Several Indian/Turkish films break into Top 250

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Three films (all from India or Turkey) entered the Top 250 Movies list simultaneously, a day or two ago. Two of these films have been on the list before but had subsequently been removed. I just wonder whether this sudden appearance is due to some kind of glitch.
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Phil Leguichard

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Posted 3 years ago

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Aaron

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And now 2 more: Eskiya and Hera Pheri, from Turkey and India, respectively. IMDb, please stop this madness! They are obscure foreign films with no more than a couple thousand votes from US users. This data (https://d2r1vs3d9006ap.cloudfront.net/s3_images/1459867/RackMultipart20160802-94524-1wyl153-ratings7...) clearly shows how Turkish and Indian films receive a disproportionate number of 10 star votes - i.e. they are victims of ballot stuffing.

Merely improving the voting system does not somehow make these trashy films worthy of being on the Top 250. At this rate, the Top 250 will become meaningless within just a matter of weeks. Remember: its whole purpose is to represent the opinion of the masses, not some small minority.
(Edited)
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Phil Leguichard

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As a person who has actually SEEN the majority of these Bollywood/Turkish films, I can attest that they, for the most part, do not stand up to the quality of other films in the Top 250. I worry that this new move to reinstate them into the Top 250 is more a political move than one regarding quality. It just so happens that an "English Top 250" surfaced only a few days ago -- perhaps that is IMDb's move to appease users like you and me who will decry the Bollywood takeover of this list. I've been referring to this list almost daily for the last 6+ years.....and just recently had seen all 250 of the movies on it. But now, if this is the direction it's going to take, it may be time to say goodbye.
(Edited)
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NetConsole .

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Where is this English top 250?
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Phil Leguichard

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Re-shaping of the Top 250.

With all due respect to all employees at IMDb, my favorite website, the general Top 250 Movies list could become a travesty if too many films can edge their way in simply due to extreme-rating by highly devoted fans. Of the films that have entered the list over the last few days, Hera Pheri currently has a rating of 10 from 36.7% of the users who've rated it. For Andaz Apna Apna it's 46.7%. For My Father and My Son it's 48.4%..........and for Eskiya it's 49.6%. Forty-nine and sixth-tenths percent.

Think about how high that last one is, particularly. Even The Godfather Part II and The Dark Knight can't boast such numbers, and they sit at #'s 3 and 4 on the Top 250, respectively.  A key difference between these
and the newly-entered films, however, is that Godfather II and The Dark Knight
have incredibly bountiful and diverse vote counts, with each having hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of votes, while Eskiya, for instance, sits at only about 35,000, with fewer than 1,600 of those votes coming from "US users".

I understand that one can't make apples-to-apples comparisons of movie ratings on IMDb. I know that the weighting process involved in statistics can be a complex one, and that there are additional injustices to account for (e.g. ballot stuffing) that I can't necessarily see as merely a user, and not an administrator. I've been using this site, daily, for over 7 years, and I want to iterate that I've loved many of the foreign films I've seen, including some from India, Turkey, etc. My concern here does not regard ethnicity or language or race or even personal cinematic taste -- it only concerns my opinion of statistical integrity.

And for that reason, I want to caution IMDb against tweaking their formula so that highly-rated films mainly by virtue of a narrow, zealous fan base can make it onto the general Top 250 list. This could eventually lead to a list that's dominated by a rabid few, rather than by a steady many. I respect the founders and operators of IMDb tremendously -- for they are running a website that I consider to be among the best on the World Wide Web. I will continue to be a fan of the site and of cinema in general, for the rest of my life. But I hope that you, IMDb, consider what I have written here.
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Col Needham, Official Rep

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Thanks for the detailed feedback which we will review with the appropriate team.  [We have merged your comments into this thread to keep things in one place]. 
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Seraphim

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Why you created an Top Indian Movies Chart if you keep indian movies in both Top's?! 
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Seraphim

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Turkish super overrated movies ! Only Fake 10/10 votes..

Why IMDB system do not prevent from fake voters which vote only 10/10 ?
A turkish movie release on 4 Nov. recived 25k votes and have 98% a rating of 10/10. Thats right ! What do you want more ... ! 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5813916



Plese fix this huge probleme with Turkish and Indian who vote 10/10 , the system is a mess , i cant be silent when i see this ! 

