Reason for deletions of user comments/posts could be given.

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I would recommend adding a description or description code giving a reason for deleted message board posts. Many people don't know what happened or what could possibly have been the reason someone was offended by a comment. On the previous Help Board, people posted (though it said not to in the board description) asking why a post was deleted. Staff had to move those to the Soapbox board often. Staff also points to the Terms and Conditions, but says no more. It leads to confusion.

The GS site has a good system, allowing for transparency, by listing deleted posts with a reason and sometimes with comment from staff. I understand, comment from staff would take a lot of extra work, but maybe the system can allow for automated notification, perhaps a number code in the "deleted by administrator" message, showing which reason was chosen by the user reporting it. For example, if a film's board has a user putting spoilers in her/his post titles, it could be reported using the 15th reason on the list, "contains spoilers" and show "deleted by administrator-contains spoilers" or just "deleted-code 15," etc.

If it is someone abusing the report system, it would be obvious. For instance, if they put "racism" and there is none, or "spam," etc. the user would know and could make a report of false reporting. Sometimes users think there is false reporting and just don't know they should use "spoiler" mark-up or don't know "off topic" is a problem. It could eliminate some abusive posts, reduce reports of false reporting, and save a lot of "what did I do wrong" posting (which I also see on actor or title boards too).
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Posted 6 years ago

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Dan Dassow, Champion

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I endorse this idea. This suggestion complements the suggestion "Visible edit history" [https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...].
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Giancarlo Cairella, Official Rep

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I understand what you're saying, but this is not planned and not likely to be implemented. Besides the practical issues (entering a justification every time an action is made is not feasible, given the volume of data being handled), in many cases a specific explanation may lead to further discussion or attempts to appeal the decision. We experimented with a mechanism which provided some feedback to reports, but it did not work out.
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Keester

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Not planned!...not likely to be implemented! Your reason to carry on as you are rather than improve.

Don''t you see the confusion you create with the present system. And more importantly if people don't know why something has been deleted how can they learn from it and not make the same mistake again.

You are a very bad parent. Punishing your children without teaching them what is right or wrong.
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Thanks, Giancarlo. I thought that might be the case but gave it a shot. Perhaps the automated version could be added to the next version of the boards, more easily.

I see what you mean by "further discussions" by looking at current posts about deleted content.

And, I could have guessed that individualized response would not happen. Millions of boards, millions of users...do the math...as I always say.
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This arose in another thread, where I gave my thoughts:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...

It needn't be a detailed description and could largely be automated so it wouldn't waste staff's time. It might be sufficient to let people know what has happened and why (even if they don't agree with it) and might stop some people from having to come on here to find out what happened, because at the moment it seems to be pretty mysterious and can often feel like it comes out of the blue.

So with posts, you could send someone a PM with these details:

* The category the complaint was in (which is populated from a drop down menu so is fairly standardised).

* The content of the specific message that caused the problem - as you scrub someone's whole posting history, they might not actually know what all this was over. The downside of this is they could keep blundering into this and there'd be no way for them to correct their behaviour if they don't know what they are being punished for, like telling your dog off for one specific thing he did sometime in the last week - they'd never change and might go a bit mad.

With lists you might want to send a PM saying:

* If the list has been suspended pending an investigation or just deleted.

* What the category of complaint was.

Feel free to say that there is no process of appeal if you want too.
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Keester

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With regard to the lists how about offering some time for the owner to fix whatever brought it to staffs attention. Failure to fix..delete. 3 strikes and you're out. I'd go along with no appeal but it has to be comply or delete. That at least gives the user some chance.

As it is, it appears that IMDB want it all. They want user input but don't want to police it professionally. I'm an active member of many forums and have never seen this kind of treatment except with IMDB. If they can't treat users with respect and inform them professionally where something is wrong then they shouldn't have user input.
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Yeah I could go along with that in borderline cases (like yours) but most cases are unfixable: lists of sex offenders, closet homosexuals, closet Scientologists (I've seen more than one of some of those) - which are potential libelous, or slander and should just be removed.

Even in your case, what if the complaint was "this is a bit creepy"? There is no real way to fix that as it is subjective and addresses the whole list. The only thing you could do is argue that no it isn't, which would get into the whole "he said, she said" business they want to avoid.

So it is tricky - it might work in some cases where the wording of a comment needed adjusting, but I suspect they'd be so rare that it might not be worth their while implementing it. The vast majority cases that are problematic involve lists whose intent is the problem.
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Keester

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I don't see how any of my lists could be seen as borderline as they contain nothing but facts taken from IMDB itself. As you correctly state there may be some lists that are totally unfixable. However the examples you make could not, I don't think, be made up of facts taken from IMDB. They would be lists made up of opinions of the author. Those opinions may or may not be true but most certainly would not be facts as presented by IMDB as my lists were. But even those could be subjected to a notification of breach of content guidelines system. Only rather than offering a user to fix it you allow him/her to delete it themselves or face staff deletion.

