There is a huge problem with credits for Puppeteers on IMDB.
They can be placed in any category it seems.
Puppeteers in any capacity should be added to the performers category and not lumped in with catering or added on to Art dept etc.
It is completely undermining the role of puppeteers who may be the creators and performers of some of the most loved characters you know. Some puppeteers are not as readily known as others but there is no difference between the two technically so Frank Oz gets credited as cast but Ronnie Le Drew and David Rudman are in other crew as "puppeteer" for Muppet Christmas Carol - Not even in "Cast" as undcredited.
Their roles are not the same weight within the film but in Star Wars ep 4 I don't see Carrie Fisher and Malcolm Tierney being separated etc despite being at opposite ends of the spectrum.
There should be some equality of crediting on imdb.
I am sure I will get told that this is up to the people uploading the info. NO!
There is no specific title for puppeteers so they will get dotted all over the place and it is not the uploaders fault trying to find the space for them.
Equity in the UK are only just getting to grips with credits for puppeteers and how they are being chucked into ancillary depts so producers don't have to negotiate rights etc purely from a monetary point of view. IMDB could be ahead of the game and start by collating all Puppeteer credits and making sure they are not sidelined or misaligned.
They can be placed in any category it seems.
Puppeteers in any capacity should be added to the performers category and not lumped in with catering or added on to Art dept etc.
It is completely undermining the role of puppeteers who may be the creators and performers of some of the most loved characters you know. Some puppeteers are not as readily known as others but there is no difference between the two technically so Frank Oz gets credited as cast but Ronnie Le Drew and David Rudman are in other crew as "puppeteer" for Muppet Christmas Carol - Not even in "Cast" as undcredited.
Their roles are not the same weight within the film but in Star Wars ep 4 I don't see Carrie Fisher and Malcolm Tierney being separated etc despite being at opposite ends of the spectrum.
There should be some equality of crediting on imdb.
I am sure I will get told that this is up to the people uploading the info. NO!
There is no specific title for puppeteers so they will get dotted all over the place and it is not the uploaders fault trying to find the space for them.
Equity in the UK are only just getting to grips with credits for puppeteers and how they are being chucked into ancillary depts so producers don't have to negotiate rights etc purely from a monetary point of view. IMDB could be ahead of the game and start by collating all Puppeteer credits and making sure they are not sidelined or misaligned.
Posted 3 years ago
Peter, Champion
The help pages also include this rule:
voiceovers, looping, adr work, stand-ins, photo doubles and puppeteers belong to the Miscellaneous Crew
http://www.imdb.com/help/search?domai...
voiceovers, looping, adr work, stand-ins, photo doubles and puppeteers belong to the Miscellaneous Crew
http://www.imdb.com/help/search?domai...
So who are your cast in Team America then?
And all of the voice cast from every animated project need to be moved?
Tom Hanks in Polar Express is not a cast member?
Your criteria is severely limited if you say you have to see the person to be part of the cast.
And all of the voice cast from every animated project need to be moved?
Tom Hanks in Polar Express is not a cast member?
Your criteria is severely limited if you say you have to see the person to be part of the cast.
Steve Crook, Champion
Them's the IMDb's rules. If you want to use the site then you have to play by their rules :)
Steve
Steve
Puppeteers (union)are paid CAST, treated as CAST on set (Trailers, hours, pay...) My Taxes are done that as an ACTOR/CAST, We are performing from a script, often giving dialogue, in character but threw a puppet, Still performing. I also perform opposite ACTORS, the leads, star ect...
Steve ( with a trophy) So don't try to tell me that we are misc. that's ridiculous and you are not qualified for that kind of opinion. Except if it is your personal opinion, that's where You think we belong.
IMDB SHOULD make the change and add Puppeteers to the CAST LIST when we are accredited.
That is what we are asking for them to CORRECT. We think it does Not reflect Union Performers, 'Puppeteers' accurately.
I hope they are listening to this discussion.
Steve ( with a trophy) So don't try to tell me that we are misc. that's ridiculous and you are not qualified for that kind of opinion. Except if it is your personal opinion, that's where You think we belong.
IMDB SHOULD make the change and add Puppeteers to the CAST LIST when we are accredited.
That is what we are asking for them to CORRECT. We think it does Not reflect Union Performers, 'Puppeteers' accurately.
I hope they are listening to this discussion.
Not fully sure why the old thread is resurrected, but ”puppeteers” belong to ”Other Crew”. Voice work (voice of the puppets) obviously belongs to ”Acting”. The person designing/making the actual puppets belong to ”Art Department”. I have some older (still relatively recent) threads about the subject.
In many cases the person voicing AND puppeteering the character receives two credits: one in acting (with ”voice” attribute) and one in Other crew (”puppeteer”). Perhaps not ideal (since it’s hard to argue that skillful puppeteering is NOT ”acting”), but that’s the way IMDb prefers to handle these credits.
( It’s also good to remember that several puppeteering techniques are used in different programs - and even within the same program. There can be traditional hand puppets, puppets with rods and strings - or other similar ways to ”move” the puppets, marionette style with wires, etc) )
In many cases the person voicing AND puppeteering the character receives two credits: one in acting (with ”voice” attribute) and one in Other crew (”puppeteer”). Perhaps not ideal (since it’s hard to argue that skillful puppeteering is NOT ”acting”), but that’s the way IMDb prefers to handle these credits.
( It’s also good to remember that several puppeteering techniques are used in different programs - and even within the same program. There can be traditional hand puppets, puppets with rods and strings - or other similar ways to ”move” the puppets, marionette style with wires, etc) )
(Edited)
"belong to ”Other Crew”. Voice work (voice of the puppets) obviously belongs to ”Acting”
Why obviously? It is not obvious at all, It is a bogus theory just the same as the Puppeteer is not seen argument.
Puppeteers create a character whether it has a voice or not and that character can be just as much a cast member as anyone else.
And why you feel the techniques matter is beyond me, May as well start separating actors who come from the Stanislavsky school or the Brechtian style. You still get a performance and it moves people or tells a story.
Why obviously? It is not obvious at all, It is a bogus theory just the same as the Puppeteer is not seen argument.
Puppeteers create a character whether it has a voice or not and that character can be just as much a cast member as anyone else.
And why you feel the techniques matter is beyond me, May as well start separating actors who come from the Stanislavsky school or the Brechtian style. You still get a performance and it moves people or tells a story.
Ed Jones(XLIX)
Tim Sykes
Nor Mary Pickford.... etc etc
And oh yeah Kenny Baker why does he get a credit for R2 D2?
Isn't he just a horses ar se in your criteria?
Ed Jones(XLIX)
Ed Jones(XLIX)
Tim Sykes