Another movie from Turkey": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0252487 had 27k votes and 9.5/10 rating , if you see Demographic breakdowns have only 10/10. Investigate this please !
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DannyO MovieGuy

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I assumed the Indian Top 250 was created to fix this problem, and yet these movies are still in the IMDB Top 250! Why do they get to be on both lists? Giving them their own list is a great idea, but letting them stay on the regular Top 250 defeats the purpose entirely. A new Indian film, "Hera Pheri" was just allowed into the Top 250 at #122, surpassing films such as Blade Runner, Die Hard, Heat, Fargo, No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, The Wizard of Oz, The Revenant, Platoon, Rocky, The Terminator, The Thing, Jaws, and Jurassic Park. This is a huge problem that needs to be fixed. The way it is being handled is frustrating to say the least.
(Edited)
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Martin Allen

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The only way to solve it is to have an English language Top 250 and a foreign language Top 250.
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Perfect-Spirit

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True , insteed they created a Indian Top but they kept Indian movies in regular Top
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Aaron

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I don't think that would solve the problem. What we need is a Top 250 that shows the best films as voted for by regular users, regardless of what country they may come from. Splitting the Top 250 though would mean neither list would truly show us the greatest films.

The problem with these Indian and Turkish films is that they clearly suffer from ballot stuffing. Regardless of their quality, this means they do not deserve their place on the list. For a while IMDb kept these titles off the Top 250 - and rightly so; however they have now been put back on for reasons unknown. The way to solve the problem is to remove them again.
(Edited)
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DannyO MovieGuy

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Thanks to the piss poor job the IMDB staff has done at fixing this problem, the beloved classic Jaws, the universally acclaimed thriller that launched quite possibly the most popular director of all time and INVENTED the summer blockbuster is 15 spots away from leaving the list because 15 overrated, unfunny Indian films nobody has seen have surpassed it.
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Sdk ElMaruecan

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I HAVE THE SOLUTION (Message to IMDb Editors)

The trick isn't to snub foreign movies but to keep foreign movies that have objectively met with international acclaim or popularity, international is the key word (and it also applies to US movies)

The problem is that you can make all the requirements you want for the Top 250 eligibility (a certain number of US voters, votes from the Top 1000 etc.) you won't prevent hackers to create fake accounts or hack these films' way to the Top 250. You must find criteria that can't be affected by the votes from IMDb members, so forget about the votes and statistics, think about one simple and quickly identifiable parameter:

```````AWARDS & FILM FESTIVALS````````

It's as simple as that, if it's a foreign film with ONE nomination to an international, famous, if not prestigious, award (Oscar, Golden Globe, BAFTA, Golden Palm etc.) you keep it, if there are only festivals from the country the film belongs to, or even the region (Bombay International Film Festival, Filmfare, Asia Pacific etc.), you take it out. This is not just against Indian movies, even a French film that would only be nominated to the Césars wouldn't be eligible.

It's fair and square, and I checked, most of these incongruous presences would instantly disappear and be NEVER eligible.  This is not a commentary about the quality of these films, but it really makes the Top 250 reward demographics rather than quality, it's like Morocco, Columbia or Hungary will always be screwed because no matter how popular one of their films are, there are less Hungarians, Columbians or Moroccans put together than Indians. 

And with this new criteria, the other foreign movies (Rashomon, A Separation, Bicycle Thieves...) won't be affected and you'll have real Indian masterpieces like Lagaan, Salaam Bombay, The Apu Trilogy or Mother India as potential entries in IMDb Top 250.
(Edited)
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Scott Fargas

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Just spitballing with the other interested users here Stephen, which unfortunately, when you examine the current IMDb Top 250, is more than appears to be happening at IMDb istelf. Though Aaron's comment below is promising.
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Marlon Hattemer

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I don't think it's a good idea to limit the entries from any one country. If there are more than the given number of movies deemed worthy by the voters to be in the Top250, then they should be able to enter without constraints.
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Scott Fargas

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Marlon, you seem to have pirouetted from you position in previous comments? Are you now satisfied with allowing these specific 11 films in the Top 250?
(Edited)
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Marlon Hattemer

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To conclude that my comment in any way contradicts my position on the current Top250 shows a severe lack of reading comprehension.
I don't want any subpar movies in the list that only got there via exploits. I want the IMDb staff to finally get of their behinds and do something about the situation.

But limiting the number of movies from a given country is a bad idea. What if there are 15 movies from France or South Korea that would be good enough, well known enough and well liked enough to enter?

And you wouldn't get rid of the first 10 movies from India that got there via exploits.

So it would not solve much but create new problems.
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Sdk ElMaruecan

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Quotas are no good in my opinion. Seriously, the more I think about it, the more I feel 'international awards' are the fairest parameters, because it wouldn't diminish the quality of the movies produced by one country but just establish the difference between "local" and "international" masterpieces. I'm sorry but a local masterpiece has nothing to do on IMDb Top 250.
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Aaron

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Over the last 24 hours, there has been an unprecedented amount of movement within the Top 250. I recommend checking out the website http://250.took.nl/, which documents the movement of all films in the Top 250, and you can see for yourself. In just a day, some of the films being discussed here have dropped nearly 20 places! One can only guess the reason for this?
(Edited)
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Marlon Hattemer

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Seems like the 2015 Top250 is the last official IMDb Top250 list I will give a crap about. Gratulations for ruin your own integrity.

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