Poll Suggestion: Most Frightening Subliminal Suspens Horror Movies

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  • (Edited)
Intro:

Since quiet a time, the horror movie industry produces several high
quality movies which reach the audience by the effect of subliminal
elements like shadows on the wall, subliminal background sounds,
horrific dream sequences, strange behavior of the characters, or simply silent appearences of deceased
people, rather than only simple jump-scares or only gore. Which of these movies gave you the hardest goosebumps and fried neckbones? (If you haven't watched one of them, which one are you most interested in?) Discuss here.

Rules:

No movies examples as a wildcard rated below 6/10, no pure gore movies like 'Saw', 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', etc. No animes, cartoons, documentations. Mixed gore & suspense allowed, if suspense is king. Movies that have several (future) parts have to be declared as franchise, spin-off or series. If the first part is rated as 5/10 and a sequell is rated 6/10, give me the sequell. the first part is included. Orientation on the highest rated part of the franchises, series, spin-offs. Since 'The Conjuring' and 'Insidious' are not clearly stated as one franchise, I take both as series.

List: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls093658037/

Poll: ?

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Breumaster

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Posted 3 months ago

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Breumaster

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I know that 'Insidious', 'The Conjuring' and 'Annabelle' are related, but Insidious was first, later conjuring and  spin-offs for Annabelle, but I see them as seperated lines of a series. Insidious has it's own spin-offs (Mexican like/Japanese) and Annabelle is not strong enough connected to Insidious to call it one franchise. So I use three wildcards for these three story-lines.
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Gitte Løyche

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The gothic horror in Crimson Peak contained some of the most scary ghosts I've ever seen
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mihailo.razvigor

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The Babadook is [SPOILERS!] -------------- primarily a movie about mental health issues, disguised as a supernatural horror film. It's so brilliantly done, that you might not even notice there is nothing supernatural about it. It's all about grief, and coping with it.
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Breumaster

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Thank you mihailo. :D
I've put your suggestion to the list. :D
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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FYC:

1. 
The Evil Dead (1981) - My favorite (Actually my most favorite is Saw but...)
 
2. Mama (2013) - One of the most underrated horror movies (6.2/10)

3. Psycho (1960)

4. The Thing (1982)
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mihailo.razvigor

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The Thing is my favorite horror film. It builds a feeling of dread and paranoia, and is a good inclusion for this list.

The Evil Dead, however, is everything BUT subliminal. I mean, I like it very much, but its main draw is its gore. There's nothing subtle about that film.
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Breumaster

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No, 'The Thing' is more about shocking gore-effects. Same for 'The Evil Dead'. I count them more to gore movies with atmosphere. 'Mama' is debateable. I'll put 'Psycho' to the list.
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Breumaster

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I just saw, you meant Mama from 2013. I guess I just messed up two movies. Ok, Mama (2013) with chastain is in. I'll put it to the list. ;D
(Edited)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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Hi Breu!
You may want to correct a spelling error my friend.
Suspens is actually spelled, suspense.
Cheers.
Happy Hew Year.
:):)
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Breumaster

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Happy New Year, Ed! :D Thank you, I corrected it instantly.
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Breumaster

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*bumpallow*?
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Mr. Pink

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No gore?

Hereditary shouldn't be on the list.

35-40% of the movie has gore.

I recently watched it, I remember.
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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No, I didn't say no gore. I said "... no pure gore ..." movies. The suspense in Hereditary is a mix of many strong suspense moments and some gory parts. I let it stay on the list, because the main factor which makes it frightening is the suspense that has it effect from beginning to end. The gory moments wouldn't be 1/10 as frightening without the suspense. It's not only the atmospheric suspense that shadows the movie over 75% of playtime, there are also frightening moments, when Annie sees her dead mother sitting in the dark corner and elements like that. These are at least 3 times more often than the gory scenes. I did like the moments, when the tongue snap re-appears, after Charlie died. I think such moments are a dozend times more frightening than "normal" jump scares or pure gore.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Breumaster, there is no 'pure gore' in movie. It is a bit of a nonsencical term.  

Because we're not talking about snuff movies here and even the gore in the most severe horror movies are elaborate kinetic sculptures, just that. Nowadays oftentimes with a slight sprinkle of CGI to have a better illusion, or a worse one. 
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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Corrections:

Hey Breumaster, I found some errors in your list's description. Please correct them.

1. "Please notice that ..." > "Please note that ..."

2. "It's a bout the ..." > "It's about the ..."

