Racist Double Standard in IMDb Credits?

  • 1
  • Problem
  • Updated 2 months ago
  • Solved
I was a principal cast member of Martha & Snoop's Potluck Dinner Party for many episodes in the first two seasons, playing one of the on-camera Servers and I have the many residual pay stubs to prove it.  There were six of us on-camera principal Servers, one Caucasian male, one Caucasian female, one African-American male, one African-American female, one Asian male (myself), and one Asian female (my friend Hnin Shein).  Interestingly, out of the six of us, only the Caucasian male and the Caucasian female were given IMDb credit.  After submitting updates with links to the full episodes many, many times to add my friend Hnin Shein and myself to the IMDb credits, my friend Hnin Shein has finally been given IMDb credits, but I still haven't so I can't help but feel singled out or punished for daring to ask us be treated the same as our Caucasian counterparts.  To add insult to injury, you give credit to people who are not principal actors at all and were not credited on screen like Roberto Arturo Smith for example, who was most likely just a background extra in the audience. 
Photo of Eddie Ramano

Eddie Ramano

  • 8 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
  • upset

Posted 2 months ago

  • 1
Photo of MAthePA

MAthePA

  • 2017 Posts
  • 3426 Reply Likes
Hi, Eddie Ramano.

Following your own words:
...There were six of us on-camera principal Servers, one Caucasian male, one Caucasian female, one African-American male, one African-American female, one Asian male (myself), and one Asian female (my friend Hnin Shein).  Interestingly, out of the six of us, only the Caucasian male and the Caucasian female were given IMDb credit.  After submitting updates with links to the full episodes many, many times to add my friend Hnin Shein and myself to the IMDb credits, my friend Hnin Shein has finally been given IMDb credits...
could you please explain where is the "RACIST" standard when processing your vs. her requests? Before starting this way, perhaps you should first try her way?
Photo of MAthePA

MAthePA

  • 2017 Posts
  • 3426 Reply Likes
Eddie Ramano, you might be interested to know that IMDb trying their best to preserve the credits the same way as they appear on screen. There are related guidelines (the links are clickable):
specifically these parts:
The (uncredited) attribute is used to indicate that a person's name does not appear in the main or end titles of a title. A typical example is when a famous actor has an unbilled cameo appearance in a movie.

Uncredited appearances in a movie or show can be extremely difficult to verify, as they do not conform to IMDb's general principle for cast; we always follow the onscreen credits. Likewise, none of the following have any bearing on whether they were, by our definition, credited: pay stubs, call sheets, agent listings, press mentions, resumes, and their visibility on screen. The only thing that matters is the actual, onscreen credits. If their name was not on screen, but they were in the movie or show, they were uncredited.
5. For cast/acting appearances, you must be identifiable and featured on-screen in the final released cut of the title. In other words, it's not enough to have worked on a production: your scenes must be included in the final cut and it must be possible to easily identify your appearance (i.e. background work as a crowd member or a similar role where it is impossible to recognize the subject are not eligible). If you ended up on the cutting room floor, you are not eligible to be listed. We may ask you to supply evidence of this, so you should be prepared to provide photos/stills/screen grabs to verify that you are featured.
Hope this helps
(Edited)
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Sorry, I'm not Eddie Ramano.  I'm William Ngo, the actor from the show.  I meant to post this from my own account, but accidentally posted this from my account.  Either you didn't read my post carefully or you're just choosing to highlight certain words but not certain other operative words and even cut out the last part which answers your question.  Here they are:

"Out of the six of us, only the Caucasian male and the Caucasian female were given IMDb credit."  That's the racist double standard.  "After submitting updates with links to the full episodes many, many times to add my friend Hnin Shein and myself to the IMDb credits, my friend Hnin Shein has finally been given IMDb credits, but I still haven't so I can't help but feel singled out or punished for daring to ask us be treated the same as our Caucasian counterparts."
(Edited)
Photo of Peter

Peter, Champion

  • 6449 Posts
  • 7784 Reply Likes
In the episodes I just checked there were no screen credits for servers.
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Ok, I guess you're right about that.  After all, the names of the two hosts are in the title of the show.  I see that the names of the guests are flashed right next to them before the show starts.  The two hosts are also credited as Executive Producers in the opening credits and the DJ is credited on screen as well when he is introduced.  The main issue I have here is that two of the Servers had their IMDb credits approved (and a third after I made many submissions for both of us) and even a background extra in the audience did, but mine were not approved.
Photo of Ed Jones (XLIX)

