Rana Al Rifai is credited for shows she's dubbed in Lebanese. IMDb currently doesn't list dubbing credits. Any way to easily remove them?

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Hello IMDb people,

I was going through the cast and credits of various animated series, when I noticed something odd. The actress "Rana Al Rifai" was credited and listed under shows she didn't voice act in the English dub of. She appears in the cast and actors' section for shows that she's only acted in the Lebanese dub of. Per IMDb's guidelines, we don't list actors who've dubbed something in a non-English/non-original language.

Sadly, Rana Al Rifai is now credited on over a hundred pages of episodes of series that she only provided voice work for the Lebanese dub of. Any way to easily fix this issue?

EDIT: Did the painstakingly long process of attempting to delete all of the "Ed, Edd n Eddy", "Mucha Lucha", and "Steven Universe" credits, which weren't in line with IMDb's current guidelines. Not sure about the "Grim Adventures" video game. I do believe she was in "Princess of Rome" and "Maitre Nada", however. Someone would need to check those last three (which I didn't attempt to delete).
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paintspotinfez

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Posted 1 year ago

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Marco

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This is one of the biggest issues I know of* when it comes to the database. Dubbers currently can not be listed on the title page! They can only be listed in the other works section for a person. (one of many examples: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0583221/otherworks)

Unfortunately, I don't know of an easy fix for the credits of Rana Al Rifai...

I have mentioned this whole dubbing issue to IMDb for the first time in 2003 (!) and, unfortunately, they still haven't acted upon it, even though literally hundreds of millions of people watch dubbed versions and even though IMDb always likes to point out they look at more than just Hollywood. (https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/imdb-india)

For reference: This is the guide regarding dubbing credits: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/cast-acting-credits-guidelines/GH3JZC... (and yes, the length of these URL's was shorter in the past)


*for other contributors: I consider the lack of genres like Soap Opera, Erotica, Experimental and the like the other huge issues when it comes to the DATAbase.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Actually, in this case, dubs could be listed in the cast credits, as they fall under the notable exception in the rule: animated series and movies.
 
As seen here
"Only the original voice actors can usually be credited. For example, on an Italian non-animated film, only the actors providing Italian voices on the original version of the film can be credited in the database. We won't list the actors providing French voices for the French release of that film. The only exceptions to this rule are animated titles and videogames, where we may list both the original-language cast and the English-language cast, if applicable."

I believe it is one of those cases of trying to fix what was not broken. 
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Marco

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Nikolay, the OP talks about the Lebanese dub credits for a voice actor. Unless the show the OP is talking about is a Lebanese show, the credits are not for the original language of the title and can't therefore be listed properly in the database.
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Vincent Fournols

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I would not mind finding a dedicated section to dubbing names in any language Probably to be proposed as a new idea.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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Marco, OP specifically mentioned animated series. In animated series and movies, as well as video games dub credits are eligible for inclusion in cast section, because for versions in respective countries they officially become main ones. As an example, this title features credits for Ukrainian version (which is seen in attributes on actors respective pages) and it is in no way againt the guidelines. 
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Marco

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I would not mind finding a dedicated section to dubbing names in any language
You and me both.
Probably to be proposed as a new idea.
See https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/suggestion-for-new-feature-voice-actors and https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/add-voice-acting-dubbing-credits-to-drop-down-section (I think there are more though)
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Marco

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In animated series and movies, as well as video games dub credits are eligible for inclusion in cast section
I wish they were, but they are not. Only the original language can be listed. If the original language is NOT English, then the English dubbers can be listed.

As an example, this title features credits for Ukrainian version (which is seen in attributes on actors respective pages) and it is in no way againt the guidelines.
Unfortunately, this IS against the guidelines. Only the English voice actors can be listed. The Ukrainian voice actors should actually be deleted from that title's page. And yes, that obviously means they'll also disappear from the people's pages.
I can understand that you don't understand because it is so counter-intuitive.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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I gave you the link to the guidelines explicitly reciting the passage which says it is eligible. Please re-read my previous message. Basically, if animated feature or series had been produced in language other then English and then was dubbed in English and we list both the orginal and the dub, that works vice versa and we should list dubs in other languages if the animated title or video game was originally in English. 

