How come I can't delete a Conversation (or close one) but a "Champion" can with Impunity?

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I have been in two Loooong "Conversation" discourses with one bluesmanSF, Champion. Some interesting stuff. Some rancor, sure, as in many conversations.  Some good advice and some stuff completely passed over without answer or real understanding. On both occasions Blues closed down the conversation without my "right" (if I have any on this site) of reply. This leaves me very much with the feeling (a) I have been assigned to Blues, (b) I am playing in his sandbox (yes, I do read, Blues) and (c) this "GetSatisfaction" is definitely no virtual watercooler of good ideas and discourse (yes, I do read, Blues!)

So "Champions" have complete control, sanctioned by IMDb, of these threads?     

Blues, from your last response, as an Officer of Sunrise Entertainment I thank you for your business in buying the "Rock 'n' Roll Greats: Starship Featuring Mickey Thomas." Yes, that was one of our legal releases and, yes, it wasn't a great "controlled" performance but part of a live festival called Itchycoo Park, videotaped a year before the first US commercial High Definition truck was ever built - we used an experimental HD truck on an evaluation tour in the US. It was also "filmed" under high duress as huge thunderstorms were rolling through which ultimately destroyed the "soft goods" on the stage - and the FBI were at hand protecting Heart from a very real death threat - a gunman hidden out in the woods.  (Itchycoo Park was the forerunner of Bonnaroo, the successful festival our company was cheated out of - all fun stuff!)

And you think changing credits is the Industry's God-given work? Ah! I'm messin' with you, Blues.

As to your viewing of "The Dark Place" - well that seems legitimate. I contacted the sales agents/distributors Shoreline Entertainment and Breaking Glass and Amazon is one of the multiple platforms licensed to carry this movie. As I had said in the lost posting, I am copying my entire thread with you (assuming it will be the assigned bluesman reading)  and have passed on all of your stated actions to the Producers and distributors of "The Dark Place."  As I continuously tried to explain, although you stated, "I am looking at one of the films you produced," I was the consulting producer on this title and I did not post the final list of credits to IMDb, so I have no idea of, "The 75% rate of inaccuracies." 

So, Blues, as I feel churned up and somewhat dissatisfied by both "Conversation" discourses (threads) and as I have continuously (continually) accepted the reasoning, legitimacy and ruling of the (uncredited) designation, but you keep on and keep on referring back to it, I want these two Conversations removed, in the same way you seem to have the right to just close them down.

Seems fair to me?  [copied to file]   
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CFT

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Posted 4 years ago

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bluesmanSF, Champion

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How come I can't delete a Conversation (or close one) but a "Champion" can
"Champions" have proven, over many years and many thousands of contributions to the database, to know how the site works and how to contribute data. You've posted three times (to my, for example, maybe 15,000 times, including this site and many years on the old "Help" board on the main site) about site issues and you've been wrong about how the site works and how to go about submitting/correcting data. You've also continually posted the same comments and don't seem to know when a question/problem is resolved. So, they'll not likely extend the capabilities of "champions."

You seem to be implying I closed your thread...I did not. Nor did I mark it as not needing a reply.

On both occasions Blues closed down the conversation without my "right" (if I have any on this site) of reply
This statement is absolutely untrue.

As to your "right"...this is private property and you'll need to abide by this site's and IMDb's terms and conditions. Continually lying and posting absolute untruths probably violates both. But, a closed topic has nothing to do with that. It simply means it's been adequately answered.

It's clear you've been allowed reply as you've made 17 posts, most of them replies.

I thank you for your business in buying the "Rock 'n' Roll Greats: Starship Featuring Mickey Thomas
You're welcome.

it wasn't a great "controlled" performance but part of a live festival called Itchycoo Park, videotaped a year before the first US commercial High Definition truck was ever built
I can understand and appreciate that. I almost always prefer more raw performance and recording and hate watching a DVD of a group/performer that was heavily re-recorded in a recording studio to fix all the errors. It's annoying and misleading. It's rough on artist who don't do so as they are compared to those sterile and phony "performances" and it makes it look like they are not as good as those who fixed up the errors afterwards. That said, Mickey was pushing a bit and was a bit rough, to say the least...no offense, Mickey!

The Dark Place
I am still reviewing the credits. I am still finding people being credited wrong and/or not credited for certain jobs. Many are credited on IMDb for one or two jobs but missing credited work in other departments. So, as I said, going from the paperwork and not the on screen credits is creating confusing and inadequate/incomplete IMDb listings regarding your work. I am glad that, as a consultant to the film, you've advised them to submit more responsibly (or, I guess, leave it to someone else, if that's easier for them).