3. I suggest replacing the word "biggest" with "spookiest."

4. I'd also suggest putting a line break after "... jump-scares or only gore." and before asking the question, i.e., "Which of these movies ..."
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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Thank, you.
But I re-wrote the intro in the last 20 Minutes.
I'll check, if the parts are still in the text.
Also shortened the intro a little. ;D
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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Oh sorry, I didn't know you were editing it. I should've checked the Updated tag.

But yeah, thank YOU for shortening the description. :) <3
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Breumaster

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Please look at the list, I guess the problem solved itself.
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Breumaster

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Sorry, our postings were typed simultaniously. :D
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BONAFIDE BOSS ⭐️

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The reason I asked to replace the word "biggest" with "spookiest" is that I doubt goosebumps can be big or small.

Pardon me if they are, I just never heard someone saying, "I got the biggest goosebump of my life," lol.

Also, a line break before the question will be much appreciated! <3


Btw, I got a few more suggestions for you.

1. You can modify "the effect of subliminal elements" with "Subliminal effects."

2. "subliminal background sounds" with "chilling soundtracks" or "scary soundtracks."

Thank you for reading.
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Breumaster

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I did not only think of the backgroud music, It's more about sound effects like terrifiying sound of dark corners, rooms or the howling of wolves in a distance, somthing like that. Music included, but as you see - not only.
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Breumaster

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The goosebumps come from the pores of the skin. When I watch a moviewhich is really scary, the hairs on my arm stand up and I can see the goosebumps. The more scary the movie becomes, the more clear I can see the goosebumps. Isn't there a word for in English? My goosebumps don't become more, they only become visually more clear to see.
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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Shortened it to "subliminal effects". :D
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Breumaster

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I changed "subliminal background sounds" to
"chilling noises"
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Breumaster

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Added option "I rather watch some other movies"
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cinephile

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"No pure gore movies like 'Saw', 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre', etc."

I think that the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre should be allowed, it is a misconception, the movie is not "pure gore", it is almost gore-free, it is way more gory than most of the movies already on the list:

See the certifications: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072271/parentalguide
 It is not even in the SEVERE category for violence.
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cinephile

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There is some suspense too, the image bellow proves it, it got a Severe for Frightening and Intense Scenes
(Edited)
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Breumaster

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No, it is a pure gore movie and nothing else. Nothing in it is subliminal. If I want see slaughtering, I can go to a slaughterhouse. There is not any movie which fits worse than 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' to this idea.
(Edited)
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albstein

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This proves that The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a subliminal film. Eerie scenery, strange costumes, sound effects, editing and effective directing suggest much more violence in your head than you could ever see on screen. Here's an article to back the claim. Brian de Palma achieved the same in Scarface.
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Breumaster

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albstein, did you see the other movies on the list? You are not about to tell me that 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' fits into that row anyway?! Did you read the intro? A chainsaw isn't really a subliminal element. The threatening situation you describe is a basic element of every horror movie. Just made in another way and that's the point! Not even the sound in TCM is subliminal. What exact would be the subliminal element (visual/auditive) in TCM? It not even has atmosphere. I don't click articles on websites I don't know, please list the points by headword.
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cinephile

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I'm not a fan of "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (I rated it only 6/10), but I can argue all day that this movie is not pure-gore, especially the last scene. I believe that "The Conjuring" is way worst in terms of "pure gore".

 Also, it is clear that your opinion of this movie is based on your rating of 4/10. I'm trying to be as objective as possible, I even provided evidence from the "Parent Guide" to support my idea. 

Furthermore, I know movies that can really be considered as pure gore

Example:

Cannibal Holocaust
100 tears
Dead Alive
Saw (I agree with you on that one)
etc.

Also, I think that the Poll Board should choose whether or not a controversial movie is eligible or not, not only the author. It would avoid censure. I also don't believe that polls should be dictated by random or subjective rules,  and as far as I know, there is no officially released checklist of "Pure-gore movies".

Finally, I found Rating certification for my region (which also represents my point) since the MPAA doesn't provide a reason for the rating I deleted some unuseful parts.

 [...]Un des premiers films d’une nouvelle génération de cinéastes qui ont réinventé le cinéma d’épouvante en utilisant des images explicites produites par des effets spéciaux sanglants, il surprend aujourd’hui par sa relative économie de moyen et la brièveté, pour ne pas dire la rareté des images extrêmes. À l’origine d’une nouvelle façon de décrire l’horreur au cinéma qui a depuis dépassé largement son modèle, ce film, non dénué d’un humour grotesque, conserve essentiellement sa force, aujourd’hui, grâce à son climat trouble et morbide[...]

