Error with #191002-041904-334000

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My credit for Ad Astra keeps getting declined when it most certainly meets the criteria. #191002-041904-334000.

I was part of the loop group but my voice was used specially as the SpaceCom voice. It is the second voice you hear in the film and is in 7 scenes with Brad Pitt. Here is a link to what I sound like: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1M-VCohLEb/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link I have submitted it as (voice) and (uncredited). Again, it does meet the guidelines so the declination makes no sense. Please review.
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D.C. Douglas

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Posted 2 months ago

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Phil G

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Uncredited voice credits are generally not eligible. See these guidelines.
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Arcturus SaDiablo

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Not a valid argument, IMO.  Define "uncredited".  These people make the English voices for a lot of anime.  Their work is just as valid as any other.  Heck, even Netflix shows me the voice list for languages I don't listen to at the end of their product.   It would be a great service for people to know who is doing this very important localization work.
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Bulma PunkRocker

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Arcturus SaDiablo it is a very valid argument what Phil G. stated. He posted a link to the IMDb Guidelines for voice credits. We all follow it.
I think it's unfair that only English dub actors are allowed to be listed, but that'swhat the guidelines states, so I don't submit Latin American anime dubs (those actors and actresses are very famous).

Cheers.

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I'll take the generally out. Uncredited voice credits in the cast listings are not allowed.
Your credit belongs in the miscellaneous crew section.
As you can see in the picture below you are a "character performance artist"'
There are several other descriptions that may be used.
Loop Group is a valid entry also. ADR may be used.



These credits are from Ad-Astra itself.

(Edited)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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A note to IMDb Staff.........
An audit of Mr. Douglas' page might be in order. There are some questionable credit issues.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0235006/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
He has a lot of English redub credits that are full credits that may not meet eligibility requirements as they violate rule #4.


(Edited)
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Phil G

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Ed, the guidelines you're quoting explicitly allow listing voice credits for the English language version of animated titles. It's mentioned in #4 that you've quoted and made even clearer in another point a little further down that section:
The only exceptions to this rule are animated titles and videogames, where we may list both the original-language cast and the English-language cast, if applicable.
Elsewhere on the same page, there's even mention of a special attribute for exactly this purpose:
(voice: English version) - Someone is credited in an animated title or videogame on the USA English-language release of a title originally released in another language.

With this in mind, which of Mr Douglas' credits do you believe to be ineligible, and why?
(Edited)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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All of the Japanese titles that are missing uncredited attribute.
Too many to list.
Just look.

(Edited)
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Phil G

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Do you have evidence that he didn't have an on-screen credit on the English-language version of those titles?
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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As I said an audit is in order. It is up to IMDb's determination what belongs and what does not. I know those Japanese titles have full Japanese voice credits, so it is not a USA release, otherwise there would be no Japan talent cast listed.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Do you have evidence that he didn't have an on-screen credit on the English-language version of those titles?

Repeating...........Up to IMDb for determination.
End of replies.
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Phil G

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IMDb have already determined when they wrote the rules and included the exception I've quoted above for precisely this situation. Voice cast from both the original language version and the English language version are considered eligible for animated titles.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Hunter vs Hunter.
Actors from countries with 2 additional different languages have muscled their way into the original main cast (Japan). Confusing the title. Three different people are credited with the same role. This confuses users of the database when these credits are added violating policy. That is why the policies are in effect. Accuracy. This page is inaccurate.


(Edited)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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If I was a Japanese voice actor, I would be livid that actors from a foreign country displacing my credits on titles from my home country.
Arrogant behavior.
(Edited)
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Phil G

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Any Japanese (or other) voice actors unhappy with the situation are free to ask IMDb to change the rules. But those credits appear to be perfectly valid under the current rules.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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And I believe a misinterpretation is happening.
Wait for IMDb to clarify.
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Bulma PunkRocker

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I agree with Ed Jones (XLIX) in this case, the "original" English voice actors should be credited, I don't think it's appropiate to credit in the cast list every single English re-dub voice actors. They can be added as miscellaneous.
We don't credit the Japanese re-dub voice actors, we follow the rule of cast list as seen on-screen in the original release, I think that rule should apply to English voice actors too.
Cheers.

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Phil G

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I confess I haven't done a full audit of these titles, but from a quick scan through the two titles Ed included in his screenshot, I don't see a problem with them.

For both Hunter x Hunter and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, I see only two actors per episode for each character: the original language voice actor and an English voice actor. Which is precisely what the guidelines allow to be listed.