As to you're not being responsible for the listings, I understand that completely. The reason I brought it up is, you are listed in IMDb for the title you originally posted about, and have taken up hours trying to get the word "uncredited" (which is there for a reason, to explain why users won't see the name if viewing the on screen credits...not because it's not deserved or worthy of credit...which is the filmmakers' decision) removed from the page. That is also not your responsibility as a child acting in the cast (I'd actually think a Producer of any type would be more responsible...but if you say that's not true, I'll take your word for it). Yet, you don't worry at all, seemingly, about all the errors in another film you're a much bigger part of (incidentally, your cast credit was wrong on The Dark Side), or so it seemed when you said, "it's not my responsibility". So my implication was, all things equal (in neither case are you responsible for adding credits correctly to IMDb), there are many more valid corrections to be made on a different title in your filmography than the one you were originally asking about (which was completely accurate).


So "Champions" have complete control, sanctioned by IMDb, of these threads?  
No. This is not true. Staff monitors all threads daily. They have the ability to re-open, edit, remove, threads or replies, move them to other threads or change a reply to a new thread, sanction abusive users, etc. "Champions" are site users/customers, as defined by this site.

You mentioned that your concerns were not all answered. Staff, champions, mains site users, anyone in the world, actually, can and are completely welcome to add replies regardless of whether I've added a reply. So, it's nothing to do with me if your questions are not answered. You're free to post unanswered topics as new threads so they don't get confused with your already-answered topics.
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Mr. Toyne,

Can you help? I am trying to finish up going over the credits for The Dark Place (I just corrected/added about 18 more errors/omissions) and found this puzzling one. Could you find out...

There is a "Spenser Searson" credited on screen who was added to IMDb as "Spencer Severson."

Was this an on screen error or an error when adding to IMDb? I'd like it credited properly and the error indicated if the error was on screen (and Spenser/Spencer would probably appreciate it as well).

See:




So, I'd need to know what his real name is, basically (it should be the heading to his page, then the "(as Spenser Searson)" attribute added to indicate how it was shown on screen.

Thanks!
(Edited)
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“to my, for example, maybe 15,000 times, including this site and many years on the old "Help" board on the main site”

Hey Champ, I am back in your sandbox. 15,000 times? WOW! That is either paid for, or WAY beyond the call of any normal duty. Do you have a life? There was a contradiction in terms, for you once wrote, "we're just a bunch of hardcore movie fans who still can't get over the fact that we're getting paid to keep improving this tool" and later wrote on more than one occasion, I am not staff and don't get paid.”


“You seem to be implying I closed your thread...I did not. Nor did I mark it as not needing a reply.”

 Well, both ‘Conversations’ came up with “This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies” at the bottom. I don’t see any way I can achieve that outcome, so surely either you did, or some auto feature jumped in?  Anyway, Blues, enough of that. Let’s get down to the fun stuff.


“Rock 'n' Roll Greats: Starship Featuring Mickey Thomas.... It's rough on artist who don't do so as they are compared to those sterile and phony "performances" and it makes it look like they are not as good as those who fixed up the errors afterwards. That said, Mickey was pushing a bit and was a bit rough, to say the least...no offense, Mickey!”

 Blues, you seem to be a bit of a music aficionado, so this might be of some interest to you. Of course, like so many “Live” performance DVDs, his was a hybrid, we did a lot of post mixing on this and the rest of the “Rock ‘n’ Roll Greats” series. We mixed these on one of the three remaining (then) George Massenberg analog boards owned by John Kaye. Always with the artiste present. John, of course, re-mixed his own Steppenwolf DVD and helped mix Mickey’s.  This was the really fun part of the project, after the mud and slime of a buffalo pasture in Manchester, Tennessee. Bonnaroo, you’re welcome! (The FBI caught the gunman out to get Ann Wilson. Joke was 'Heart' never turned up!)    


“I am glad that, as a consultant to the film, you've advised them to submit more responsibly (or, I guess, leave it to someone else, if that's easier for them).”

 You’re welcome. However, in the real world it is not as easy as this.  This project was finished 2 years ago. The company effectively split between Jody Wheeler, who took over direction and post-production and finished "The Dark Place", and J.T. Tepnapa who, with his partners, concentrated on the pre-production of “Something Like Summer.” I will instruct our Line Producer to be VERY careful with her listings as we start shooting in August, having pushed back from June 23 to re-cast the lead role. 


I brought it up is, you are listed in IMDb for the title you originally posted about, and have taken up hours trying to get the word "uncredited............. removed from the page. ......... I'd actually think a Producer of any type would be more responsible.........Yet, you don't worry at all, seemingly, about all the errors in another film you're a much bigger part of”

Now Champ, and I thought we were getting on so well! To quote Ronald Regan, “There you go again!” Reviewing that first thread, I didn’t spend hours on it, I accepted your screen grabs early on (verified by my shiny new DVD just received) and the IMDb rules you posted.  It was a long discourse with Alfred Jarry (you slapped him down good) and the support of gromit82 that kept it going. Then Blues, you got really angry with me over my “snarky” remarks. Gee whiz. That’s what took hours. And you wouldn’t and still don’t accept that I GOT IT!