Don't really understand what you mean by creepy. How can facts be creepy? Either these actors were or weren't 18 years old or younger when they first starred in some movie or TV show. It's as simple as that. If that is creepy then so is a factual list of Hitchcock movies or a list of everything Jodie Foster has appeared in.
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Even if we assume that facts are inherently neutral, once you start picking them out and dividing people up using them, then they become highly subjective.

If I start a list of actresses over 40 because I believe the industry tends to be biased against them and we should celebrate their contribution, it wouldn't stop someone else from thinking the list was itself problematic because it highlights actresses purely on their age, it might even be that one of the actresses on their objects to their inclusion because it focuses on their age (and/or because it lumps someone who is 41 in with someone else who is 70 or 80). It doesn't mean they are right, but that it isn't black and white, even when using facts.
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Exactly. Good example. Then, multiply that by thousands when you consider how touchy people are when focusing on minors, specifically. Many of the cries from the Karmalicity crowd were about minors being "harassed," and that list wasn't even minors only, or male or female minors, for that matter, just a list of all ages, races, genders. But, I am sure that led to the list deletions.
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Keester

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Not so sure your example is good Emperor. It would depend on if you had stated that you believe the industry tends to be biased against them. If it was just a list based upon pure facts how could anybody see a problem with it. If they see something that is not there then that is their problem not yours and should not be reason to have it deleted. If it does give reason then a list of Hitchcock films could be seen as problematic as it excludes all other directors.
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If it was just a list based upon pure facts how could anybody see a problem with it.


All I can say is, I bet they would.
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Keester

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Then as I said before the problem is with them not the list.
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You're absolutely right. They should remove all the users. Then, smooth sailing!
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Keester

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That is NOT what I said and you are just being stupid in trying to make it look so.

Another prime example of your misread/misquote.
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Keester

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What's the betting that bluesmanSF will wait till just before archive time to make one last stupid misread/misquote that nobody can reply to. I've seen it before I expect it again.
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Your posts were archived because staff doesn't discuss deletions, your questions were answered and you kept arguing and trolling. You were deleted again...go figure.

If there was an archiving schedule, you'd think this would have gone https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...

Keep talking. Odds are, eventually, you'll get one thing right (even by accident).
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Keester

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Well I won the bet. Knew you couldn't resit it. Now who's the troll.

And as for arguing, well if you hadn't continually misread/misquoted things I'd written then that wouldn't have happened. Even more trolling by you.
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You two ladies need to get a room, all this flirting is just getting embarrassing to watch!! And yet I can't stop reading...
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Giancarlo Cairella,

Although I still support bluesmanSF's originally suggestion, perhaps IMDb could take a more proactive approach to what IMDb considers appropriate content for lists. I understand that IMDb considers the original suggestion impractical.

It would be helpful to have a link on the Create a List page [http://www.imdb.com/list/create] to IMDb's terms and conditions page [http://www.imdb.com/help/show_article...]. It would also be helpful to include a message along the lines of what appears when posting on the message boards
Please note all lists must comply with the terms and conditions. Violations of these terms may result in all your list being deleted and your account permanently blocked from accessing the site. If you discover an inappropriate list, please report the list via the "Report this list" link at the top right of the page.


Even though the warning on message board does not prevent users from posting inappropriate content, at least they are forewarned. Many people put a lot of time and effort into creating their lists. It is disconcerting to have such a list deleted without knowing why.

It would also be helpful for users to be able mark lists as Not Safe for Work (NSF) and/or contains adult content.
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On that last part, there is the porn filter already in place, even if it currently isn't working properly:
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...

Personally, I think a NSFW setting (or no kids allows one) that people can apply themselves (and/or it could be requested but applied by staff) might be a more useful as just filtering out porn doesn't address lists of violent and brutal films, like my own torture porn list, which I wouldn't want the kids I know reading:
http://www.imdb.com/list/S1DrriR7QJw/

You could show a warning screen, like the one used by Blogspot when blogs are flagged by their creators for having strong content.
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The Blogspot warning screen is the one that inspired this suggestion.
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Good stuff - it is a little annoying but that is because it isn't centralised. Here you could use a switch like the porn filter one for search and you'd only ever have to see it once.
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Keester

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Sounds good to me Dan. Anything to help avoid what I've been through recently.
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To add to what Dan says, maybe also a message, when reporting a list, similar to the one you get when reporting a message board post, warning that abuse of the report system could result in action to the user's account. It might keep someone from reporting one simply because they don't like the users or don't like the content of the list.
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Dan Dassow, Champion

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Such a message would tend to discourage capricious reporting of lists.