That only works for animation and video games, in which replacement of actors is full depending on a version. For other instances there is "vocie dubbing: [role or actor]" which could be listed in "miscellaneous crew" with no problems, as seen here
(Edited)
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Marco

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I gave you the link to the guidelines explicitly reciting the passage which says it is eligible.
I know of the guidelines. (a small) Part of why the guidelines are what they are today is because for years, I've been making a point of the issue of dubbers.
if animated feature or series had been produced in language other then English and then was dubbed in English and we list both the orginal and the dub
As I've also said, this is correct.
that works vice versa and we should list dubs in other languages if the animated title or video game was originally in English.
It doesn't say that in the guide. As I've said, I wish it worked vice versa, but it doesn't. From the guide: "we may list both the original-language cast and the English-language cast". It doesn't say we can do this vice versa. Where do you think it says it works vice versa?
It only says original version + English version. It doesn't say English version + other, non-original version.
Also from the guide: "Dubbing credits for foreign languages (read: non-English languages) are currently not eligible to be listed in the database."  (note that the emphasis is not mine).
Again, from the guide:
"Monica Bellucci - Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas (2003) - Voice of Marina in French version - No - Dubbed a character in language other than the original"
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If so, it is quite discriminating, considering the English-language dubs are permitted: even if I thoroughly agree that English is a lingua franca nowadays and is more or less an international language, giving it preference in the case for dubs is a bit odd, considering that such dubs only work for certain countries (and UK and US releases often differ).

Not here to argue the rules, though, we can always shift those credits to "miscellaneous crew" if they are not eligible in the cast section. The point is we can list them anyway.  
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Marco

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If so, it is quite discriminating, considering the English-language dubs are permitted
I totally agree. There's a reason this keeps coming up every now and again for the past fifteen years :)

we can always shift those credits to "miscellaneous crew" if they are not eligible in the cast section.
Unfortunately, we can't list them there either. The voice credits that can go in the misc. crew section are only for voices in an original version of a title that - for whatever reason - can't be listed in the cast list.
From the guide: "Dubbing credits for foreign languages are currently not eligible to be listed in the database." (as I've said, the emphasis is not mine).
Also: "We might relax this policy and allow foreign/localized credits to be added at some point, but not at present. In the meantime, such credits can be noted as "other works" in the biographies of the relevant people. "
 This means dubbing credits can not be listed on a title's page and only on a person's page where they end up cluttered in the other works section. (another example than the one I gave upthread: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0312253/otherworks)

The point is we can list them anyway. 
Well, not really. IMDb stands for Internet Movie Database. Unfortunately, they're not yet worthy of being called International Movie Database. Maybe in fifteen years time...
(Edited)
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We really need to start a new idea thread on the subject and include all of those facts because it feels as an outdated standard. Considering that music videos are now eligible (btw why are they still cluttering "other works" then?..), some restrictions should be lifted for adequate representation of fullest information available. 

I also trying to do something with photographs - they are not eligilbe in "cast" credits either (unless they are speicifc borderline cases), but there are A LOT of cases of photograph appearances which are actually made specifically for the movie, meaning that actor spent some time on the set doing that. That should merit for "miscellaneous crew" credit "photographic model" at the very least (especially considering that we do list photo doubles and poster models), but standards on that are nowhere to be seen so far. 
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Marco

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We really need to start a new idea thread on the subject and include all of those facts because it feels as an outdated standard.
Well, feel free to respond to these: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/suggestion-for-new-feature-voice-actors and https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/add-voice-acting-dubbing-credits-to-drop-down-section. There are probably more out there: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/search/show?category=imdb_imdb_contentdata_issues.

Considering that music videos are now eligible (btw why are they still cluttering "other works" then?..)
Because for a long time, they weren't allowed and the Other works section was where to put them.

some restrictions should be lifted for adequate representation of fullest information available.
Totally agree. If the old message board area was still around, I could link a plethora of threads here about this very subject.
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Marco

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We really need to start a new idea thread on the subject and include all of those facts because it feels as an outdated standard.
Well, feel free to respond to these: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/suggestion-for-new-feature-voice-actors and https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/add-voice-acting-dubbing-credits-to-drop-down-section. There are probably more out there: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/search/show?category=imdb_imdb_contentdata_issues.

Considering that music videos are now eligible (btw why are they still cluttering "other works" then?..)
Because for a long time, they weren't allowed and the Other works section was where to put them.

some restrictions should be lifted for adequate representation of fullest information available.
Totally agree. If the old message board area was still around, I could link a plethora of threads here about this very subject.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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I know why music videos are still there, merely wondering why there is no certainty whether to remove them from "Other works" now that they've become eligilbe, or leave them be. 

I feel like we need a really big suggeston thread, which adresses multiple problems. 
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Marco

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I know why music videos are still there, merely wondering why there is no certainty whether to remove them from "Other works" now that they've become eligilbe, or leave them be.
If the music video already has its own page, all information should be on that page, not in someone's Other Works section.

I feel like we need a really big suggeston thread, which adresses multiple problems.
It's always best to have one issue per thread. That way, no issues can get buried and get lost in a thread.
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unknown1000

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I know, I wish they would consider letting us add dubbing credits cause dubbing is acting too, :D