Grayson, Here is the original Ukrainian title card from "Idu do tebe..."

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This conversation has been merged. Please reference the main conversation: Someone keeps reverting changes to 'Language' and 'Original title' for the movie Idu k tebe... (1971)

Grayson,

This is a continuation of the earlier thread about this title, which, since it has been marked "Solved", will no longer be examined by managers. You can append this post to that thread when this actually is finally solved.

In closing that thread, you stated: "The title card has been shown to read “Idu k tebe” on screen and so that will be the primary title text we will display."

I repeatedly stated in the earlier thread that the original release in the Ukrainian SSR in late 1971 had a Ukrainian title card. But I did not actually post it. Since, apparently, a picture is worth a thousand words of "spirited discussion", here it is:



That is Ukrainian. The transliteration is "Idu do tebe...".  This is the title card that appeared in the original release in the Ukrainian SSR in late 1971. It predates the Russian title card used in the wide re-release in mid 1972 by more than half a year. Now that you've seen the original Ukrainian title card from the original release, and you can see that it reads "Idu do tebe..." on screen, I trust that, following the IMDb rules and your own reasoning, you will see and agree that "Idu do tebe..." should be the primary title in the IMDb.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I am certainly willing to discuss this further.

Sincerely,
motley_moth
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motley_moth

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Posted 3 months ago

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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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The obvious question should be by anybody here is, what is the source for the image above. As I see it, it is an image of a title indeed. Where and when it came from has not been clearly stated by you.
If I were to present the very same evidence, I would be asked these very same questions. You are not better than the rest of us just because of your status as a long time contributor.
Please provide URL verifiable proof.
Thanks
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motley_moth

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Ed Jones(XLIX),

The source? Sure. It's a screenshot from the Ukrainian version of the film found at the same website used in the earlier thread as a source for the Russian title card. You can find the direct link in the video section for this title. There are two videos there. You'll want the one that says Ukrainian.

Do you have any more questions or concerns?

motley_moth
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Yes. 1971 predates the internet. What is the proof that the URL in question is actually from a 1971 showing? Or for that matter was any proof presented. A video link is just that a video link. What was the source material used? Has it been verified as being authentic? Pre-internet and pre-fall of the USSR would suggest that all titles released in that era be officially by order of the politburo as Russian. Or so one would think. I cannot imagine a title that was released in the USSR in 1971 "Officially" getting a Ukrainian dub being released ahead of an official Russian version first. It would have been unthinkable to the party leaders to allow this to happen.

So is that URL verified by an Iron Clad backup source? Or is this whole thing relying on a single video source?

I would not state my contribution reputation on speculation.
I cannot see how you can take a sole source as verification.
Sorry to be a pest, but there are holes on both sides to this debate that I felt needed to be answered.

Now you were cute in your reply to me when I asked, "what is the source for the image above."

Your reply was See the video. Well here's your evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac5VSae7hyE

The video that is listed on you tube is a full ten minutes shorter than the runtime. This is a cause for concern in itself. Moving along. Obviously this would be acceptable if it was uploaded in 1971. Oh Yeah. There was no internet in 71! So if you are taking an incorrect runtime uploaded in 2017 video as your proof???? Woah!

Now, this says nothing more than the movies name and its release. There is no backup source for verification. No short history. Nothing at all that says where and when it was released with evidence to prove it. As you are well aware anyone can upload anything to you tube and claim anything they desire.
This is poor proof.







The database deserves accuracy above all else.
I certainly do not see accuracy here.
(Edited)
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piznajko

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I agree with Ed Jones(XLIX)'s points above. One thing I would add - films that were originally shot in Russian (e.g., where language used on set was Russian, like in the case of Idu k tebe...), always had original version of credits in Russian and this film is no exception. In other words, original credits are Russian language credits (which is quite logical, given that the film audio is originally in Russian).

In support of point above, one also sees that the film Idu k tebe... is stored in Russian State Film Fund archives (Gosfilmofond) and there it states that film's title is a phrase in Russian 'Иду к тебе' (romanized as Idu k tebe). It is widely known in Ukrainian film circles that Russia DID NOT preserve in their Gosfilmofond any copies of films produced with original Ukrainian audio (and, for that matter, any movies dubbed into Ukrainian from Russian). In other words, the very fact that this movie is stored in Russia's Gosfilmofond indicates that original language of the film was Russian and original title of the film was a Russian phrase Idu k tebe...

p.s. Gosfilmofond also has the original poster for this film (also in Russian) - see the snippet below (I also just uploaded it to imdb):

(Edited)
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piznajko

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Forgot to add the link on gosfilmofond website: https://gosfilmofond.ru/films/146814/

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piznajko,

The Russian Gosfilmofond poster is great. In fact, it's way cool. There certainly is no rule in the IMDb against posters from any release in any language.

