Maigret (1991, Bruno Cremer) mixed language in series episode titles

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Hello all,

I'm on a Maigret sweep this week. :-) This post is part question and part data inconsistency issue (maybe).

I was looking up all the Maigret listings and came across the original French version with Bruno Cremer: 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0167644/episodes?season=1&ref_=tt_eps_sn_1. I'm seeing some of the episodes entered with the original French title and others entered with the English title but on these the "original title" field has been filled in indicating the original French title.

My question is "What are the guidelines for a show originating in another country with non-English titles as the original title?". Should the titles be entered as per the original production or are they supposed to be put in as English and then ideally add the original title in the provided field? My assumption is that this version of Maigret was broadcast in French as opposed to originated in France but was produced in English. I haven't been able to find much on the original production so I'm assuming the original titles were in French.

The complete list of French titles can be seen here: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pisodes_de_Maigret_(1991-2005).

If needed I can certainly clean this up if this is something I can do. I didn't see anything about changing names of shows on the "edit page" or maybe this can be done at the back end.

BTW: Different sources show this laid out differently. Some show this as multiple seasons and others as one long season. I'm not sure which is correct but is outside the scope of my question.

Thanks all.


Karen
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Karen Norton

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Posted 2 years ago

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Eboy

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To me it seems that all the episode titles are listed in French (as they should be in this case).

Season/episode order is a good question. I doubt that the first season includes over 50 episodes. So I’m sure these should be added under multiple seasons. The question is that where to check the original French episode order.

This site lists nine seasons, but no idea is this also the correct French order:
https://mhzchoice.vhx.tv/buy?code=SPR...
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Karen Norton

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Thanks Vincent!!
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Karen Norton

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Thanks Eboy,

I can only assume if you're seeing this in French then the info is displaying based on a user's profile and how the info is entered in. I have attached a screenshot of what I'm seeing. For example Ep1 I see as French (Maigret et la grande perche) but  Ep6 I see as "Night at the Crossroads" but when I click into it there is another field below the title called "original title" and I see "Maigret et la nuit du carrefour". I can only assume someone entered both the English and French titles for this and other episodes. Further down in this screenshot you can see Ep10 is showing in English as well "The Man on the Bench".

At minimum it looks like the information has been entered in inconsistently so it provides a less than desirable user experience.

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Karen Norton

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And here's what I'm seeing if I click into "Night at the Crossroads". As you can see there is another field below it with the French title. As mentioned I can only assume some of the episodes have been entered with both FR/EN title info and others have only been entered with the FR info.

I know there is a lot of dynamic display functionality based on a user's profile, settings, IP address, etc. but it only works well if all the data is entered in. If not then depending on how it was entered some people will see it correctly and others get a mixed experience.

Having said all of this I just found the field to add to the title so I will go through and make sure both FR/EN are showing. The field was way at the bottom of the page under "edit page". I was looking at the top. Grrr.

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Peter, Champion

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I see the English titles when I switch my title preference to United States. The episodes appear to have American aka titles.

Unfortunately, aka titles cannot actually be added to episodes at this time. The titles may have been added at a time when the episodes were listed as TV movies.
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Karen Norton

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Hi Peter. Thanks for this. Ya... I just discovered the "aka's" can't be added/updated. I thought the field could be updated in the "Episode Title / Number" field but, as you mentioned, it can't. Is there a way to submit to have this updated at the back end?

Are there plans to add this as an editable field?

Thanks!!

Karen
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Vincent Fournols

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Hi Karen,

Not sure I fully understand your queries :) And I am not quite familiar with the character, but I can assure that the whole Maigret series starring Bruno Cremer were shot in French for, and initially broadcasted, on French TV.

And if you want to be complete, you can also work further on the 1970's version with Jean Richard, and of course, all the movies with Albert Préjean, Harry Baur, Jean Gabin :)
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Eboy

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Some episodes were actually shot in other European countries. E.g. in one episode Maigret travels Finland and that episode is directed by the Finnish director (also including Finnish actors). But the main language was still French, I believe.

This book says ”14 seasons” (54 x 90 min):
https://books.google.fi/books?id=02iV...
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Vincent Fournols

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It may perfectly be so, even though some small parts may have been in Finnish with French subtitles, but French would be the main language for sure.

