Someone deleting our series episode credits

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Someone keeps deleting our Series Credits for The Forsaken Westerns.
We asked support how to post our credits and we were shown several examples that applied to our series since it is a bit unique. 

Here is an example given to us by Dominic
for our unaired pilots that we include in the series.

"In cases where that have not previously been shown i.e. unaired pilots (that not otherwise available to the public i.e. on the internet) you may list the full cast and crew credits"

We are having terrible problems with this. Every time we list credits for unaired pilots our credits are removed and then after our credits are removed sometimes false pages are created for pilots that never aired. Here is one example, an unaired pilot we released as episode 6 of season 2 of The Forsaken Westerns episode titled Russell

 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8226986/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_1 

We have listed all the credits only to have them removed.

This is time consuming and we followed the rules you just stated 

After we listed the credits some of them appeared on the page. Some never did and then after awhile all were deleted.

Does anyone know how do we keep our credits from being deleted?
Thanks
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WOTW

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Posted 5 months ago

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Nikolay Yeriomin, Champion

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WOTW, the situation was alreay explained in an another thread. 

IMDb pages are not strictly official representation of the titles: they are first and foremost representation of factual data. With all respect to your outstanding work at re-discovering the unaired pilots, such have eligibility (critera are listed here) as separate titles on IMDb due to being independent and completed productions, even if they were not released per se, so these pages are not, as you put it, "fake". If you would like to stress out the fact that The Forsaken Westerns (2017) discovered these pilots and made them publically available for the first time as episodes, it could be done via trivia and movie connections sections. Considering that actors were originally participating in separate productions they cannot be added without the "(archive footage)" attribute either, in accordance to guidelines
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Joel, Employee

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Hey WOTW, 

We'll take a look into this and get back in touch. 

Thanks,

Joel
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WOTW

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Thank you Joel for your attention to this matter. I am including the email Dominic sent us about this issue.

The biggest problem we are having is with the unaired pilots. As soon as we release something that is not available for viewing online and is not on IMDb anywhere and post the credits a new page is created by someone and our credits and even sometimes photos are taken and then our credits are removed. One example of this is our first episode.

The Forsaken Westerns The Buckskin Rangers
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7270542/?ref_=ttep_ep1

The Buckskin Rangers
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7285348/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Here is the complete email Dominic sent us.

You notice he stated (In cases where that have not previously been shown i.e. unaired pilots (that not otherwise available to the public i.e. on the internet) you may list the full cast and crew credits.)

Hello Mr. Terry, 

Following on from your recent message about your series The Forsaken Western (2017), I would like to give you some confirmation.

First of all thank you for providing an example of the format you were trying to follow, we appreciate that you were attempting to use this as a guide to listing your own series. However unfortunately the example you provided does not follow our policy.

I see that you added your example to a Get Satisfaction thread about this matter a few months ago. Unfortunately the thread was marked as answered so my colleague did not see your update. Apologies for this, I am sorry that this matter has been outstanding for so long.

Our policy is that anthology series should not list credit for any titles that are otherwise listing on IMDb. Therefore in any cases where a title that you are airing is part of you series has been shown before, you may list it as an episode of your series, but only yourself as host should be listed. In cases where that have not previously been shown i.e. unaired pilots (that not otherwise available to the public i.e. on the internet) you may list the full cast and crew credits. It is also preferred to write the plot i such a way that the original format is mentioned, you can even link to the original title page in the plot.

From our help page:
https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/cast-acting-credi... 
"If a title is later shown as an episode of a series then it should be added as a shell episode. No filmography credits relating to the original title should be added to the shell to avoid crediting the work twice on the name pages of those involved. If the individual contributed to new material relating solely to that episode i.e. hosting segment then they are valid credits and may be added to the shell episode). Please also add a trivia item and a movie connection linking the episode to the original title page. "

A quite high profile recent example of this was the airing of Sherlock: The Abominable Bride as part of the anthology series Masterpiece Mystery.
Original: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3845232
Anthology series: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt528449

Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that every case like this on the site adheres to this policy but as we discover any we will make our best effort to enforce this policy.

Thank you for understanding and thank you in advance for adhering to this policy with you title submission.
Best regards,
Dominic
IMDb.com
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Will, Official Rep

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Thank you for providing the additional context WOTW, seeing that your episode was added first and there was no existing IMDb title page for the pilot then the credits should be listed on your episode page. I've now merged the separate TV movie listing into your episode page. I have spoken to the user responsible reiterating the policy. Please get back in contact on this thread if this continues happening and we can take further action.