Ed Jones (XLIX)

  • 15436 Posts
  • 17619 Reply Likes
Probably not approved due to procedural mistakes.
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Thanks.  I will just keep submitting, I guess.
Photo of Ed Jones (XLIX)

Ed Jones (XLIX)

  • 15436 Posts
  • 17619 Reply Likes
That is incorrect.
Start complying with requests.
Please post the last submission number for YOUR credit only. No one else's. Yours.
Supply a screegrab of you in a scene within the title.
Supply the reference url.
If the screengrab matches your likeness in this picture below and you supply, right here, the referencing URL, they will approve your credit.
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1736996/mediaviewer/rm1749569280
William Ngo Picture

Be stubborn and they will ignore you until you comply.
Remember............ Screengrab and URL. Not one or the other. BOTH
Plus One Contribution Number
(Edited)
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Yep, you definitely have trouble reading basic English.  I have complied with "requests" all along.  That's how I got my friend Hnin Shein's credits approved for 21 episodes.
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7225 Posts
  • 9405 Reply Likes
Hi, Eddie Ramano. This is in regards to https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6264286/. What are the 18-digit reference numbers of the updates you submitted? Also, what are the names of the all six the people in the photographs you've posted? You've only identified two of them. Why? If there is any racial double standard, it is probably not IMDb's fault: https://help.imdb.com/article/imdb/general-information/where-does-the-information-on-imdb-come-from/GGD7NGF5X3ECFKNN#. It would be my suspicion that two of the actors have something (perhaps better talent representatives), whether they earned it or not, that the others (including you) do not. So, nevertheless, thanks for bringing the data gaps and potential cast attribute errors to our attention.
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Do you work for IMDb?
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7225 Posts
  • 9405 Reply Likes
No. Not at all. The list of employees can be found at https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/details/employees, and among them is Will. I'm noticing certain things on the forum due to my notification settings.
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Whoa, cool.  I didn't know there was a list of employees for the public to see.  My experience in the past is that some of the employees are more helpful and competent than others.
Photo of Ed Jones (XLIX)

Ed Jones (XLIX)

  • 15428 Posts
  • 17616 Reply Likes
And you wonder why you have trouble getting things approved.
Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7225 Posts
  • 9405 Reply Likes
The various members of the IMDb site authorities do not have the same privilege levels necessarily, so seemingly some have access to tools that others do not. I'm aware of maybe one employee who sometimes reports that a given thing is not possible just because he himself does not have the internal credentials to pull it off. I'm not sure if he merely relaying the remarks from a superior officer or if he sincerely believes in particular limitations. As for how helpful or competent a person, this can actually vary with a person's workload, workflow and mood; so the stars are not always at the top of their respective games, and people who often disappoint sometimes perform spectacularly. In general, the IMDb staff will try to give the best response that they are so capable of giving. Sometimes threads will receive multiple replies from multiple employees, since they do not all necessarily have the same expertise and access privileges, or just due to revolving work shifts. The founder of IMDb is responsible (to a degree) for all this stuff, and when he replies, it usually very helpful or otherwise a clarification of limitations of the technology presently available to the staff. I do believe he will refrain from directly addressing problems for which one of his fellows or subordinates have much more expertise, though.
Photo of Eboy

Eboy

  • 1568 Posts
  • 1981 Reply Likes
Have all these persons in the pictures/documents agreed that you present them with the thread title ”Racist Double Standard”? This is a public forum after all and the accusation feels very far-fetched. Or should I say, a bit silly even.

It’s perfectly fine to challenge IMDb for movie credits (or the production company who apparently didn’t give any actual on-screen credits to certain actors), but there’s a better way to handle these issues. ”Uncredited” credits are always handled differently than the ”credited” ones.
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
The two Caucasian actors are good friends of mine and I have spoken to all of them about this, yes.  The production compay didn't give on-screen credits to anyone, including Snoop Dogg, Martha Stewart, the celebrity guests, and the six of us Servers and yet IMDb approved the credits of the two Caucasian servers (and my friend Hnin Shein after I submitted the updates for us many times) but not mine.
(Edited)
Photo of Ed Jones (XLIX)

Ed Jones (XLIX)

  • 15436 Posts
  • 17619 Reply Likes
William.
Your assertion of Racism is baseless and crass at best.
You have asserted that another person was playing "Dumb". Crass action again.
None of us are employees. All of us were trying to help. Lighten up!
You made 23 submissions on July 11. None of those are organized as to what they reference.
The "Proof" you provided did not state here whether it was a link and a screenshot, or just a link.
Screenshots with a link for a reference is preferred. And in this case almost assuredly mandatory.
That means interaction of your acting in the role. This is the proof that is needed when a role has no onscreen accreditation. All the above shots appear to be behind the scene photos or possibly selfie shots.
Suggest you apologize for the racist remark statement in general and a sorry to MAthePA would be nice.