The season concept is rather new to French programming, dating back to about 10 years under the influence of the US soaring. But previous popular programs (and Maigret sure was) were not designed in terms of seasons.
(Edited)
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Karen Norton

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Thanks everyone for your replies. My original query is that I'm seeing some of the titles in English and not French (see my screenshots). Peter confirmed there is a field called "aka" that someone can fill in with alternate titles when a show/movie is created in the system (but can't be updated later).

It looks like whomever put in those episodes used this field to add in an English title. I thought this title was only used for shows/movies that were released with different names (maybe originally went by one name and then re-released s another.) I didn't think that field was used to add another language for a title. I always assumed a title should be entered in based on how it was original produced. In this case French so the aka field shouldn't be used in this  situation (but maybe I'm wrong). :-)

In any case it looks like that field was used for some of the episodes to add in the English title but it wasn't used in others  which is why I'm seeing a mixed bag of titles. It sounds like if I change my profile to United States (I'm in Canada) then I will see  everything in English (maybe).

Thanks again for everyone's input!!


Karen
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Stephane

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Hi Karen,

First, the title you see in large print is a display title, which is displayed in the language of the region where you live. This is not about the original language(s) of the episode. As I live in a French-language region, only the title of the original episode in French appears in the header of the IMDb page.

Then, the concept of "seasons" in the specific case of this television series is somewhat biased. You should know that this series has been renewed on the basis of contracts signed with Bruno Cremer, the star of the series in the title role. Cremer's first contract will be spread over 12 episodes, from 1991 to 1994. His second contract (still 12 TV Movies) runs from 1994 to 1996 and almost ended there. The third period (6 TV Movies) runs from 1996 to 1999. The fourth (12 TV Movies) from 2000 to 2003 and the fifth and last (12 TV Movies) from 2003 to 2005. We can not talk about seasons in the strict sense because they do not exist, at least not in the sense of seasons renewed on an annual basis.

You can find consistent information in French at these two addresses.

(Edited)
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Stephane

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Hello everyone,

I am not really satisfied with the answer I gave above. So I decided to try a little personal investigation about the display question. I went on my IMDb account's Site Settings, under the Update general site preferences section. I first noticed that there are no indicated preferences about Title display country/language. So I selected Canada/English in order to get the same display as Karen, which did not work as expected. On the other hand, the United Kingdom/English settings gave the expected result. I also tried Finland/Finnish, to get most of the first 24 episodes displayed in Finnish and all the others in French. I can also suspect that different parameters outside IMDb play a special role, as emphasized by Karen.

I then explored every field in edit mode and did not find any field with existing data that can explain from which sources come the displayed title other than French. Is there any hidden field (like the Alternate Titles field, not available) containing data or some links between IMDb and other sources on internet?

Now I returned to my original Title display country/language settings, and there is no more French display (when aka available) for titles in other original language like I had before. It's fine with me because that annoyed me, especially in the display of filmographies. But why identical settings give suddenly different display?

(Edited)
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Peter, Champion

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I checked IMDb Pro, and the aka titles are actually listed there on each episode's page.

As I suggested above, this series was once listed as separate TV movies, and the aka titles could have been added then. They are apparently retained even though the update form does not allow aka titles to be added to episodes.
(Edited)
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Stephane

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Thank you, Peter. Do you know the reasons why there is no field in the update form for Alternate Titles in connection with TV episodes, and consequently no display titles in Release Dates section, except for IMDb Pro users?
(Edited)
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Peter, Champion

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Not exactly. You would think that it would be simple to allow it.
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Eboy

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Based on this thread, perhaps this ”single season” approach is correct for this series. I’m not quite sure how ”seasons” are decided anyway with some of the TV series. Usually there’s a clear break between seasons etc.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi All -

I just wanted to follow-up here and clarify that our system currently does not support AKA title listings on episode titles, the reason why some of the episodes for this series have AKA titles is that these episodes were once listed as stand-alone titles that were later changed to episodes.  The non-original language titles have now been removed from these episode pages and the change should be live on the site shortly.  Therefore, only the original language title will display.  Cheers!