Self

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  • Question
  • Updated 6 days ago
What's all this?

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J.

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  • Happy Go Lucky (1943)

Posted 1 week ago

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bderoes, Champion

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Looks like IMDb is inching toward being gender neutral? I wonder what it'll do for a plural/group name. Probably also just Self.

Thanks for the reference to a now-obscure musical with Mary Martin and Dick Powell, the second of their 3 collaborations. Mine is one of the 116 votes.
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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The word actor was missing on my name page too. IMDb removed it.
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Gustav Wedholm

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@bderoes; Plural/groups already used the neutral/collective term Themselves.

@Ed Jones; Why would your page have the term Actor attached to it? You don't have any actor credits, just two Thanks credits. (And how would this be related to the topic in question regarding Self credits?)
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Gustav Wedholm

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I can't see the connection at all. Were you credited as "Self" on the Thanks-credits, or why do you think it's connected to this change?

Do you think that a Thanks-credits should give a person the Actor/Actress-term attached to their profile? I'm not following your argument here, but if this is your argument this is off topic and you'd be better off starting a new topic on that.

Either way, please refrain from further shouting and name-calling.
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Vande

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Mine just suddenly changed to this today too.

Looks like it is an announcement IMDb forgot to make, probably because of the backlash from all the contributors who do consider themselves male or female.

What a shame.
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J.

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@Owen The default for Actor has always annoyed me and has caused me to make several errors when adding new names. Maybe eliminating the default will be part of this sweeping change, which so far seems trivial at best.
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Owen Rees

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There has been no visible change since my submission. No bio and both actor and actress edits are still available.

As for the default, I think that is there because of the way the web form is constructed for entering cast credits on a title. Whether or not there is some larger change behind this small change is not possible to tell as a contributor.
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Gustav Wedholm

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@Owen; FWIW, from my experience, Gender submissions take a long time before they have effect on Actor/Actress choices. Maybe due to database structure that needs to be read in.

But I could be wrong, I only know that changes I make due to people wrongly appearing as Actor while being female take upwards a month before they start defaulting to Actress in my new submissions (after I set Gender to Female).
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ljdoncel, Champion

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@Owen Rees

Hi, Owen (great to see you around here from time to time):
One thing that will probably remain a problem is that actor is the default option for a cast credit and it is easy to forget to select actress when adding a first credit. I suspect that actor/Herself is a more common inconsistency than actress/Himself.
I thought so too. However, I did a quick search and surprisingly... it's the opposite:

As of 25 Mar 2020:

NAMES WITH SOME SELF CREDIT: 1,502,512 names
     ...who also have some ACTOR credit: 245,331 names (16.3%)
                    38,462 of them also archive footage entries
     ...who also have some ACTRESS credit: 138,848 names (9.2%)
                    20,767 of them also archive footage entries
     ...who also have NEITHER ACTOR NOR ACTRESS credits: 1,118,333 names (74.4%)
                    [Jay might be talking about these people in his post above]

About the inconsistencies, the new policy has already been added to the guidelines...

...but, just for the record:

HIMSELF credits in names with ACTRESS entries: 5,633 credits
HERSELF credits in names with ACTOR entries: 5,288 credits

These inconsistencies are no longer trackable by looking at their  pages... e.g.:


Cheers!
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ljdoncel, Champion

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@Owen Rees

Hi, Owen (great to see you around here from time to time):
One thing that will probably remain a problem is that actor is the default option for a cast credit and it is easy to forget to select actress when adding a first credit. I suspect that actor/Herself is a more common inconsistency than actress/Himself.
I thought so too. However, I did a quick search and surprisingly... it's the opposite:

As of 25 Mar 2020:

NAMES WITH SOME SELF CREDIT: 1,502,512 names
     ...who also have some ACTOR credit: 245,331 names (16.3%)
                    38,462 of them also archive footage entries
     ...who also have some ACTRESS credit: 138,848 names (9.2%)
                    20,767 of them also archive footage entries
     ...who also have NEITHER ACTOR NOR ACTRESS credits: 1,118,333 names (74.4%)
                    [Jay might be talking about these people in his post above]

About the inconsistencies, the new policy has already been added to the guidelines...