The Gosfilmofond of Russia, though, generally only archives records of films related to the Russian Federation, usually films in the Russian language. This may include historical films released in the former Russian Soviet Federal Socialist Republic (RSFSR), or the broader former USSR. So it includes the Russian version of "Idu do tebe...", which, as we know, is "Idu k tebe...". But it does not as a rule include modern Ukrainian films, or films in Ukrainian from the former Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (Ukrainian SSR). Try, for example, to find Koliyivshchyna (1933) under either the Ukrainian "Коліївщина" or the Russian "Колиивщина". So it's not going to help much with demonstrating the production and release history of this film.

If you notice, the Gosfilmofond proudly state on their homepage that that they are member in good standing of the International Federation of Film Archives (FIAF). To research a Ukrainian film, you need to find the correct archive. On the FIAF website, in the list of members, you can find another member in good standing: The Oleksandr Dovzhenko National Centre in Kiev, Ukraine. (They are related to the Dovzhenko Film Studios that made this film).

They are in the process of redesigning their website. It is not quite finished, so they do not have a complete list of their available archived titles posted online. I cannot post a direct link to a page. But they offer a 105 page PDF file of their entire archive here on Google Drive.

On page 17, under the year 1971, you'll find this film listed under its Ukrainian title "Idu do tebe...". Here's a copy of the page with the title pointed out (don't forget to click it to see it full size) --



For the English-speakers, here is a translation of the line, left-to-right, from Ukrainian:
Year: 1971
Title: "Idu do tebe..." - Feature length film
Studio: Dovzhenko Film Studios
Director: Nikolay Mashchenko
Color/B&W: B&W
Language versions in order of release: Ukrainian, Russian
Running time: [Left blank because there are 2 running times: 58 minutes for the censored Ukrainian version and 68 minutes for the Russian version]

This indicates that it was a Ukrainian film with the title "Idu do tebe..." that was later released in Russian. That is the release history of the film found on other sources, such as Kino-Teatr.ru.

motley_moth
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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What part of the Ukraine was NOT a country in 1971 do you not comprehend?
It was a State in the USSR. NOT A COUNTRY.
Grayson understands this. Why can't you.
No matter what you say it was a USSR original release.
That is accurate.
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motley_moth

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Grayson,

I've decided to add some more information on the release history, using some authoritative sources to back it up. Before doing so, it may be useful to quickly review the IMDb rules on determining the title and language of a film.

1) The Title --
The first sentence under the subheading "Title formats" in "Adding a new title" states:
"We use the original title of a movie/show in its original language as it appears on screen in the opening credits." [bold in original]
To make this absolutely clear, this is, of course, referring to what the IMDb refers to as the original release.

2) The Language --
The first bullet point under the subheading "A. Languages - Overview" in "Languages" states:
"The IMDb languages section records the languages spoken in titles in the database." [bold added for emphasis]
Note that this refers to the language spoken in the title, ie., what is heard by the audience. There is nothing here at all about any language or languages used during production or filming. There is also nothing here about whether it is a dub or not. And, again, to make this absolutely clear, this is, of course, referring to what the IMDb refers to as the original release.

Now, almost a decade ago, former IMDb Senior Data Manager Jon Reeves suggested using the term "version" to refer to different releases of a film in different languages. I'll continue that here. Now all can agree that this film has two versions: a Ukrainian version - "Іду до тебе..." - and a Russian version - "Иду к тебе...". The transliterated title of the Ukrainian version is "Idu do tebe...", while the transliterated title of the Russian version is "Idu k tebe...". Both titles translate into English as "I'm Coming to You...". Both versions have a title card and credits in their respective languages. Both versions have audio recorded in post-production in their respective languages. Both were produced by the Dovzhenko Film Studio in Kiev. Although the ultimate funding for both came from the Communist Party of the USSR in Moscow, they were both funded locally by the Communist Party of the Ukrainian SSR. They differ significantly in length: the Russian version is about 68 minutes long, while, as it was heavily censored by the Communist Party of the Ukrainian SSR, the Ukrainian version is only about 58 minutes long.