Regards,
Will
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WOTW

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Thank you Will, for all your work and attention to this matter.
We have resubmitted the credits for the following episodes that are unreleased pilots.

The Forsaken Westerns Western Union

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7380058/?ref_=ttep_ep14

Our credits were deleted but we could not find any other page created.

The Forsaken Westerns Officers Choice

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7509954/?ref_=ttep_ep18

Our credits were deleted but we could not find any other page created.

The Forsaken Westerns Russell

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8226986/?ref_=ttep_ep6

Our credits were deleted but we could not find any other page created.

We have a few other odd things involving a few episodes that we would like to work out.
Should we discuss those on this thread, or start another thread?
Thanks
Bob
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Will, Official Rep

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Hi Bob,

Yes that's fine to continue your questions on this thread. How can I help?

Regards,
Will
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WOTW

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Hello Will.
Yes there are a couple of other things we would like to work out but at this time we still keep having our credits removed by some one. 
Right now the biggest issues are the pages you merged The Forsaken Westerns The Buckskin Rangers
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7270542/?ref_=ttep_ep1

The Buckskin Rangers
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7285348/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Someone has removed all the credits again.

We also had several cast credits approved for  

Fremont the Trailblazer 
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8762186/?ref_=ttep_ep3

They appeared earlier today and then were removed by someone. 
Here is a screen shot of the Fremont episode IMDb page from earlier today.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi WOTW -

This is confirmation that the removed credits you reported have now been reinstated on both titles, rest assured that we have taken additional steps to help prevent any further removal of these credits.  Cheers!
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WOTW

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Thank you Michelle, for all your work and attention to this matter.

A little over two weeks ago we resubmitted the credits for the following 3 episodes of
The Forsaken Westerns. These 3 are all unreleased pilots.
We could find no other pages on these titles.

The Forsaken Westerns - Western Union

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7380058/?ref_=ttep_ep14

The Forsaken Westerns - Officers Choice

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7509954/?ref_=ttep_ep18

The Forsaken Westerns - Russell

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8226986/?ref_=ttep_ep6

Our credits were deleted a while back by someone on these. 
Can you tell us when we can expect to see these credits reinstated?
Again thank you for your attention to these issues.
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WOTW

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Hello
Someone has just deleted our cast credits again that were approved for us to do and reinstated by IMDb.
for the following 5 episodes of The Forsaken Westerns.
The Buckskin Rangers
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7270542/?ref_=ttep_ep1

Western Union
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7380058/?ref_=ttep_ep14

Officer's Choice
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7509954/?ref_=ttep_ep18

Russell 
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8226986/?ref_=ttep_ep6

Fremont the Trailblazer
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8762186/?ref_=ttep_ep1

Thank you for your attention to this issue. Hopefully this issue will not continue.
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Michelle, Official Rep

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Hi WOTW -

Taking a look at these recent deletions, it appears the episode credits are being disputed by another contributor reporting that the footage for these characters are not original footage (which would be a breach of policy that would warrant removal).  

Can you confirmwhat the footage of these cast members are?You can see our archivefootage guide here for additional information: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/archive-footage/G4X4TVH6HXYBW8WM?ref_...#
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WOTW

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Thank you Michelle for your attention to this matter.

I really thought this had been worked out since our credits for certain episodes had been reinstated by IMDb as a result of our following rules emailed to us by IMDb in response to our reaching out to get this matter taken care of.

We have looked at the Archive footage rules and think those may apply to the anthology episodes we have included that have not aired for 60 years or more.
But the other footage is original footage of pilots that never aired. Some have been stored in our film collection for years.
In reading the Archive footage rules I do feel I need to say all of the episodes in The Forsaken Westerns are complete productions, not just clips or pieced together bits of productions.

We have been working trying to make sure we handle the pages for The Forsaken Westerns episodes correctly. I know this is a fairly unique situation but not totally exclusive on IMDb. 

I am including our email question and an email answer Dominic sent us on 7-3-18 about this issue.

Here is the email I sent and the response from Dominic. You will notice he stated (In cases where that have not previously been shown i.e. unaired pilots (that not otherwise available to the public i.e. on the internet) you may list the full cast and crew credits.) 
This is why we started listing credits on just the 5 episodes. Because those 5 fall under the guidelines Dominic stated in his email to us.

Our Email.

Hello My name is Bob Terry with Westerns On The Web Productions. We have been having an issue with our submissions for cast and crew of one of our series titled The Forsaken Westerns. We want to give credit where credit is due and are following examples already set forth on IMDb. But for some reason our submissions for cast and crew are being ignored and removed. Our series contains unreleased TV pilots and very old anthology series episodes. We own the rights to every episode released. (we are not pirates) Here are the examples already on IMDb that we have followed that are exactly like what we do with our series. 