Am I missing something here?
(Edited)
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Arcturus SaDiablo

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Wow, who pissed in your breakfast cereal, Ed.  All I hear is reason to NOT give people credit for the work they do.  Great way to make IMDb less relevant to the industry.  Who wants to use a site that deliberately denies the work being done?
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Bulma PunkRocker

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Hello Phil G, I have to admit too that I haven't audited those series neither and my comment was based on Ed's screenshot without further analisys. It seems the credits are ok. Please excuse my mistake.

I have seen tough, even 3 different English voice actors for the same character in some Dragon Ball related titles. I thought this was the case.

What I think it's interesting about Ed's post is the fact that some English dub voice actors are indeed being shown in the main page, because they voice main characters, so they are actually displacing original Japanese voice actors in this case.
Since English foreign dub doesn't go with number order, it would be nice that the system kept the original credited cast too, but that's another issue.

Please excuae my English and my mistake.
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Marco

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Who wants to use a site that deliberately denies the work being done?

Nobody here said they agree with the current IMDb policy on this, they just stated that the current policy should be acted upon. I advise you to vote for Idea threads to change the policy: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/actress-voice-credits-in-violation-of-rule-4?topic-reply-lis...
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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A note to Mr. Douglas. I suggest you please read IMDb's rules before submitting credits that are ineligible any further.

https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/cast-acting-credits-guidelines/GH3JZC...

Thanks :):)
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D.C. Douglas

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if you change those other dub credits you'll have to do it for the whole anime industry as that's how those are credited industry wide.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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One Page at a time
I already found another.
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/actress-voice-credits-in-violation-of-rule-4?rfm=1&topic...
IMDb performs random audits of their own too.
You triggered this on your own.
(Edited)
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D.C. Douglas

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Well, aren't you kind. So, to whatever random IMDB person is going to fix all these anime dub credits, start here - https://pro.imdb.com/title/tt0388629/?ref_=search_search_result_1 Pretty much all the big names in this genre (who are guests at conventions around the US and other countries) are listed here. 
(Edited)
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D.C. Douglas

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Obviously I am being facetious. If anything, this highlights the need for a voice over section of casts. Miscellaneous makes no sense when fans look up these shows to se who the voices were for their favorite character.
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Simply Undrea

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Chiming in here for leaving things like this untouched. As someone who works in voice-over... this is the standard. This is how credits work for the ENTIRE section of the anime industry.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Go start an Idea thread.
Chime all you like there.
This will not help at all for this credit.
It will not stop staff from reviewing this persons credits.
Starting an Idea thread may help but I doubt it.
But please go make one Andrea. :):)
(Edited)
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D.C. Douglas

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Ed, the original answer to my question is reasonable and I'm fine with it. Your hall monitor behavior without thought of the actual industry you're talking about is what is at issue. Some folks may want whoever the IMDB employee is that's going to look at my credits or anyone else's to hear them. Never cool to try and silence opinion. I know you've been a contributor here for 10 years, so you may feel a sense of ownership (considering your prolific commenting and demeanor). I have been contributing here since 1998. I feel no sense of ownership but I do know the industry you're referring to and I think these comments are necessary.
(Edited)
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Simply Undrea

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Its Undrea.

& I never said staff shouldn't review credits. I'm here to comment so that you (and maybe other staff) who see this can know that this is an industry standard.

Altering these credits here & trying to enforce this same 'rule' on other profiles would be like trying to change the way that musicians and artists tracks are displayed on the Billboard record charts.

The Billboard charts meet a certain standard, no? (Again - for example - changing the charting rules would make waves in an entire industry.) Why attempt to change a widely known and respected standard?

I'm commening so you can hopefully understand the viewpoint from an actual industry professional who is working in VO and who knows that accurate credits can assist you in nailing the next gig.

I'm commenting to give nuance and perspective. Two people are trying to tell you about the current anime industry standard. I implore you to listen.
(Edited)
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Nathan

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Yea, no you’re in the wrong sir Gatekeeper. As someone who likes to look up actors in different things I hate it when roles are uncredited. This is exactly the reason I go other places to look up uncredited roles. Because you like to try to police actors who have roles in things you don’t want to give credit too.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Nathan Please Read Below.
I am correct./
And it is for reasons that "Help Actors"
Not Hurt them.
Thanks
:):)
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Bulma PunkRocker

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D.C. Douglas

if you change those other dub credits you'll have to do it for the whole anime industry as that's how those are credited industry wide.