Both versions are available online in several places, including, conveniently, on YouTube:
The Ukrainian version on YouTube: "Idu do tebe..." (The source of the Ukrainian title card above.)
The Russian version on YouTube: "Idu k tebe..."

What needs to be determined is which one is the original release as the term is used by the IMDb. This will determine both the primary title in the IMDb as well as the language. Since they were both released in the USSR, the country of production, the only question is which one was released first.

Let's examine some sources:

There are 3 authoritative sources in the Russian Internet on Russian and Ukrainian cinema, both modern and Soviet-era: 1) Kino-Teatr.ru ("Cinema-Theater"), 2) KinoPoisk.ru ("CinemaSearch"), and 3) RusKino.ru ("RussianCinema"). They can be thought of as Russian equivalents to the IMDb. They are the sites one goes to first. Of the three, the most reliable and authoritative is Kino-Teatr.ru (they have direct access to Soviet-era archives and prints). None of them use the "as onscreen" rule for titles as the IMDb does; since they are Russian sites, they list all films under their Russian titles, in this case, "Idu k tebe...".

Here are the direct links:
"Idu k tebe..." at Kino-Teatr.ru
"Idu k tebe..." at KinoPoisk.ru
"Idu k tebe..." at RusKino.ru

In this particular case, RusKino.ru does not give much information, except to agree on the filmmakers, the cast, the production studio, and that the year of the film is 1971.

KinoPoisk.ru, however, gives two release dates: the first sometime in 1971 (other sources indicate it was late in the year, possibly in December), and the second a re-release sometime in July of 1972. The direct link to the page on KinoPoisk.ru showing the premieres is here. Since I understand that you don't speak Russian, I've made a screenshot of the page with English notes pointing out the releases (don't forget to click it to see it full size) --




Kino-Teatr.ru goes into further detail. Most significantly, it states that the original title of the film when first released in 1971 was "Іду до тебе..." ("Idu do tebe..."), which is the Ukrainian title. It also gives the complete date of the re-release: 24 July 1972. The direct link to the film's page at Kino-Teatr.ru is here. Again, since I understand that you don't speak Russian, I've made a screenshot of the page with English notes pointing out the original title (1st line at the top to the right of the poster) and the release dates (1st release date is the 2nd line at the top to the right of the poster // 2nd release date, the re-release, is the bottom line under the filmmakers, cast, and production company) (again, don't forget to click it to see it full size) --




So, clearly, the first release was the Ukrainian version. Hence, it is the original release as the term is used by the IMDb. So the primary title in the IMDb should be the Ukrainian title "Idu do tebe...". Since the audio was Ukrainian, the language should be Ukrainian.


As always, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Sincerely,
motley_moth
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There are 3 authoritative sources in the Russian Internet on Russian and Ukrainian cinema, both modern and Soviet-era: 1) Kino-Teatr.ru ("Cinema-Theater"), 2) KinoPoisk.ru ("CinemaSearch"), and 3) RusKino.ru ("RussianCinema").
I laughed really hard when I read that. motley_moth, you clearly have no knowledge of where actual authoritative sources for Ukrainian cinema are, both modern and Soviet-era: hint, they are NOT on the Russian internet, but rather on Ukrainian one: dzygamdb.com, kinokolo.ua etc. The fact that you think that Russian websites are authoritative sources for Ukrainian cinema, especially modern ones, puts your entire credibility as an imdb contributor of anything related to Ukrainian cinema in question.

Lucky for you, however, this particular title Idu k tebe... is a representative of Russian cinema, and not Ukrainian: the nonsense stuff your wrote above above two original versions of the film is all gibberish. There's only one original version: it's the Russian-language version of the film (all main actors were Russian who didn't even speak Ukrainian; all actors originally spoke Russian on set - one easily sees that actors articulate their mouths in Russian). The other version is a dubbed into-Ukrainian version - it's just that, a dubbed into Ukrainian version. If you read the imdb rules on Languages carefully- you would've understood long time ago that imdb as a rule does not record any dubbed versions of the film and the only reason Grayson has conceded to adding Ukrainian dubbed version to the list of languages (despite the fact that it actually directly violates imdb's Languages rules) is because you've annoyed him so much with your edit warring that it was easier for him to make this film an exception in terms of allowing a dubbed language to be added, rather than continue arguing with you.