I will re-post these ideas as a separate suggestion.
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Emperor, Champion

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Good stuff.

The only thing about sanctions for reporting lists is that you'd probably only make one or two and so there is usually no need to try and stop a flood of reports from the same person over different issues. However, you'd want something to stop people from just going through and reporting all the lists someone made just to spite them.
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Dan Dassow, Champion

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Please see suggestion:
Include Warnings on List Creation Page and List Reporting Page
https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...
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M. A.

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I had a thread of mine deleted and I have been going round the boards looking for somewhere to find out why it happened. I don't think there was anything anyone would consider offensive on it so I very much agree with what bluesman has suggested, that if a post is deleted some kind of reason be given.
It seems the admin don't have the time to read threads that have a complaint against them to see if the complaint is valid or not, so I was wondering how you would know if the one making the complaint doesn't just have a personal beef with the OP of the original thread?
It's just so frustrating for someone like me, who tried to always be polite and not be rude, to find your thread has vanished without explanation.
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Temprock

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Add me to the many whose entire ratings and message board history was deleted without warning or explanation. As for"cause"I became embroiled in a Message Board Forum hissing--whoops is "hissing" a permissible word?--with a bunch of 15 year olds and yep I cussed a few times.

Boom ultimate full deletion penalty, no warning. I probably over the years had contributed to this site with many reviews, ratings, comments without any issues.Would have been nice if the Deleters had simply
removed offending posts of mine.Fuc king overkill by d-bags.Hope I'm not subject to arrest now.
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Are you sure? Is it possible you logged in differently, via Facebook, for example? Doing so creates a new, unrelated account. The reason I ask is, they don't remove ratings. So if your account shows no history, it might not be the same account. Does you profile show your normal user name and registered date?

But, yeah...you can get for arguing and cursing. You're better off ignoring them next time.
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Temprock

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Bluesman...Thank you for your thoughts on this. I will try to check the areas you suggested.

Yes I'm pretty sure I cussed (not the only one in that Thread who did however). And I'm still not sure if, as you suggest, they don't remove ratings, whether that also applies if a Member's history is removed for cussing. The history seemed to be definitely gone the last 3X I checked.

I still feel the more appropriate "punishment" should be a warning or at the worst removing the Thread, the post to a Thread or the offensive language.They unilaterally without warning deleted hours of my life that I had over time used to post my reviews or comments.

Yep I should have ignored them... and IMDb should have ignored me!!!

Thanks again..
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bhertz

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Supporting the proposal.

This whole reporting system is broken and favoring trolls. Trolls have usually several accounts on standby they put little effort in, except occasionally wiping and renaming them. They can use those for trolling, maliciously reporting regular users and whatever. And it won't really bother them when an account gets nuked.

The productive user though gets hurt quite badly when his account is nuked. And this imbalance just isn't acceptable.

IMDB took a step in the right direct with their account verification. But it's entirely lacking a moderation and reporting system that puts this verification to the intended effect, namely holding real offenders accountable for their actions. As it stands, the whole system is a continuing source of frustration for the regular user.

So I'd actually go a step further. Not only tell me what post was reported. Also tell me who reported it. So that I at least know what I'm dealing with.

Also, please make it a little more transparent where the red line is that shouldn't be crossed. Me, I'm currently target of a troll for example. I'm currently getting a warning when trying to post. But I have no idea what to do to prevent my account from being nuked. Right now, I'm not posting at all because I feel the troll could report any random post of mine and potentially get me nuked, thanks to that fuzzy automated report processing. The whole situation is a total mess I can tell you.
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Yep...that warning means someone is serial reporting you. Problem is, by the time the system catches up and starts ignoring him, damage has been done.

Sorry for that!
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bhertz

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@bluesmanSF

Thanks for your sympathy, but "sorry for that" can't be enough. I'm a movie buff. I've had many good discussions for many years on IMDB. And accidentally stepped on a board infested by a troll group. If I get nuked it's bye bye IMDB for me, for sure. And in the end all IMDB will be left with are those trolls. That's where the current system is headed at, as far as my recent experiences tell me.
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Rory Harvey

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I am getting this message at the moment myself. The only thing I can think off is the user in the 'Seed of Chucky' boards who was claiming that all gay people were paedophiles. I wasn't nasty in the thread, I didn't call her any nasty names. I just posted facts that countered her argument. She ended up getting deleted so I wonder if it has something to do with that.
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Temprock

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I feel everyone's pain on this including my own. I love film and was a fairly regular contributor to IMDb's reviews, ratings, etc.