Regarding factual mistakes on credits, it's a lot of work to audit and correct!!
I'm currently working with https://contribute.imdb.com/title/tt2576852/ (Kaguyahime no monogatari), where the English dub actors are listed first in number order (against IMDb Guidelines) and the few Japanese original voice actors are without number order, so I have to delete the number order for the English cast (they still are credited in the title page, but without a number order, since they weren't credited in the original Japanese theatrical release) and add a lot of Japanese actors with the proper number order. It's very time-consuming. But we choose to contribute, so no whining here, just commenting my experience (I have done this so many times), I wish all contributors follow the guidelines.

Please excuse my English, it's not my native language.

Cheers!



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corbenfan 84

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ok no not crediting people for their work is wrong i disagree sir very much
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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You miss the point. Credit is OK. It just is in the wrong category or has the wrong attribute. Please pay attention. No one is saying that credits be removed
Thanks
:):)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Addressing all who replied.
A. I have approximately 15 possible credits that I could put on IMDb. All uncredited. I don't.
B. I have done limited stand up work in nowheresville.....Denver.
C. I have an IMDb page (Ed Jones XLIX) that I would prefer that not be cluttered with "Puffed Up" full credits. So my page remains empty awaiting a fully credited credit.

D. If any individual were to try and verify these credits all of you have added by looking at titles they would not find them. So these uncredited credits do not interest me whatsoever. But all of you by listing your credits without adding an uncredited attribute makes your inclusion dubious and would lead one to wonder. It is best to be honest about your credits than to mislead in any way at all. Plus it delutes your actual acting credits. Read below.


To Mr Douglas: All those voice credits detract from your actual Acting Credits. I would shift them to misc crew where they belong. How much work may have you lost because your acting credits are lost in your avalanche of uncredited voice work? I'd want those to stand out alone. Makes no sense to me that you would not see that. To sit here and argue for retention of those credits is mind boggling. You could easily make reference in your biography to your many numerous voiceover works as illustrated below on your page in the misc crew section.

Without going through every credit in your acting credits and writing down as a notation the ones where you did not do voice work, how is one to know at a quick glance what you have actually acted in. Those voice credits hide your acting credits. A producer or casting director would just give up and move on.
You clutter your page. You pay for it in a reverse manner that you don't seem to be considering.
Cheers all
Ed
:):)

(Edited)
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D.C. Douglas

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I'm not going to comment other than to say I have lost work due to the inclusion of my anime and video game work is ridiculous. I actually booked 3 independent films  and was able to produce a SyFy film BECAUSE of them. Not to mention the 100+ conventions that booked me as a guest for the FANS of these voice projects (allowing me more income and travel around the world - I just returned from Brazil). In other words (and with all due respect), you do not know of which you speak in this regard.
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D.C. Douglas

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As for Jojo's and HunterXHunter, I was credited onscreen for those. Again, you're making a problem where there was none.
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D.C. Douglas

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As an example of fan interest in the actors who perform English VA work, here is how I was greeted in Brazil this weekend: https://www.instagram.com/p/B3hd9FhB-x9/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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As for Jojo's and HunterXHunter, I was credited onscreen for those. Again, you're making a problem where there was none.
Prove me wrong, show me a screen shot of the Japanese cast immediately followed by your credits for the English speaking cast as stated in the IMDb rules.
Thanks.
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D.C. Douglas

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You're quite offensive. I've not been contributing to IMDB for 30 years with NO issues to suddenly be treated like a some troll. My record speaks for itself. Feel free to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are like this. Try and be better. Goodbye.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I see. You cannot provide what I requested. So you have been bending the rules and have been displacing the real Japanese credits on titles.
Your credits belong in Misc Crew if you are uncredited on screen directly following first credited Japanese Voice Actors.
What makes you think that your credits should supplant theirs or be equally listed? Because your an American?
I'm truthful and raise a valid point. That IS NOT offensive.
TYVM
Screenshot please.
Thanks
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D.C. Douglas

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Actually, Ed, you're just coming off pedantic and aggressive. Your ignorance of the anime industry in America is quite apparent, but your humility is not.
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Mike Toole

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Here's the ending credit roll of Netflix's new ULTRAMAN series, episode 12. The original Japanese voice cast rolls first, crediting Shigeru Ushiyama as the voice of Edo. (It's the fourth from the top, if you don't grok Japanese.)
 


Now, here's the English credits, which appear afterwards.You'll see D.C.'s name there:


Like it or lump it, this is the standard practice for animation dubbing. It's not specific to the US, either, which is why Santi Ziesmier is beloved by Germans as the voice of Spongebob Schwammkopf, and why Japanese Trekkies are such ardent fans of Masaaki Yajima, who dubs Captain Kirk's voice. 