Translation (google translate):
One of the first films of a new generation of filmmakers who reinvented horror cinema using explicit images produced by bloody special effects, he surprises today by his relative economy of means and brevity, not to say the rarity of extreme images. At the origin of a new way of describing the horror in the cinema which has since largely exceeded its model, this film, not devoid of a grotesque humor, essentially retains its strength, today, thanks to its troubled climate and morbid

(Edited)
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Breumaster

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I'm not censoring. There were three other suggestion from other users that fit for the idea. I took them on the list. I'm not censoring, but TCM still doesn't fit to the idea. Maybe someone with better language-skills can tell you better what's the idea. At least two fellows, other users on the board did get what I meant and made fitting suggestions.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Breumaster, The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974) was one of Stanley Kubrick's favorite movies. No, really. If Mr. Kubrick is not an authority on subliminal movies for you, I don't know who is. 

Are we sure you're not confusing the original 1974 movie with a 2003 remake which, while decent, is just that - an average horror movie? Because so far you sound like you haven't even seen the 1974 original and just judge it by the title and inclusion of the word "chainsaw", which is used as a murder weapon in a whopping one scene of this movie.  "Pure gore movie". Really?.. The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974) has more in common with The Exorcist (1973) and Poltergeist (1982), latter being by the same director (just in case: I am not subscribing to theory it's mostly ghost directed by Spielberg, even if he had a lot of input and directed some shots), than with any gore movie I've ever seen. And believe me, I've seen aplenty because I am a very inclusive film fan. Some of the worst, unfortunately, came from your country, Germany, as years of super-oppressive censorship breed a special kind of dismissive and transgressive filmmakers, who might have worsened the situation, mostly making exactly mindless gore movies, just to prove a point to censorpship boards. Essentially, fighting wrong with wrong produced more wrong. So far, the only director whom I find sublime out of this wave is Jörg Buttgereit, whose movies I find oddly interesting, thematic and well made for the subject matter. He might have started with the same motivation of angering the censorship board, but he evolved into a true artist in the process,   

I am sorry if I sound hostile, Breumaster (I'm pretty sure I do, I get too defensive about the movies I like), but this movie has a well-deserved place in movie history. You might not be aware of it, you might outright deny it, but that won't change the fact. Because the fact is that this movie relies on suspense, atmosphere and much more subliminal elements than it does on fewer shots of gore, for which it never had proper budget, nor it attempted to acquire it for that specific matter. People were not suffering 18+ hour workshifts to make a simplistic gorefest. They made a much deeper point you fail to notice, because there is a word "chainsaw" in the title. Which I just find sad, because, really, judging a movie by it's title is not exactly a great strategy. 

Heck, the way movie starts sets the atmosphere with so little, it's amazing and it uses a sound no one would've considered frightening in another environment and makes a chill of the century out of it. It's one of the best opening scenes period, any genre. 
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I did not consider the list but the words with which you commented here.

Some examples after looking through some youtube clips (for a more detailed description I'd have to re-watch the movie):
-the first moments we see nothing, only hear some indiscriminate sounds
-There are image of vast, open, sunny landscapes at the beginning which contrasts the narrow, dark confines in the house where everything turns bad.
-some of the characters move and behave almost comically but this is another contrast used to make things eerie and let their bad actions stand out more. Leatherface comes off like a clumsy child that doesn't get what it wants towards the end.
-When a hitchhiker enters the car and he cuts his hand, we see very little of the blood and much of the shock in the others' eyes; it's not about the blood but about the fact that he would do such a thing, and laugh at it
-when thrown out of the car, the hitchhiker throws his hands up in the air as if he were a hippie who becomes one with nature; he disappears among the vegetation or to say it better in German, er geht in der Natur auf while he standing there with his green shirt. An out of place moment for a horror movie.
-the gas station and the house look old, desolate, and run-down. The young, attractive people look out of place there.
-camera shots that suggest someone's point of view without that we know who's watching -> you feel that the protagonists are in danger
-we see and hear the chainsaw, we're clearly shown a hook, but we see little of the killing that takes place. The big close-up of the hook is enough to suggest the most horrific images in our minds.
-much of the film doesn't have directly to do with any killing
-after scenes in the leatherface house, one of the women returns to the gas station, which briefly seems to be a refuge and place of civilization.