 As I have tried to explain, the credits for THE DARK PLACE were entered after picture was locked by Jody Wheeler down in LA. I screened the rough cut the fine cut and the locked picture in Portland and Seattle.  I have only streamed the finished version once and I didn’t “eagle-eye” the end-credits.  I believe the credits were entered from the call-sheets and the unit list at the time of building the credit roll during the on-line edit (usual method for digital finishing.)  More of that re. your question below.    

 You have no right to say that I, “don't worry at all, seemingly, about all the errors,” – but I don’t obsess over it the way you Champs obviously do.  Your obsession over the First Version screen credit rule, I believe, would remove thousands, maybe, tens of thousands of many valid and worthwhile credits from IMDb - or add an equal number of (uncredited)s.  Yes, that IS my opinion.

 

“incidentally, your cast credit was wrong on The Dark Side”

 “The Dark Side?”  I did work, briefly on “The Bill” (uncredited) but not on the episode “The Dark Side” which shot a few episodes earlier.  I have not bothered to self-credit myself on “The Bill.”


 If you meant “The Dark Place,” without streaming it, what are my credit(s)?

 

“or so it seemed when you said, "it's not my responsibility"”

 Blues, Thou misquotes me. I said that I was not responsible for the final entry of IMDb credits for “The Dark Place.” You are implying a wider sense of irresponsibility in credit entry on IMDb. You are correct in one sense.  I, and most people working in the industry, believe that if people substantially work on a project that makes it to the screen - silver or digital – they should get an IMDb credit.  I therefore agree with the rule (uncredited) IF the alternative is no credit at all.


“You're free to post unanswered topics as new threads so they don't get confused with your already-answered topics.”

Thank you for this advice.


“Mr. Toyne,”

Blues, now that we are such good virtual friends, please call me Christopher, or any fun derivative: Tiffer, CFT, Cristof (but NEVER Chris!)


“There is a "Spenser Searson" credited on screen who was added to IMDb as "Spencer Severson...... Was this an on screen error or an error when adding to IMDb? I'd like it credited properly and the error indicated if the error was on screen (and Spenser/Spencer would probably appreciate it as well)”

 Ah! Now a conundrum, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma (to misquote WSC!) I have been through the every one of the call sheets. A Spencer joined us half way through the shoot as a lighting tech. and therefore wasn’t added to the Unit List.   His name was spelt as both Spencer and once as Spenser. On one call sheet his full name was put in as Spencer Searson.   However, we do have a Spencer Severson working in the local PDX market, small stuff, 48 hour film, local commercials and the like.

 

OK! I’ve e-mailed our Co-ordinator on the film, who is also my Line Producer on “Something Like Summer.” She will know.

 I am guessing that Spencer Severson put into IMDb for a name correction? So the conundrum is Mr. Champion-keep-to-the-strick-letter-of-the-IMDb-Rules, what do you do if one Spenser Searson is credited but one Spencer Severson worked on the film.

Interesting!


Well, Blues, enjoy your day and your 15,001 entry – naa – you’re up to..................

 

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Ooops..my bad..yes, I meant "The Dark Place." I was just mentioning that your character was not listed as shown in the credits. I forget what it said, some kind of surgeon, but was credited on screen as "Doctor."

Yeah...Spenser/Spencer's is a confusing one.

As to your question of what one would do about it, first you'd go by the credits. So, if it says "Spenser Searson," you'd put "Spenser Searson." If that's his only credit or if he's most often  credited that way, regardless of real name vs. stage name, he'd be listed as "Spenser Searson" even if his name is really "Santa Claus."

But, if he's listed in the database as "Spencer Severson" and has an existing page for which he's most often credited that way, you'd list it on his page but add the attribute, "(as Spenser Searson)" so users can see that his name is Spencer but on screen he's Spenser.

Whomever added it did neither. They merely added Spencer though it's not credited that way. Which is wrong no matter how you look at it.

IMDb documents on screen credits (and notates errors like this one, or difference when someone has different version of his/her name...when submitted correctly, that is).

Thanks, Tiffer! ;)

FYI, I jumped down to the Kickstarter "producers" and made about 15 more corrections. 5 or 6 names were missing, others were missing "(as...)" attributes, etc. I think I am nearing 100 corrections for that one page (The Dark Place).