Also, as a 20-year professional in the anime business, this is an odd thing to quibble about. I've utilized the IMDB to research English-language performers for anime projects many times.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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You have proved my point with your submission. You cannot provide what I requested. So you have been bending the rules and have been displacing the real Japanese credits on titles.You are Not part of the original version cast. You are an addendum at the tail end after all other credits. Yes on screen credited, but not of the original cast.
A dubbing credit in another language that is not of the original origin.
Miscellaneous Crew Credit.
They DO NOT allow this in any form in cast credits. Otherwise the original cast can be lost in translation so to speak. You could have up to five or six actors credited for the same thing. The cast listing would be a nightmare. The original character goes to the original Voice actor. Period.
The rest belong in the misc crew.
Would like IMDb to weigh in but they will not read all of this post.
My interpretation still stands. Your credit violates Provision #4
Cheers
(Edited)
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Angela S.

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Please give Voice Actors ALL of their credits on EVERYTHING they work on. They deserve it for all their hard work. Fans who support them deserve to be able to find their work in order to continue supporting them. 

The suggestion that an English VA is somehow taking away from or "ripping off" a Japanese VA because they work on Anime is absurd. This assertion demonstrates that you know nothing of Anime. It further demonstrates that you are unaware that films & TV across the world are dubbed by VAs in their respective nations/languages, including *gasp* Anime.  
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Arcturus SaDiablo

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Then Provision #4 needs to be revisited and probably eliminated.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Again .......another person not paying attention. Not advocating removal. Advocating a location shift.
Pay attention please
Thanks
:):)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Arcturus SaDiablo

Start an Idea thread on the subject
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Arcturus SaDiablo

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Just as soon as you stop gate-keeping the topic, sure.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Or weigh in on this 4 year old IDEA POST

Suggestion for New feature: Voice Actors
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Just as soon as you stop gate-keeping the topic, sure.
Really?
Pretentious of you. Don' you think?
And now I will not address you further.
Have a............Day
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Angela S.

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Are you this remarkably condescending in everything you do? What is the point of you?
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Angela S.

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Are you this remarkably condescending in everything you do? What is the point of you?
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Phil G

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These credits are perfectly valid and correctly listed in the cast section. The submission guide is perfectly clear that voice credits for an English-language version of an animated title are an exception to the usual original-version-only rule:
4. Their work must be featured in either the original language version of the film or (for animated titles and videogames) on the USA English-language release
and a little lower:
...exceptions to this rule are animated titles and videogames, where we may list both the original-language cast and the English-language cast...
The Princess Mononoke example given in the guide also makes this very clear:
Yes, English-language voice of a character in a non-English language animated film... eligible to be listed as cast credits in the database
And if that's not enough, there's also an attribute for precisely this situation:
(voice: English version) - Someone is credited in an animated title or videogame on the USA English-language release of a title originally released in another language.

(Edited)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Irrelevant. All those examples are FOR ANIMATED FILM CREDITS! No Mention Is Made For Animated Television Series. Rule 4 applies.


See........All Film References

(Edited)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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If IMDb wanted these rules to apply to television, they should say so.
But they do not.
If they do apply then a re-write is in order to specifically allow the rules for film to apply to series television.
Until they do, my interpretation is valid.
If they clarify and comment here, that will be the end of it.
If you had been following this thread I have already stated it is time for us to all be silent and await for a reply by staff.
Lets all not misinterpret this any further and allow IMDb to clarify.
Thanks all
:):)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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One last thing your exception reference again makes a reference only TO FILMS.

Only the original voice actors can usually be credited. For example, on an Italian non-animated >>film<<, only the actors providing Italian voices on the original version of the >>film<< can be credited in the database. We won't list the actors providing French voices for the French release of that >>film<<. The only exceptions to this rule are animated titles and videogames, where we may list both the original-language cast and the English-language cast, if applicable.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Sorry to add one more item, but his screengrab above also does not meet rule 2. His cast credit does not immediately follow the original cast credits. It is an addendum trailer added after all credits which if you read below which disallows his credit in the cast. It belongs in misc crew.

2. They must have been credited in the cast section of the end titles (i.e. no 'background voices' or adr work). Additional Voice credits are permitted for animated titles or videogames as long as they are listed >>>>>within, or immediately after<<<<<, the main cast list.
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Phil G

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Every guideline I've quoted refers to 'animated titles', which does not in any way limit it to films. The examples are, of course, just examples and by the very nature of examples can't cover every possibility.

