Pre-exisiting person not being added to cast list when I submit it

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I've added cast to "A Very British Murder with Lucy Worsley" (2013) {Detection Most Ingenious (#1.2)} http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3231676/combined and one particular person, who already existed in IMDB, has not been added although all the others have.

The ID is 170920-120613-897000 and the person is Ian Burney.

As a bit of general advice, if I find an existing person's entry with no credits / trivia / biography etc, should I use that entry or should I create a brand new one? Should I have used the "blank" Ian Burney that already existed, or should I have created Ian Burney (II)?
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Martin

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Posted 2 years ago

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Peter, Champion

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Remember to select a category when you post here. I've added the right category.
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Martin

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Apologies. I've posted here many times and I never knew about the category - only the "problem", "idea" etc classification. I'll look out for the category field when I post again.
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Eboy

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You should never "create" a new page (II, III, IV, etc) for a person IF you're sure he already exists. This is obvious, of course.


But in your case it could be that the "blank" Ian Burney actually has some credits, they're just "uncredited" so they don't show yet. Maybe IMDb could check.
(Edited)
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Martin

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Eboy, that's a fair point. I wonder if he does have some "hidden" credits.

One question for IMDB staff: if I come across a blank entry, how do I know whether he is really blank and therefore should be used in preference to creating a new (II) entry, or whether he has hidden credits in which case I should create a new entry for the cast I'm adding? Should I assume that the blank entry is someone else and create a new one, and then merge it into the original one if it is found that they are the same person? I'm looking for guidance as to what to do at the point of adding an episode with cast and crew, without needing to leave out dubious entries, raise a GetSatisfaction question to ask "does Ian Burney have any hidden credits that appear to be relevant to the title I'm adding" and then go back and re-visit the title some time later - after allowing for the interminable delay between creating a title and being able to add/correct what I've submitted.
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Eboy

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Blank entry question is a very good one. It's pretty difficult to know anything about the name that is "blank". Many people probably create a new roman numeral just in case.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Martin -

I saw that the cast credit update you referenced was approved and the credit was added to a new page listing for "Ian Burney" here; however, because this individual has no credited entries, the 'uncredited' listing is not eligible to be displayed on the site.

If you see a blank page listing on the site, it could be for the following reasons:

1) The page was created through an IMDbPro Resume Account and no data has been added to the page
2) The page includes ineligible 'uncredited' entries
3) The page once had credits listed that have since all been removed.

Unfortunately, by looking at an empty page there is no way to determine why the page is blank.  In these cases, it's best to report these pages to IMDb staff who can take a look, otherwise, blank name pages (that don't include any credits) will automatically be removed from the site after a set period of time.

When submitting credits, if you are not certain that the credits belong to the listed name, you should submit the credit to a new page listing, if later it is determined that the credits belong to the same person, the pages can easily be combined.  I hope this information helps!
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Martin

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I understand most of this but I'm not clear why the credited entry that added for Ian Burney hasn't appeared. I could understand if it had been uncredited but it's not.
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Martin

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Can you check 171007-104331-192000 which I submitted before the Oldest Item date for Filmography: Cast on https://contribute.imdb.com/times, so it should be visible by now.

I've created a brand new person this time, rather than re-using an existing, apparently blank person.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Martin -

To clarify, the "A Very British Murder with Lucy Worsley" credit for the episode "Detection Most Ingenious" is already credited to Ian Burney on the existing filmography page here.  However, the credit is not displayed on the page because the credit is listed as 'uncredited' and is not eligible to be displayed until Mr. Burney has a credited entry listed on the site.