I am also on several Philadelphia sports message boards. Those Boards approximate the wild, wild west but the moderators are intelligent enough to understand that we are mostly all grown-ups not easily offended by anything, they factor in a form of Freedom of Speech and let most things pass (as they should).

Sarcastic thanks to IMDb for removing traces of hours of my life and my passion with no warning, no Appeal and no explanation. May the same fate somehow befall those responsible for this moronic response to (what??I'm still not sure).
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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While I understand, IMDb is not mostly inhabited by adults. The boards are used by 13 years old and up. There are also Grandmothers and Great Grandmothers about. So, this thread is far from being about letting folks shoot it out.
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Keester

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I can fully understand when posts/comments are deleted without reasons being given for nastiness and/or foul language. The poster/commenter should understand also and not require reason. However I don't understand why comments/post should be deleted without reason just because somebody complained. Those kind of complaints should be given to the poster/commenter.
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Temprock

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Really bluesman. Great grandmothers? Sh it then I apologize. I had no idea and I suspect neither do you.

Again I enjoy participating in many Message Boards. Again I assume each of those Boards are used by both 13 year olds and a few Great Grandmothers. But even more they are used by actual non-octogenerian GROWN-UPS.

NONE of those Boards delete a poster's (who OCCASIONALLY cusses in a Thread) ENTIRE Board presence and history. None..except for IMDb. They each either delete the Posting/Comment, use asterisks for "offensive" words or remove the entire Thread if it becomes a shoot out.

The nature of the beast is that occasionally--not always or invariably--a Thread becomes nasty.Most Board moderators understand that.

And if entire IMDb Board histories are deleted based on a mere Complaint--good faith or bad faith--then I agree too with the foul-language hating keester that this too is absurd.

I'm not coming out here as pro unfettered cursing, I'm only ridiculing the overkill nature of IMDb's "cure".
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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The only time they delete history based on a mere complaint is when it's a spam or chain letter or other "zero tolerance" issue. A history wipe is part of progressive discipline. It wouldn't happen after one, or two or three...or probably even a dozen instances of cursing.

Incidentally, I mentioned the "13 year olds (IMDb age minimum) and Grandmothers" comment before and got PM's and replies from some Great Grandmothers saying, "don't forget us!" I don't know how many it is, but I actually personally know two GGM's...so they're out there.

Of note, using misspellings or asterisks to skirt the censor doesn't make cursing fall within the Terms and Conditions. It can still be reported and actioned accordingly.

By the way...it's not an issue with me...I'm known to drop F-bombs, etc., more than I should...I just reign it in where it's not appropriate...such as here.
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Temprock

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bluesman...All I know is this..my years-long history with IMDb was completely wiped. No progressive discipline (which would have been fine) no warning, just gone.

In trying to figure out why--I still have no idea--I could only speculate it MIGHT have been because of ONE (and only one) nasty Thread involving my expressed dislike for a film (apparently a film beloved by 13 year olds, gamers and those on Ritalin for ADHD) who then "attacked" me en masse which, as is my wont, elicited several firm POSSIBLY cuss-laden ripostes from me. Again this is the only reason I could come up with.

And when I say cuss (alert.. POSSIBLE cuss word to follow) is calling the 13 year olds (collectively) douche-bags even cursing in the first place? Does IMDb not support hygiene?

Progressive discipline would have been fine. And you misunderstood my reference to using asterisks. The Message Boards I post to (mostly Philly Sports Message Boards--no places for the faint-of-heart) THEMSELVES recognize cussing and auto-substitute asterisks for.any recognized profanity. When I feel like cussin I do so usually without any ramifications.

Except with (back to the beginning) IMDb. I think....
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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Gotcha...thanks! Yeah, that sucks when the hammer falls without warning. If the site gave the reason, with a link to question it, it'd be nice.

(You didn't just notice me use "douchey" here, did you? lOL)
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bhertz

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@Temprock

You've probably falling victim to trolls resp. an organized troll group. Myself, I never knew these existed until posting on the Evil Dead board. Where this group
http://manlymovie.freeforums.net/thre...
happened to hang out, as I later learned. Just as I learned that they operate literally dozens of socket accounts. And know how to play the reporting system fairly well.

In particular, I've seen accounts of posters who happened to confront them getting nuked and them bragging about it afterwards. Which is why I now think that the (automated?) reporting system is a trolling tool more than anything else.

So altogether, I now consider IMDb message boards a source of frustration more than anything else. Where you're just another example corroborating that view.

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