But I don't suggest you add the movie. During the second half it is unsubtly about maniacs chasing people to kill them. I just wanted to object to your absolute statements like "pure gore" and comparing it to going to the slaughterhouse.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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FYC: 
Eraserhead (1977) - God knows why exactly it gives people, me included, panic attacks, but it does. Surreal imagery might be intense at times, but it's the existential dread that gets me in it. "In Heaven everything is fine". Too bad on Earth we're still suffering. 
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Breumaster

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Nikolay:
I will put 'Eraserhead' to the list.
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Breumaster

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Done. :D
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Breumaster

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Re-watched 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre':

The first 5 minutes look with photographers and the sounds aren't really subtl. Some mutilated bodies are placed on the graveyard. Pure Gore. The following 20 minutes look like a dull hobby film of a bunch of young hippies with one gore element. The first time I saw something subtl in that movie is, when the young people come to the abandoned house, where one of the young men finds a spidernest in a top corner of a room. Minute: 26.

Next is hippies searching for someone to ask for a gas station, 35 minutes: One young man gets his head smashed by leatherface with a sledge-hammer, pure-gore-element. The young woman comes into the house and not very subtl boneshow beginns. Tobe Hooper does not use this part subliminal, he hammer the images of the bones into your head. A boneshow. He uses not subtl or decent placed noises in a real screaming noise-shower into the ears of the audience. 38. minute.

Leatherface gets her, minute 39. The whole time she screames loud and then get hooked on a slaughter-hook and then Leatherface turns on his chainsaw. Gore. They search for Kirk in the dusk. Minute 46: Leatherface kills another guy with his hammer on the head and without any subliminal things around, the only thing is, that the found the hooked maiden a few seconds earlier in the fridge and some deep background music and some weired and pretentious sound effects. But still not subtl. Pure Gore.

Minute 47: A creepy scene of the moon by moving clouds! 10 seconds of shivers! The guy in the wheelchair and the blonde woman fight for the flashlight, no shivers – it just looks like an awkward and embarrassing clinch. Minute 50: They split, another scene showing the moon. Minute 52: LF slaughteres the guy in the wheelchair without any subtl or subliminal effects around. He just saws, she is back and screams, looks how LF slaughteres about 20 seconds while screaming. Pure gore.

From there on you hear the saw running until end, except the table scene. Minute 56 1⁄2: LF hunts the blondie with his saw. Very subtl. ;) What Mr. Eastwood would do about that? Hmmm? 1 hour: A guy beats the blond with a broom. Ok, that's not gory. 1h11m30s: Another moon scene. Didn't remember the table scene. But also not subtl or subliminal. Just a bunch of weirdos misbehaving. 1h18: They try to kill the blonde with a hammer. The rest: A truck rolls over the weirdo, the one from beginning. LF slightly saws his leg and then the chainsaw dance.

End of report.


Guys, these are all shocking horror elements, but none of them is subtl or subliminal. My problem with it is: If I put it on the list, the next one comes and says: You must put 'Dawn of the Dead' on the list. Why? Because you have that gory slaughter-movie 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' on the list. Then I could skip the list and it wouldn't make any sense. Has anyone of you watched some of the movies on the list? Please do. It's a major difference, if there are subliminal elements that prepare gory moments or just gore with some creepy background noises.

As I said, 2 fellows got it from beginning.

(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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These are good points, to be honest. 

I guess it's the problem of formulation. The Texas Chain Saw Massacre (1974) and Dawn of the Dead (1978) are both gory and subtle. They both have graphic violence, but both have very subtle commentary and moments. 
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cinephile

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Breu, I believe that you should take into consideration the opinion of the IMDb Poll Board.

I, Nikolay and Albstein have all stated the movie is not "pure-gore", and at then end, you aren't the only person who is gonna vote for this movie.

Your opinion is highly subjective, and I believe that you based your decision on the rating that you gave to the movie, You rated it 4/10.
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Breumaster

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No, I wrote my point over and over again. Believeing is like speculating. 3 Users are not the complete poll board. My idea wouldn't be the same. Btw: Your opinion is highly subjective, too.
(Edited)
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celluloidwickerman: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre - Tobe Hooper (1974)

"The images it can conjure up are far more distressing than what is actually on show. [...] In the end, the film is not the gory horror fest that it’s often made out to be. [...]
Hooper cuts away from all of the potential gory entrails which latter day directors are so obsessed with lapping up and yet the film still packs a punch. [...]
The final shot of the film is graceful and almost beautiful and it’s something that is rather puzzling in its execution.  We feel a sense of relief at the final teenager’s outcome but the film is more interested on Leatherface who is almost dancing with his Chainsaw as the beating Texas sun begins to rise for another day in the hellish life of the best movie monsters since Karloff’s monster."