...but, just for the record:

HIMSELF credits in names with ACTRESS entries: 5,633 credits
HERSELF credits in names with ACTOR entries: 5,288 credits

These inconsistencies are no longer trackable by looking at their  pages... e.g.:


Cheers!
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Gustav Wedholm

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I love this change, thank you IMDb.

I've never understood why I would need to use two different terms for this when "Self" is sufficient for the data categorisation.

(For all you interested in [binary] Genders, there is a specific data field for this, and has been for a long time.)
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Ed Jones(XLIX)

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(For all you interested in [binary] Genders, there is a specific data field for this, and has been for a long time.)
I know them. And it's a sad way to identify themselves.
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Gustav Wedholm

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Sorry, I don't follow what you mean. Do you think the Gender-field is a sad (bad?) way to enter data about Gender/Sex? If so, I would recommend that you contact IMDb with a suggestion for a better technical solution.
(Edited)
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Bulma PunkRocker

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The same is happening to me right now and couldn't find any announcement.

People who want to hide theri sex should be able to do it, but now how are we suppossed to find some crew member amongst 55 people, male and female, with the same name and field? It's only gona increase duplicate pages.
I can't understand how it is so bad to know if a person is a man or a woman, no one is asking about sexual orientation or if the person is trans. This is really strange to me.
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Gustav Wedholm

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Yes, but in those cases they are not credited as (just) crew, but also as cast. (Just like an actor also can be a director.)

So they would be continued to be treated as actor/actress in that case, just credited as "Self" instead of "Himself/Herself" -- so you'd be able to use the actor/actress distinction for credit submissions.
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Bulma PunkRocker

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Gustav Wedholm Thank you very much!

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Appraiser1

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I honestly don't understand what the big deal is. "Self" is fine. I'll have a problem when they give out Oscars to "Best Actor" and "Best Actor Without A Penis". I'm French: pronouns are very important to us as a knife is masculine and a spoon is feminine, and I'd hate to find a spoon that is as gender-confused as I already am! :D Anglophones are very lucky: you have "it" which does not exist in the French. (Still don't understand why they had to go invent the ridiculous "xhir" or whatever, since "it" is already in the dictionary!) *shrugs*
(Edited)
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Bulma PunkRocker

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Appraiser1 I don't know exactly how your comment is related with my problem identifying people who share the exact same name, some are men and some are women.
I speak Spanish and everything is "el" or "la" too. But that is not important here because IMDb is in English language.
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Appraiser1

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There's a lot of comments here on the gender. I was just giving my opinion. I just was cruising IMDb now and saw the word "actress" under a performer's name. It must have been a temporary glitch, just did a standard search:

Tom Cruise (Actor, Top Gun (1986))
And clicking on his name brought this, as usual, at his page:
Tom CruiseActor | Producer | Soundtrack

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ACT_1

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? ?
  
Caitlyn Jenner
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421063/
Caitlyn Jenner was born on October 28, 1949 in Mount Kisco, New York, USA
as William Bruce Jenner. 
  
She is an actress, known for...
Has changed his name and gender legally, and will receive a new birth certificate. [September 25, 2015].
  
When preparing for the 1976 Olympics, he trained 6 to 8 hours every day for four years
  
Today (TV Series)
- Episode dated 9 September 2015 (2015) ... Self
- Episode dated 13 January 1978 (1978) ... Self (as Bruce Jenner)

Before
Caitlyn Jenner
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421063/mediaviewer/rm3206802176
 
After

Caitlyn Jenner at an event for The Oscars 2017

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0421063/mediaviewer/rm2677748224
.

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ACT_1

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner
  (Redirected from Bruce jenner)
 
Jenner culminated a 6 year decathlon career
by winning the men's decathlon event at the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal
 
In January 2017, she underwent sex reassignment surgery.
Jenner has been called the most famous transgender woman in the world.
.
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Appraiser1

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Just to be clear, ACT 1, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make?  (Not an attack, just didn't see your comments apart from the copy paste)
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ACT_1

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His Self ? ?
Her Self ? ?

.
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Appraiser1

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I see. Bruce is currently referred to as "she" ("Caitlyn"). There were published speculations in the press that the reality star was going to revert back as he (then) regretted transitioning but that never happened so he is still currently referred to as she and has said s/he is very open if people still referred to as "him". At least a few years ago. I haven't followed this since the transitioning. So for this person, I guess "self" is easier.