Question about cast ordering of Alien

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It appears the cast ordering for Alien is wrong, though it is verified as correct. Currently, the last two credits for cast are: Bolaji Badejo as Alien and Helen Horton as Mother (voice). Neither of these credits are in the "cast of character" section, so I wonder if they should be listed in the cast section at all; however, if they are listed in the cast, they should actually be the first credits, not the last. See the screen captures below. You can see the credit for Alien and Mother are at the 1:55:51 mark while the "cast of characters" starts around 1:56:04.

Should these be corrected to show the on screen order? Should Alien and Mother be removed since they aren't listed in the cast section? 



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Adrian, Champion

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Posted 1 month ago

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Peter, Champion

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One could argue that "the most comprehensive cast list" is the "cast of characters", so for cast order purposes the credits in that list have priority.
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Adrian, Champion

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Then one would have to argue that the credits for Alien and Mother should not appear.
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Peter, Champion

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No, because the rule about "the most comprehensive cast list" concerns cast order. Other cast credits are allowed.
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Adrian, Champion

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There is absolutely nothing in the cast guide that allows a "complete" cast order to be credited before other credits. It should be completely obvious that credits should be in the order the occurred. "The most comprehensive cast list" should only apply when it includes the entire cast, which is not the case for Alien, in which actors are credited before the "complete cast" credits. This is yet another case of IMDb forcing a square peg into a circular hole. Please, show how anything in the cast guide allows for previous credits to follow "the most comprehensive cast". If anything, these should not be cast credits.

https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/cast-acting-credits-guidelines/GH3JZC74FVYKKFMD?ref_=helpsrall#castorders
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Adrian, Champion

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How in the world is this answered? It is not and does not explain why credits are out of order from the on screen listings.
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Eboy

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I don’t understand why we should delete credits based on the guide of credit order? When these are not even ”uncredited” credits and the guide doesn’t even mention that ”credits before the actual cast list are not allowed” or something along those lines.

Let’s not hang ourselves in the rule book. We all known that there are exceptions. And then some exceptions to those exceptions. Alien just has some unusual ordering with credits.
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Adrian, Champion

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If you don't follow the rules, then you have no way for people to collaborate and enter data. I don't necessarily believe they should be deleted out of the cast but if you are ordering by the "complete cast order" then these are not cast credits and should be moved to the correct department. Badejo's credit appears to be a stunt credit and Horton's probably belongs in Other Crew as it is likely an ADR credit. However, if you list them as cast, they should be first as they appear first in the scroll. I cannot think of another movie where credits that appear first are listed last.
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Will, Official Rep

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Eboy is correct here, this is a strange example. We go by the order as stated in the most complete cast list. The way they are currently listed makes the most sense in relation to our policies.
(Edited)
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Adrian, Champion

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Except it doesn't make any sense either logically or in accordance to the policies. I cannot think of a single case in the 10,000+ titles I've edited where the cast is not in order that they appear in the credits. If you go in order of "most complete cast" these last two credits do not belong in the cast listing at all. You could argue that Badejo's credit is a stunt credit and Horton's credit is an ADR. There is nothing in the guide nor can I remember a single other case where credits that are listed first in the scroll are listed last in cast ordering.

However, if you are going to include them in the cast, they should be first, not last in relationship to how the credits are show on screen. This is a basic premise to all ordered lists in IMDb. I just don't understand why that isn't applied to this case as it is to virtually every title in the database. I know that some people disagree 
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Phil G

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For whatever it may be worth, I'm inclined to agree with Adrian on this one - if these should be included in cast credits, then they should be ordered according to the order of their appearance in the on-screen credits.

Although it doesn't quite fit this situation, I feel the following rule has some relevance here:
In some cases (i.e., TV movies), the cast list is split between the opening credits and end credits; in those cases, the two portions should be treated as one long cast list that happens to be interrupted by the actual movie.
...or in this odd case, the two portions should be treated as one long cast list that happens to be interrupted by some crew credits.


But whatever the final decision on this, can we please have something added to the guides to explain how to assign orders to credited cast who are not included in the 'most comprehensive' list.
(Edited)
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Eboy

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My take is that the cast list starts after subheading ”Cast of characters”. Then those few other names are listed after that. But obviously I’m not speaking on behalf of IMDb staff.

Still, it feels a bit odd (even) that people want to delete these credits rather than solving the problem. There are probably thousands of titles on IMDb with ”unusual” credits and cast ordering. Alien won’t really mean much in the bigger picture.