There was a contradiction in terms, for you once wrote, "we're just a bunch of hardcore movie fans who still can't get over the fact that we're getting paid to keep improving this tool"
I have explained this. I guess you either did not read my comment or didn't understand it. I never "wrote" that. It was copied and pasted from the "help" section page to which I linked you. It was not me "speaking" but staff (of which I am not a part of). I also wrapped it in this board's markup for "quotes" because I was "quoting" someone else and not speaking in my own words. Note when replying, there are quotation marks. If you highlight a portion of text and click it, it will indicate you're quoting from someone/somewhere else. Note that I've done that above while quoting you. It indicates it is not my words but yours.

You might notice that when I first posted that, it began with the link What is IMDb?, then, in quotes, the text you highlight above. The quotes indicate it came from that page created by staff. Click the link and you'd see:



Also, when you say that I either closed your thread (and deleted the other, that I never even saw) or it was done by automation, again, staff here are:

https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/details/employees

Top of the list is Col Needham, the CEO and creator of the site. I am not on the list and am not an employeed. I am not aware of any automation that will delete an unwanted thread but I can honestly say, I did not close your thread about a non-existent "threat" I supposedly made, nor did I mark it as not warranting an answer and I did not delete the third thread you say you posted. There are 50 or so people that could have done such a thing. So you have no reason to imply it could have only been me because, for starters, that's wrong and also because it could have been any of the 50, possibly even more, that could have done so.

Just sayin'...
(Edited)
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CFT

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Hi! Champ. Maybe I just didn't hit "submit" - I remember I was working on my i-PAD on a hot coffee terrace at the time!  Shame, it was full of my usual zingers - mostly about piracy and illegal download/steaming sites!!  50 people, Eh? What an army checking out whether Spencer has a "c" or an "s" in his name.  Ah! I'm messin' with you again, Blues.

So all this work without a pay day? Well, it takes all sorts to make up our crazy business.  I thank you - seriously - for all the work you are putting into "The Dark Place."  Obviously, the owners of Blue Seraph, who were ultimately responsible for the listing, do not take IMDb as seriously as you do. 15,000 seems to be a life's work. 

Well, we are down to Spencer/Spenser/Searson/Severson. I spoke with Susan Funk, our coordinator and now my Line Producer on "Something Like Summer." She crews up a lot of our local productions.  He is not one of her regular crew and she can't remember him.  He turned up half way through the shoot on the DP's lighting crew. Looking again at the Call Sheets, we only spelt his name "Spencer" and on one call sheet "Spencer Searson."

Now the HUGE problem in modern small indie digital film production is that on-line editors type in the credit role, often in a rush.  At the same time the production personnel is stripped to a minimum - in this case just the writer-stroke-replacement director Jody Wheeler in that last room - the edit conformation - of the process.  A typo!!! Happens all the time.

I can only believe that this Spencer Severson subsequently "edit" buttoned for a name correction.  Although he has no other credits and Spencer/Spenser Searson does not exist as an entry, at least not on my IMDbPro account.

So, Champ, do what you have to do. He's no Santa Claus, or Brad Pitt! (Is there not a digital trail to him requesting a name change? I don't need an answer.)

As to the credit of "doctor" versus "surgeon" - well, I believe surgeons are doctors. Again, Jody Wheeler was obviously the final arbiter. It matters not to me. 

As to the "Kickstarter Producers" - well don't start me on that one. Surely, that must be the bain of IMDb's existence? (Again, no need to answer, Champ!)    

Have a good week. Isn't it fun to be getting along?  Tiffer
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CFT

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Update Bluesman, Susan and I can't find Spencer/Spenser/Searson/Severson.

We will have to leave it up to IMDb editors to list him however you see fit.  Only your digital breadcrumb trail will tell you whether, in fact, subsequent to whoever on our team listed him,  he put in an "Edit" name change.

Over to you. CFT
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Well, I am not to worried about Mr. Searson. Either you and your staff could have listed it right the first time, and if he indeed "corrected" it, he could have corrected it the right way...then there'd be no confusion at this point.

So, as of now it's credited properly...based on the on screen credits. Surely IMDb nor I could be faulted for going by what you and your staff supplied. If it was put there wrong, it should be corrected by spelling his name right on the heading to his page and adding the attribute (as...) as can be seen in the credits for Annie Hall:

Christopher Walken ... Duane Hall (as Christopher Wlaken)
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CFT

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C'est la vie. Typos happen. Poor ol' Christopher Wlaken. However, no "fault" is being suggested. You brought it up, Blues. You elected to be the eagle-eyes on this set of credits.  I am only responding and spending personnel time over a person who evidently floated into the "Biz" for a few days, never to work again. Hey! Ho!
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Re-reading your submission above, I miss-understood the tenure of your "voice." Yep! We have entered it on the screen credits as per the most spelling entries on the Call-sheets (in the absence of a Unit List entry, he joining the unit late.) While shooting he could have informed the production office of any miss-spelling. However, crews at this level often don't. They often don't even look at the call-sheet, just hear their call time from their department head. I see it has already been changed. That's fine by us. Good job, Champ!

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