I was able to see that the credit update you referenced was rejected because our editors detected that this was a duplicate credit submission.  Since the credit already exists, you shouldn't re-submit the credit for a separate page listing on the site.  If Mr. Burney was credited on-screen for his role on the episode, please post a screen grab here and upon verification, our staff can then adjust the credit.  I hope this information helps, let us know if you have additional questions.
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Martin

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When I submitted the credit for Ian Burney (I) - the existing one - I gave him a credit order of 2 and no "uncredited" attribute but from what you are saying it seems as if this has got recorded on the system with an uncredited flag. He *was* credited (as a namecheck in the commentary, just like all the other cast) but IIRC for that episode no cast were given on-screen captions, so there's nothing to screengrab - even if I still had my recording of the episode.

So the justification for making Ian Burney "credited" is as strong (or as weak) as that for all the rest of the cast - apart from Lucy Worsley the presenter who definitely was credited.

I think you were right to block the duplicate Ian Burney (II) credit, but it seems that Ian Burney (I) is being treated differently to all the other cast for that episode.
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Martin

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Here's proof. I found the episode still available on BBC iPlayer so here's a still with the subtitles turned on https://s1.postimg.org/7fxx03kjbj/Burney_-_i_Player.png
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi Martin -

Thanks for posting the screen grab, however, unfortunately if Mr. Burney's name was only spoken and not credited on-screen, the credit is listed correctly with the 'uncredited' attribute.
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Martin

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It's a shame that IMDB chooses to exclude spoken credits as an introduction to an interview, because it means that the same type of appearance is either credited or not credited based on the whim of the TV director as to whether or not he chooses to display captions. I've seen some TV documentary series where different episodes (maybe directed by different directors) either do or don't have captions for their interviewees.

To my way of thinking, as long as a person is acknowledged as being a participant, it shouldn't matter whether they get a spoken namecheck, a caption when they first appear or an entry in the end credits. To distinguish one of these cases from the others seems rather petty and unnecessarily harsh.

I would reserve "uncredited" for people who happen to appear in the background and aren't mentioned aurally or in writing.

This is sounding like a policy decision which maybe should be debated more widely than this thread. Maybe something for you to raise at an internal policy meeting some time. And to put to the submitters like myself - "do you agree or disagree with this policy".


A thought has occurred to me: supposing a person gets an acknowledged but, by IMDB rules, uncredited appearance. An entry John Smith (I) is created and the credits are hidden. Later the same person makes another appearance in another title, also acknowledged but "uncredited". The submitter may see a "blank" entry but will probably ignore it on the grounds that he can't be certain that it's the same person because he can't see the hidden credits which might make it obvious (eg if the "Himself - University of X, as Dr John Smith") matches. So to be on the safe side he creates John Smith (II). Maybe the same person now makes a third appearance - this time satisfying the credited rules - but John Smith (III) is created because we don't know that JS (I) and JS (II) are the same person as JS (III), using job title, company/university affiliation etc as a clue. How do the three person entries in IMDB ever get linked together? I presume you do have safeguards to prevent a proliferation of duplicate entries because the submitters are having to working blind.

Food for thought.
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Peter, Champion

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Michelle, this is from IMDb submission guides:

"For non-fiction titles where the people appearing on camera are generally not in a separate cast list, their first onscreen appearance where they are identified either by a caption or spoken name is used to determine their credited name and order."
https://contribute.imdb.com/updates/g...

"For documentaries or talk shows where the people appearing on camera are generally not in a separate cast list, their first onscreen appearance where they are identified either by a caption or spoken name is used to determine the order. Any narrator/host listed in opening or closing credits would be treated as the first cast member, and would precede people identified only within the documentary."
https://contribute.imdb.com/updates/g...
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Joel, Employee

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Hey,

Based off the information provided above and the existing cast listings on the title, I've removed the (uncredited) attribute from the name now.

Please allow up to 48 hours for this to reflect on all platforms.

Joel
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Martin

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Many thanks, Joel.
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Adrian, Champion

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It might have been helpful if you had said it was a non-fiction title to begin with as the cast guide is different for titles that don't have traditional begin and/or end credits. That would prevent any confusing answers from anyone that isn't familiar with the title.