esquire: 11 Things You Didn't Know about The Texas Chainsaw Massacre

"The film is an allegory of the Vietnam War [...] The Texas Chainsaw Massacre also belongs to the New Hollywood movement that was happening during the 1970s, an era when films were being influenced by the pervasive disillusionment resulting from events like Watergate and the Vietnam War. "I was reacting to life around me, as I knew it," says Hooper [...] "One of the most amazing tricks in filmmaking in the [horror] genre is the fact that when you really look at the movie, you realize there is almost no blood or graphic violence onscreen," Aja says. "It's the editing, the rawness, the craziness of what you see that makes the experience so intense. Your mind creates what you don't see in the movie and fills in the gaps to see all the 'massacre' that Hooper doesn't actually show onscreen." [...]
Hooper's horror opus has been cited as an influence on various filmmakers, films, and television series for four decades now, most recently HBO's True Detective. Wes Craven counts The Texas Chainsaw Massacre among his five favorite movies, describing it as "amazingly visceral visual storytelling." Ridley Scott calls it one of "only a few really, really great [movies]" and used it as a reference for Alien."

middlebury: The Horror of TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE explained
"Here, the director shoots the scene in broad daylight. In doing so, Hooper offers an unsettling feeling: the bright scene exposes Leatherface’s body. No longer can the viewer understand him as an effaced antagonist. Rather, in revealing him, the film creates a sense of ordinariness. Such a scene suggests to the viewer that this kind of violence can happen in the daylight."


Oregon Artswatch: Re-Examining 'The Texas Chainsaw Massacre'
"By critical acclamation The Texas Chain Saw Massacre is unquestionably a masterpiece. That much, after 40 years of existing in the world, seems to be a simple undeniable fact. [...]
in the most recent Sight & Sound critics poll, it was voted one of the 250 greatest films ever made. [...]

“When I was 14 I saw The Texas Chain Saw Massacre... I saw that film was an art form, meaning that I saw subliminal images. That’s when I realized the power of art: it’s not what you see, it’s what you think you see... [...]

-Nicolas Winding Refn [...]

In fact, the titular cutting tool is never shown touching a person, save for Leatherface’s accident at the climax. Hooper mentions in the DVD commentary that he’s argued with countless people over the actual content of the film, to no avail." [...]

arguments have been made for various thematic and intellectual readings. What’s remarkable is how many of these particular readings by various scholars and critics are even more relevant today than when the film was released in 1974. For example, Hooper apparently stopped eating meat while making the film and saw the crux of the film as being about meat. There’s something to be said for it as a pro-vegetarian film. There’s the sense that Leatherface’s murderous, cannibalistic clan is a scathing parody of modern American families gone awry [...]"

critic.de: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre - Kritik
"Sieht man sich The Texas Chain Saw Massacre genau an, wirkt das frühere Verbot reichlich absurd. Denn was die Darstellung von Gewalt angeht, ist der Film alles andere als explizit. Tatsächlich verhält es sich hier mit dem Fleischerhaken, dem Hammer oder der Kettensäge ähnlich wie mit dem Messer in der berühmten Duschszene von Hitchcocks Psycho: Man sieht die Geräte auf den Körper zusteuern, die Penetration ins Fleisch wird aber vom Zuschauer zu Ende gedacht. [...]

eine Persiflage auf die amerikanische Familie mit ihren pervertiert überzeichneten Ritualen. Fünf Jahre vor Erscheinen des Films hatte die scheinbar letzte Bastion des konservativen Amerika durch die Morde der Manson-Family schon reichlich Schaden genommen. Hooper nimmt die Institution Familie endgültig auseinander."
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cinephile

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" Believeing is like speculating " Believing not Believeing*
(
 I kept you spelling error in the quote)

Yeah, you are right sometimes it is a synonym "speculating", but not in this case, if you have come to the results that my sentence was speculation, it is probably because you had to check the definition of "believing" on internet.

In conclusion, in this case, it was not a speculation, it was a suggestion.

One last thing, I have to give you that my opinion is subjective, but the word itself "pure-gore" is subjective, objectively, you can't talk about The Texas Chain Saw Massacre as gory compared to 100 Tears. Secondly, we are 3 against you, I don't know how you believe that your opinion is more valid than ours.
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Breumaster

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Anotherone who hangs up on slip ups. "We are three against you" - That's interesting! :(

Maybe Nikolay is right and it's just a missunderstanding. I know my lack of translation skills, but this movie still doesnt fit to the idea I have. Maybe I'll figure out a better title. Since this happen, I put this project on ice.
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Breumaster

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Until this happens - the website again didn't allow me to correct it