In the original discussion, I've explained to you in great detail the definition of original release: that it's not the very first release of a movie that might happen to be a dubbed language version, but rather the first release in the original language (in 99.9% of al cases original language is the language used on set). To illustrate this point, I gave you multiple examples of Hollywood movies that got released in a dubbed-to-foreign-language version days/weeks/months before the original language got released (just like it was done with Idu k tebe, where it seems like it was released ~5 months later in the original Russian language version than the Ukrainian dubbed version released around Feb 1972) - but you continuously fail to understand this concept, again and again. If you cannot understand this concept - then nobody else will be able to do this for you, you'll just have to keep trying hard until you understand it.

p.s. You can't use either of the websites you've listed (e.g. Kino-Teatr.ru,  KinoPoisk.ru) as above as a reliable external source for anything on imdb, as these are databases that allow users to edit its content. Just like with imdb, data editors are prone to errors when accepting user contribution, so there's no guarantee that any information listed on these website is accurate. An actual reliable source is something written by professionals - you can find plenty of example of reliable sources for cinema-related topics in specialized books, magazines etc. (see example here: The Routledge Encyclopedia of Films)
(Edited)
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motley_moth, Kinopoisk is an IMDb-pastiche (there are at least three in most of the world's countries, often more), which copies 80% of its information from IMDb. In no way it is authoritative source. Not sure whether I've seen or heard of RusKino before but I've seen same exact format being used by a few websites. Information on the movies seems to be badly incomplete in it, which is a part of said format. Out of the three websites, Kino-Teatr has the most credibility. Firstly because it's frankly an unrivaled resource on facial identification of Soviet bit part actors and secondly because oftentimes it uses knowledge acquired directly from actors and filmmakers or corrected according to them.   

piznajko, funnily enough, both Kinopoisk and Kino-Teatr have heavily restricted title editing which mostly relies on small editorial team and scripts, latter mining information directly from IMDb. I've seen a lot of that in the past, since it was half-amusing to see how it butchered my filmography over the years, also deleting and reinstating me as a filmmaker and actor quite a few times, because Kinopoisk has a ban on 'amateur' productions, conistently failing to define what is amateur, how it differs from independent etc. :) Frankly, this website is a laguhable, unreliable mess and somewhat of a laughing stock.  
(Edited)
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piznajko,


Ukrainian Film Sources --


Thank you for suggesting websites specializing in Ukrainian film. I was aware of Kino-Kolo. But I had not heard of DzygaMDB. I will try to use them in the future.

From what I can see, they seem to be accurate and helpful for those films and filmmakers that they do list. They may be good sources for modern Ukrainian cinema. But they do not seem to be very good sources for historical Ukrainian cinema from the former Ukrainian SSR. They are very spotty and incomplete.  For example, although Kino-Kolo does at least list director Ivan Kavaleridze, and includes 5 of his films, neither Kino-Kolo nor DzygaMDB list his film Koliyivshchyna (1933). DzygaMDB lists screenwriter Ivan Drach with 2 of his films, but does not list his film "Idu do tebe...".  Kino-Kolo is a little better. It lists screenwriter Ivan Drach with 9 of his films, including "Idu do tebe...". Here's a screenshot (don't forget to click it to see it full size) --



Note that it lists the film under both the Ukrainian and Russian titles: "Idu do tebe..." / "Idu k tebe...". So, what does this mean? Was it released in both languages? Was the Ukrainian version released before the Russian version? Kino-Kolo is not clear. They give the year of the film as 1971, which was the year the Ukrainian version was released. But they give the length as 72 minutes, which was the running time of the Russian version. So, is this about the Ukrainian version or the Russian version? They also say it was in color, when it was in B&W.

Though they specialize in Ukrainian film, neither site really seems to be much help with determining the production and release history of this film. On the other hand, even if they are in Russian and do not specialize in Ukrainian film, both KinoPoisk.ru and Kino-Teatr.ru do help significantly with this film, providing a complete release history.


English Words in Context --

As a native English-speaker, it is apparent to me that you are having difficulty understanding the intended meanings of several English words when taken in the context in which they are being used. Words have different meanings in different contexts. A simple and colorful example is the English word "bitch". When used by a dog breeder, it's a harmless word that just means a female dog. When used to refer to a woman, it means a difficult and aggressive person; it's not harmless, and may be considered an insult or a compliment, depending on the situation.

One of the English words you don't seem to understand in context is the noun "dub" or "dubbing", and the related verb "to dub".  (You also don't understand the English words "original" or "release" in context, but I'll deal with those later).

