Keywords talk and talking

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but shouldn't the keywords talk (http://www.imdb.com/search/keyword?keywords=talk) and talking (http://www.imdb.com/search/keyword?keywords=talking) be deleted and blocked?
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Marco

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Posted 1 year ago

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Nikolay Yeriomin, Champion

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Hello, Marco. 

They could be merged, but I believe that we should retain at least one of them. Firstly, it happens, there are movies with no dialogue, so we have an opposite and the counterpart should be as well for dialogue-heavy movies. 

Secondly, it happens that what is going on the title could only be described in a few words, most of them being basic. 
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Bradley Kent

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Careful of merges!  Talking should probably be deleted, but talk may refer to a speech or public-speaking.
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bderoes, Champion

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Talking is important for the transition era between silent (no dialog) and fully talking pictures. For instance, The Jazz Singer (1927), is only partially talking.
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Marco

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Talking is important for the transition era between silent (no dialog) and fully talking pictures.
Don't we have the language section for this?
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bderoes, Champion

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The Language for Sunrise (1927), which is completely silent, is English. Appropriate for the title cards, no doubt. Tells me nothing about the lack of audible dialog.

If the Advanced Title Search allowed us to request Sound Mix "not Silent", that would be the most useful. But there are 34 other Sound Mix options, and if you check more than one of them, you get only films with all the selected SMs (ex: both Mono and Stereo on the same film).

I feel an Idea post coming on.
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Nikolay Yeriomin, Champion

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By the way, if it has any writing in some language in it Silent film should have appropriate language listed.  
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Marco

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The Language for Sunrise (1927), which is completely silent, is English. Appropriate for the title cards, no doubt. Tells me nothing about the lack of audible dialog.
From the guide (https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/titles/languages/GSCRBZYEH5NX5SXL?ref_=helpms_helpart_inl...#): "The IMDb languages section records the languages spoken in titles in the database. " and "Silent Movies should be listed with a language of None and an order number of 1 ('silent' should also be added to the sound mix section). If onscreen text appears in the original version of the title, add the language that the onscreen text appears in with an order number of 2 including an attribute explaining in what form the text takes - (intertitles), for example."
So, the language section should be able to give you a complete list of all Silent Titles: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?languages=zxx.
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bderoes, Champion

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@Marco

Wow. Language "None" is buried alphabetically among the Uncommon Languages.

I appreciate your effort! Now for the road test.

I queried my list of feature films I own, 1927 or earlier release: 65 titles

Then restricted it to Sound Mix Silent: 64 titles (the missing: The Jazz Singer, which is more than 50% silent, but tagged only as Sound Mix Mono. Should really say Mono, Vitaphone and Silent. But set that aside for the moment.)

Then queried my entire list again, this time with Language None. Only 2 titles appeared, only 1 of them from pre-'28.

So thanks for the assist, but a lot of silent movies that are available to purchase are simply not coded according to the Guide. (I mostly only own the biggies: Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, Fairbanks, Griffith, de Mille. Kinda scary that the only title to be coded Language None was The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (1921).)

BTW, IMDb lists almost 129,000 titles released through 1927. The search with that date restriction and Language None yielded 286 titles.
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Marco

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bdroes,

I was also amazed "None" is buried among the Uncommon Languages. It's even weirder when you know that Croatian IS consider a Common Language, even though it is listed for only 1,826 titles while None currently has 7,468 titles attached to it (I feel a seperate thread about this coming up :))

I agree the road test isn't very good, but that means that people (perhaps you if you want) should add to the Language and Sound Mix section so it works properly. I think it's wrong to use one section (the Keywords section) to do something another section (the Language section ) should be doing.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi All -

Thanks for your feedback regarding these keywords, bderoes makes a good point above, as "Talking" does seem relevant for some titles (silent films, and even current titles like "My Dinner with Andre (1981)" and "Before Sunset (2004)"), so the keywords should remain listed separately, as
in this case some keywords can have separate meanings so it is better to
leave them separate so that it can aid the discovery of titles.  If there are titles listed incorrectly with the keyword "Talking" that may be better suited under "Talk", you can submit updates to correct the keywords on those titles.
(Edited)
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bderoes, Champion

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Thanks Michelle.

Unrelated to this thread, could you please respond to 
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/in-old-chicago-1937-s-b-1938
which is marked closed, but the year has still not changed for this film.
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Marco

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If there are titles listed incorrectly with the keyword "Talking" that may be better suited under "Talk", you can submit updates to correct the keywords on those titles.
Well, given the fact these keywords can mean lots of different things, I think they can be added to most titles of the database, so I won't touch them. I do see your point, but I just think they're more clutter than of use, especially if people start adding them to all talkies ever made. I think keywords like "monologue" or "public-speaking" are much more useful for this.