IMDb will process any and all "PROPERLY SUBMITTED" contributions for accreditation.
Keyword here is "Properly". They absolutely and positively do not choose who or who not is included based on race. Please comply with what is requested to approve your submissions.

That being said it would help the staff if you were assign each one of those submission numbers above with a point of reference that it addresses.

And I do hope that they are not repeated submissions for the same credit. That only slows down processing.

Thanks
Cheers
Ed
:)

(Edited)
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Well, when the two Caucasian Servers were given IMDb credit, but the other four were not and my repeated update submissions were denied, I see a double standard.  Your failure to see that is myopic and crass at best.  I didn't know that MAthePA is not an IMDb employee but he quoted some of my words and highlighted some of them, but ignored or omitted others, so I questioned whether he simply didn't read my words carefully or if he was being willfully ignorant.  Blowing my words out of proportion is crass action again on your part.

I made multiple submissions because I was in multiple episodes and submitted updates to each episode individually.  Jeorj asked me what the reference numbers were for the updates I submitted, so I listed them (presumably for IMDb staff to see and reference in their system).  I wasn't asked to organize them in any way and IMDb staff can see what they reference because they are reference numbers and that is their purpose.  Your insinuation that I failed to properly provide the reference numbers is baseless and again crass at best.  I had submitted links to the episodes in my update submissions and it is only here that I am able to post photos.  I posted pictures of my residual pay stubs above that clearly show I was a Principal Performer who received thousands of dollars in residuals for multiple episodes.  I included the pictures of us behind the scenes for further proof that I worked on the set and for a visual reference of the six Servers and our racial makeup.

I also did not make any racist remarks.  I questioned whether the double standard at play here is racist because the two Servers out of six that were given IMDb credits happen to be the two Caucasian ones.  All of my update submissions were "PROPERLY SUBMITTED", key word "properly".  It's interesting that you presume to know each and every IMDb employee and the reasoning behind how they subjectively "choose who or who not is included".  You ask me to "comply with what is requested" is if you are an IMDb employee and as if you know that I didn't provide what is requested.  Again, I'm pretty sure the can find what my reference numbers reference because that is the point of reference numbers.  No, they are not repeated submissions for the same credit.  IMDb allows a submission to be repeated only every 14 days, so I have to wait 14 days before resubmitting each credit.

Thanks
Cheers
William
:)
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
The others had their credits approved without the Uncredited attribute despite their roles not being credited on screen. It's not a big deal to me to have these credits on IMDb. It's the double standard that I take issue with.
Photo of Ed Jones (XLIX)

Ed Jones (XLIX)

  • 15081 Posts
  • 17190 Reply Likes
Contribution #190716-234546-497000


Photo of Jeorj Euler

Jeorj Euler

  • 7213 Posts
  • 9377 Reply Likes
William Ngo, we can mitigate the discrepancy for the case at hand and make sure all the credits information conforms to IMDb policy, but we probably will never have an explanation for the problem. Hopefully that is good enough for you. This is not a transparent system.
Photo of Will

Will, Official Rep

  • 3757 Posts
  • 4673 Reply Likes
Hi William,

Please see the Contributors' Charter, particularly this point. 

IMDb tracks each contributor's accuracy over time and if any contributor repeatedly submits data which is inaccurate or which violates our policies, their contributions will require increasing levels of additional proof in order to be processed.
Photo of William Ngo

William Ngo

  • 50 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
I don't repeatedly submit date that is inaccurate or violates your policies.  Each year, I receive an e-mail thanking me for my many contributions.  I see tons of background extras who are not given on-screen credit but are given IMDb credits without proof.  Sometimes, those aren't corrected after I submit the corrections many, many times.  I've had an IMDb employee tell me I have to show proof that they are not credited on screen (instead of them having to show proof that they are credited on screen).  So, I see a double standard at play and IMDb employees contradicting themselves and choosing to twist the rules as they like instead of following the rules as stated.