Remember, there is a fundamental difference between the production of a film and the release of a film. The complete production of the flm encompasses three stages: pre-production, production, and post-production. Pre-production involves, at the least, the creating of the idea. It may also, in some cases, include the writing of the script. It usually includes securing financing. And it may include finding a director who will agree to be attached to the film. The production includes finding a director or finalizing the contract with an attached director, hiring the crew, building the sets and finding locations, casting, and the actual filming. This is then followed by post-production, which usually includes editing of the film and recording of the final audio soundtrack. The release of a film is when it is finally exhibited or screened to the public in its completed form.

The audio recorded during filming -- if a recording is even made -- is rarely, if ever, used in any release. It's not what the audience actually hears. The sound quality cannot be controlled. Extraneous noise cannot be eliminated. The final post-production audio recording is done in a sound studio, where it can be controlled. It often includes the use of isolation sound booths to record the actors' voices. Sound effects are added. It's mixed with a recording of a performance of the musical score. Part of your confusion may come from the fact that the term "dubbing" may be used casually by a native English-speaker when describing this post-production process. But that's not the meaning intended by the IMDb.

The word "dubbing" is used the third bullet point under the subheading "B. Key Submission Rules" in "Languages":

"Please note that this refers to the original release; we do not record dubbing languages for foreign releases in this list, or DVD subtitle options."

The word "dubbing" here is not referring to the normal post-production recording of the audio soundtrack heard in the original release. It is referring to subsequent soundtracks made in a language that is foreign to the language of the original release, for release in a foreign county outside the country of origin. Both the Ukrainian and Russian versions were released inside the former USSR, the country of origin. Neither of them is a "dub" in the meaning intended or context used here in the IMDb. The rule "...we do not record dubbing languages for foreign releases in this list..." does not refer to either of them.


False Analogy --

You gave the example of the release of the The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor (2008) being released first in Russia before it was released in the USA, arguing that that demonstrates that the first release is not necessarily the original release. (Even though that's not what I said. I said the first release in the country of origin was the original release, not the first release in the world.) Now the Russian version of The Mummy 3 was a "dub" with the meaning intended and in the context used in the IMDb rule above: "...we do not record dubbing languages for foreign releases in this list...". The country of origin was the USA. The language of the original release was English. The Russian version was in a language - Russian - that is a foreign language to English. And it was released in a foreign country - Russia - which is outside of the USA. But, as already pointed out, both the Ukrainian and the Russian versions of "Idu do tebe..." were released inside the former USSR. Neither one is a foreign release as meant in the IMDb rule.

A logician would call this error in reasoning a "false analogy". There is an English expression commonly used to describe it: "Comparing apples to oranges". The release of a Russian "dub" of The Mummy 3 in Russia is not the same situation as the release of the Ukrainian and Russian versions of "Ido do tebe..." in the former USSR. It's not analogous.

The former USSR was a union of several socialist republics, each with their own native language. The legal and official language was Russian. But the individual republics retained and continued to use their own language. The correct analogous situation is not what occurs between the USA and Russia, but what occurs inside countries that have several internal languages. In addition to the former USSR, I can think of two such countries: Canada and Switzerland.

Most of Canada speaks English. But there there is a zone centered in Quebec that speaks French. French, in fact, is the legal language in Quebec. Since most English-speaking Canadians prefer Hollywood films, there is not much of an English-language film industry in Canada. But Quebec produces a significant number of films in French that are subsequently prepped for English-speaking audiences and re-released throughout Canada. Switzerland has four national languages: German, French, Italian, and Romansh. All four regions produce films in their native language that are very often subsequently prepped for one or more of the other languages and re-released in those regions within Switzerland. (Because they include over 80% of the population, German and French predominate, both as the language of the original release and the prepped language of the subsequent re-release).

The analogous situation to the release of films in multiple languages in the former USSR, therefore, is the release of films in multiple languages in Canada and Switzerland. That would be, as an English-speaker might say, "comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges".