The first example is the using of an episode that was previously used in another series and how to list the credits properly. When trying to decide how to do this we used 
The Rifleman example. The episode titled The Sharpshooter - 
airing 7 March 1958 as an episode of Zane Grey Theater 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0754323/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_5 
Then six months later as episode 1 of The Rifleman 30 September 1958 
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0686728/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_6 . 
As you can see the credits for cast and crew are used on both excluding Dick Powell as host when repackaged for The Rifleman. 

The second example is of an unreleased pilot. 
In 1960 Cesare Danova made a pilot titled "The Adventurer" it was not picked up. In 1961 it was released as an episode of Zane Grey Theater titled "The Release". https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0754320/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_86 

Our episode 35. Season 2 episode 6 is tilted - Russell - this rare unreleased TV pilot is listed no where else on IMDb. The cast includes Paul Carr https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0139824/?ref_=nv_sr_1 
But as you can see from his page there is no mention of the pilot episode of Russell. Or our releasing of this as an episode of The Forsaken Westerns, because we have submitted him to the cast and crew credits but it was apparently rejected. 
These are the examples we have followed. They have been on IMDb for years listed this way. What we are doing with this series is fairly unique but not anything that has not been done before and we are simply following the precedence already set forth. If these examples are done incorrectly we ask IMDb to please change the examples to the proper way to display the credits and we will follow those examples. It is our understanding that IMDb mission is to show cast and crew credits and that is all we are trying to do with our submissions. Thank you  Bob Terry

Here is the complete email Dominic sent us.

Hello Mr. Terry, 

Following on from your recent message about your series The Forsaken Western (2017), I would like to give you some confirmation.

First of all thank you for providing an example of the format you were trying to follow, we appreciate that you were attempting to use this as a guide to listing your own series. However unfortunately the example you provided does not follow our policy.

I see that you added your example to a Get Satisfaction thread about this matter a few months ago. Unfortunately the thread was marked as answered so my colleague did not see your update. Apologies for this, I am sorry that this matter has been outstanding for so long.

Our policy is that anthology series should not list credit for any titles that are otherwise listing on IMDb. Therefore in any cases where a title that you are airing is part of you series has been shown before, you may list it as an episode of your series, but only yourself as host should be listed. In cases where that have not previously been shown i.e. unaired pilots (that not otherwise available to the public i.e. on the internet) you may list the full cast and crew credits. It is also preferred to write the plot i such a way that the original format is mentioned, you can even link to the original title page in the plot.

From our help page:
https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/filmography-credits/cast-acting-credi... 
"If a title is later shown as an episode of a series then it should be added as a shell episode. No filmography credits relating to the original title should be added to the shell to avoid crediting the work twice on the name pages of those involved. If the individual contributed to new material relating solely to that episode i.e. hosting segment then they are valid credits and may be added to the shell episode). Please also add a trivia item and a movie connection linking the episode to the original title page. "

A quite high profile recent example of this was the airing of Sherlock: The Abominable Bride as part of the anthology series Masterpiece Mystery.
Original: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3845232
Anthology series: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt528449

Unfortunately we cannot guarantee that every case like this on the site adheres to this policy but as we discover any we will make our best effort to enforce this policy.

Thank you for understanding and thank you in advance for adhering to this policy with you title submission.
Best regards,
Dominic
IMDb.com

Again thank you Michelle for your attention to this issue. As I have stated before we really want to give credit where credit is due. Of course we want the attention that our series would get from the complete cast and crew being listed on our episodes pages and the momentum it would create to help keep the series going. There are legendary actors in these episodes. In several episodes there are actors who are not credited with the production anywhere and we are enthusiastic about the restoration we have done and the releasing of The Forsaken Westerns episodes to fans of the actors who have never even heard of the existence of the production.
Please let me know how we need to proceed on IMDb
Bob Terry
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Will, Official Rep

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Hi WOTW,

I have spoken to the user again and reiterated the policy. I've also reinstated credits on those episodes but it doesn't look like any cast credits have been removed from Russell - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8226986/?ref_=ttep_ep6


Regards,
Will
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WOTW

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Hello again Will. We are having trouble again. Someone is removing the cast and crew credits we had permission from Dominic at IMDb to post. We have also had difficult posting the cast for Russell https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8226986/?ref_=ttep_ep6 and Curley Bradley The Singing Marshal https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9124642/?ref_=ttep_ep13  Posting complete cast and crew for these two episodes also follows the guide lines stated by Dominic at IMDb. Thank you for your attention to these matters.
Bob Terry