job descriptions listed so far by myself and others are: (please add/comment as you see fit)
Colorist/Colourist
Digital Colorist
DI Colorist
DI Finishing
Supervising Colorist
Mastering Colorist
Assistant Colorist
Dailies Colorist
On Set Colorist
Conform
Color Timer (lab)
Finishing Artist
HDR Colorist
Restoration Artist
Look Development
Color Scientist
Trailer Colorist

Photo of Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin)

Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

  • 3569 Posts
  • 4930 Reply Likes
Margus Voll, great thanks for info, never heard of them. 
Photo of Marco Valerio Caminiti

Marco Valerio Caminiti

  • 4 Posts
  • 29 Reply Likes
Kevin Shaw, the author of the post, is actually the President of the CSI
Photo of Lajos Pataki

Lajos Pataki

  • 3 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
Yes, as they say. CSI . Join!
Photo of Donato Casale

Donato Casale

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
The point is the enhancement of color treatment in the last 15 years. It is one of the most involved in the digital explosion of these last years.  

Today it's not a matter of chemical/technical workflows but there is a whole world of people involved in development of styles, looks, technical decisions and relative assistant, supervisors etc. Now we have lots of people involved in color's pipelines and we still get LOTS of different color pipelines. 

We need today a Color category because today EXIST a color category. 

my two cent.
Photo of Manoj Vanga

Manoj Vanga

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
Color Department makes sense. It should be added to the list
Photo of Marc Wielage

Marc Wielage

  • 1 Post
  • 9 Reply Likes
I'm in complete agreement with Kevin Shaw and the other members of the Colorist Society International. Colorists are long overdue in being recognized and treated as integral members of the post crew on films, scripted TV shows, reality shows, and other broadcast & theatrical releases. Colorists serve in a far more complex capacity than just the lab color timer of the old days, and deserve more visible recognition.
Photo of Jan Klier

Jan Klier

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
I very much support this. It's a separate workflow and skill set and should not be bundled. It would help support working colorists to have them properly broken out. Proper IMDb credits can be helpful in standing out in the industry as credentials.
Photo of Simone Siesto

Simone Siesto

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
I completely agree with that!!!
Photo of Rowan Cloete

Rowan Cloete

  • 1 Post
  • 3 Reply Likes
Plus one! The role of the colourist has become well defined, and perhaps it is only that is a new discipline that we don't have a catagory for it yet - time to make it right.