So, the question is, how is the original release determined in Canada and Switzerland? Is it the first release? Or is it a subsequent wide re-release?


motley_moth
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piznajko

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You gave the example of the release of the The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor (2008) being released first in Russia before it was released in the USA, arguing that that demonstrates that the first release is not necessarily the original release. (Even though that's not what I said. I said the first release in the country of origin was the original release, not the first release in the world.) Now the Russian version of The Mummy 3 was a "dub" with the meaning intended and in the context used in the IMDb rule above: "...we do not record dubbing languages for foreign releases in this list...". The country of origin was the USA. The language of the original release was English. The Russian version was in a language - Russian - that is a foreign language to English. And it was released in a foreign country - Russia - which is outside of the USA. But, as already pointed out, both the Ukrainian and the Russian versions of "Idu do tebe..." were released inside the former USSR. Neither one is a foreign release as meant in the IMDb rule.
motley_moth you're making a bunch of false assumptions about a "dubbed version" of films, claiming that the "dubbed version" HAS TO be released in a "foreign country". That's a made-up assumption, that has no logic behind it whatsoever - a dubbed version, is a dubbed version. It can be released inside the country of production, outside the country of production, or even on the moon.

Since you like to show off your "native English speaker" status, here's the phrase for you: stop beating the dead horse. The film was shot in Russian, all main actors were Russian (who didn't even speak Ukrainian), and the original audio was in Russian (actors spoke Russian on set AND the the final audio version created for the theatrical release was in Russian (including dialogues that weren't captured on-set and had to be re-recorded later in post-production). You trying to repeatedly conjure up some made-up logic that Ukrainian-dubbed-version is an "original" version is damaging to the imdb community, since it's taking productive time other imdb contributors.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Motley Moth,

For the last time.
What part of the Ukraine was NOT a country in 1971 do you not comprehend?
It was a State in the USSR. NOT A COUNTRY.
Grayson understands this. Why can't you.
No matter what you say it was a USSR original release.
That is accurate.
Quit trying to rewrite history.
You can all argue about what version was released first language wise. But since there is only those sites and they are likely to have a revisionist history agenda going, they are what they are. Post Soviet era databases.
Anyone that ignores the history of the Soviet Ruling parties desire to have all things produced in that country as solely USSR first and maybe, then maybe if you say pretty please don't send me to the gulag Mr. Party Leader, but can we make a version of this in the Ukrainian language? They probably would reluctantly said yes, but their heavy hand would be all over the final print of that film. They would have gutted/edited the film so as to make it inferior to the first released official USSR Version. So it makes sense that, that version be of less length. We would not want the Ukraine version to be as good as the USSR/Russian Official version. No Comrade!
Please stop trying to gaslight here with all this data.
It is at best revisionist.
Thanks
(Edited)
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motley_moth

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Ed Jones(XLIX),

I thought at first you were trolling. You do know the the adjective "Ukrainian" can refer to either the Ukrainian language or to the country of Ukraine, right? It's being used here in reference to the Ukrainian language.

The actual production and release history of this film is much more interesting than your theories.

By the way, they are called "republics", not "states".

motley_moth
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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What you call Theories.....are actual History!
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Ed Jones(XLIX), to be honest, republics in the USSR had a degree of langauge autonomy when releasing movies regionally. 

Za dvoma zaytsiamy (1961), for example, originally had a Ukrainian-dominant language track (in both versions it is filmed in a mixture of Ukrainian and Russian) which became Russian-dominant in a later USSR-wide release thanks to a dub. Original language track was later rediscovered in archives and movie was released with a restoration of its original form. 

So, no USSR as a country of release does not autmoatically mean Russian as an original release language. 
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piznajko

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@Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin) regardless, the case of Idu k tebe (1971) is the opposite of Za dvoma zaytsiamy (1961): while in Za dvoma zaytsiamy original dialogues were in Ukrainian (there were just a few phrases in Russian in the original audio track), in Idu k tebe (1971) the situation is the opposite: original dialogue language was Russian (all main actors were Russians who didn't even speak Ukrainian, all dialogues on set were in Russian) and the version in Ukrainian is just a dubbed version
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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piznajko, not arguing that, just further explaining the context. 
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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OK. Glad you weighed in. I trust you and piznajko more than I would motley-moth. He is from the US and as such I find his research to be just that............. research.
It is not definitive. You and piznajko are both "FROM" the region in question. As such I trust the both of you implicitly. MM is from here in the US. I would never dispute findings or your interpretations from either of you. Motley however seems to flaunt his status as a "trusted" contributor to the point of shutting down piznajko's obvious connections to the region and out hand was dismissing that first hand knowledge as inferior. He should have deferred to his and later your expertise in this matter, but still defends his position, which I found troubling.
Thanks for informing all of us what is trustworthy as far as referencing sites is concerned!

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