I see that 'be silent and await for a reply by staff' doesn't apply to you, since you've continued to post your own interpretation of the rules numerous times, claiming your interpretation to be fact.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I left out pertinent info.
My last reply said Sorry if you read it.
Wait for staff.
My interpretation is based on the omission of the word TV or television anywhere, but the word film is everywhere.
You are extrapolating a hypothesis based on assumption that TV is included.
I however am basing my statements on zero extrapolations.
Wait for clarification by staff.
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Bulma PunkRocker

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I'm sorry to interrupt, but regarding what Angela S. said :

Please give Voice Actors ALL of their credits on EVERYTHING they work on. They deserve it for all their hard work. Fans who support them deserve to be able to find their work in order to continue supporting them.

That would be great, but it would be virtually impossible to add every single voice actor for every language. Latinamerican voice actors are incredibly well known and liked all over, from Mexico to Chile, they have millions of fans, but they are not allowed to list they foreign dub credits.
Perhaps IMDb could create a specific section, I don't know. It would be nice to see all the voice actors work being recognized, not only the English ones.


To Ed Jones (XLIX), unless it is a Netflix original animated series/movie, no Japanese series/movies has English voice actors credited, as we both know. The English dub cast that is allowed to be listed is the one credited on-screen in the original English broadcast/release. I have to trust the English contributors on this one, because I cannot prove what's on-screen in the English versions, only the original Japanese ones.

Cheers.


(Edited)
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Marco

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That would be great, but it would be virtually impossible to add every single voice actor for every language.

It would certainly be a challenge, but currently, IMDb won't even let us try to achieve this minor miracle. Therefore I'd advise everyone who feels voice actors of all languages should be listed to vote for the Idea threads we have on this: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/actress-voice-credits-in-violation-of-rule-4?topic-reply-lis...
For the people in this thread who are also voice actors: I'd advise you to make sure your colleagues know about this issue with IMDb and let them voice their concerns here as well!

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Marco

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That would be great, but it would be virtually impossible to add every single voice actor for every language.

It would certainly be a challenge, but currently, IMDb won't even let us try to achieve this minor miracle. Therefore I'd advise everyone who feels voice actors of all languages should be listed to vote for the Idea threads we have on this: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/actress-voice-credits-in-violation-of-rule-4?topic-reply-lis...
For the people in this thread who are also voice actors: I'd advise you to make sure your colleagues know about this issue with IMDb and let them voice their concerns here as well!

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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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My five cents on this issue after following it for quite a while and see two sides there being frustrated.

Unfortunately, considering how most streaming services (like Netflix), do dubbing credits, they are are not eligible. Mainly because they are not really a part of the title in question, merely a supplement/part of the release: the way they bill them they are basically credits for alternate sound tracks. If you look at the screenshot provided by Mike Toole, Netflix always specifies "English version", making a point that as we see it, credits are not a part of original release, thus ironically, making dub credits uneligible by displaying them. It sounds like absurd, when you think about it, but logically it makes sense according to IMDb guidelines as most alternate version credits are not eligible, for now (hopefully not for ever). "English version" credits that we see as eligible in IMDb guidelines refer to cases of dubs done by TV station which have full credits on a strictly respective version of a title. "Provided original (English language) voice for an American animated film" is at what current rules of IMDb concur.    

And I'm saying that as a longtime advocate for introducing international version credits to IMDb because I find current position that only some  English version dubs are eligible (and not all of them, as we see in this case) rather discriminative, because foreign dubs in my humble opinion would've been a great addition to IMDb as well. For now they reside in cluttered and largely forgotten sections of "Other works" on each actor's pages, which now usually need serious rehauls because commercials and music videos previously displayed there are now eligible titles and therefore should be removed: something which is done rather slowly considering it's a recent change.

The problem is way deeper than with just voice actors, though: I'd say that a separate section to cover international version credits is also very much needed for cases in which international versions contain whole scenes filmed specifically for the release. Granted, it's not something we see often today, but it happened with quite a few important titles and respective credits/listings cannot be added properly, unless credited for some reason on most versions of the title. 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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how most streaming services (like Netflix), do dubbing credits, they are are not eligible. Mainly because they are not really a part of the title in question, merely a supplement/part of the release
This has been my point all along. I asked the O.P. for proof on a title of being credited in the main credits and he chose to provide the example you have just cited. Addendum's added after the fact.
Ineligible!