The End of Thrones

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Due to the high level of negative criticism and really low ratings on the season's finale, what was the episode (from the 8th season) that made you lose hope that Game of Thrones would have a worthy ending?

The list can be found here: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls044944333/

If you have any suggestions, feel free to share (:
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NoPantsBatman™

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Posted 2 months ago

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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#6. Episode: The Iron Throne
This seriously needed the "Comedy" genre attached! What Throne?
Wicked Witch of the West
"I'm Melting"
New Title.......... 'Throne: Gone in 60 Seconds'
Oh and we have a ruler of "6 out of The 7 Kingdoms!"
This ending was PC run amok.
(Edited)
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Slava Vlasov

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1-st ends it and 2-nd nailed the last iron to the coffin. I wrote that It seems to me producers cheat us inviting different screenwriters and director under Alan Smithee names  for the last season.
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NoPantsBatman™

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You're one of the few people that I saw feeling the same as me
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Slava Vlasov

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Indeed ))
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Pencho15

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The problem with the suggestion is that it leaves out everyone who think the ending was worthy, as it assumes you were disappointed by it.

According to my ending of game of Thrones poll 26% of people liked the ending. Maybe you should have an extra option to reflect this.
For my part, I liked the ending and final episode, I did not like how we got there, in that case I would vote for 8.4 as the worst episode, but in the end it would not be an accurate answer as I did ot loose hope.
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NoPantsBatman™

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Yes, you are right about that.

I added another option to the poll to reflect that feeling. Do you think it's good the way I made the change, or should I add something else?
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Slava Vlasov

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The whole season is the nightmare. I have no idea how poor they did it. 
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Pencho15

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It seems fine. I would write I instead of You but otherwise it know allows everyone interested to vote.
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NoPantsBatman™

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You're right. I made the change, thank you (:
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XweAponX

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None of them, I highly enjoyed all of the episodes and all of the seasons.

I don't understand the negativity, it's like it came out of nowhere on the breath of dragonfire. The main complaint I have heard is:  "The Dialogue became sparse", but we forgot that whole houses got eradicated. House Baratheon, all gone save one bastard. Houses Stark and Lannister, trimmed down extensively. House Tyrell, totally gone. House Frey, victims of Arya. House of Arryn, taken over by Stinkfinger. The leadership of Dorne, killed off by the Sand Snakes who were then killed by Cersei. The Sept of the Seven: Rubble, and all of the Sparrows roasted with green fire. The head families of Meereen, Dragonfodder. So with a loss like that of what were major characters, there is obviously going to be a large drop in the quantity and quality of conversations.

The other complaint, "GOT had become an Action series", but also forget that the whole show from S01E01 led up to the Living vs the Dead and the Battle with the Night King, followed by the Burning of King's Landing, which Brann had seen in one of his first visions from the original 3-Eyed Raven: In S04E02, Brann has a rapid succession of images, one of them is the shadow of a Dragon flying over King's Landing. We didn't know what that meant back then, but we do know now, and all of the elements of season 8 seems like they were put into place long before it was made. We had been given hints like this all through the series, usually in the form of "Prophecies" and Visions.

There were a few things I would have liked to see, but season 8 was basically a Denouement after several seasons filled with climaxes, but it had to include the two final battles. Not much story to tell after that other than wrapping it all up. Plus, I was glad that all of the cool people I really liked ended up on the Small Council, including Ser Bron of the Blackwater and Sam, which must have humbled those Maesters who would not listen to him at The Citadel...
(Edited)
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NoPantsBatman™

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I understand your points, but what I feel (and the people around me feel) is slightly different. All those people that have died shouldn't make a difference; Tyrion and Varys are still alive, two of the biggest characters developing dialogue (this is just as an example).

I was also expecting that season 8, even season 7, would be more focused on battle and confrontations, but then you have a huuge battle in Winterfell against the "most powerful" enemy, and he just died in the most anti-climatic way (this is just an example).

Another thing that most people complain about is the lack of actual development of the story. Yes, a lot of things happened, a lot of twists and events, but those events just happened without real development, kind of like reading the topics of a book instead of actually reading the book.

This being said, I'm happy that you were able to enjoy the end of the series, unlike me and many other people. I would like to feel the same way.
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XweAponX

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I have been watching the previous seasons, and I completely disagree. Everything that occurred in season eight was referred to in great detail in every previous season, down to the smallest comment made by the smallest character.

You see what people are really complaining about is that there simply was no story left for the storytelling to be the same as it was in the first four seasons , oh it would have been great had there been enough story left to tell the remaining seasons that way, but every previous storyline had been resolved. Back in season three I believe, the relationship between Brianne and Jamie developed into what we knew would be a sexual relationship later, and that was fulfilled in the last few episodes- but we already knew what Jamie‘s ultimate decision would be.

In the last season, all that was really required was for that storyline, and a few others, to be topped off.

But if you refer back to the third season episodes where this is all developing, it was developed in extremely great detail. In every episode of seasons two and three, we have very short vignettes, which cover the progress of a host of characters: Of course there is the story of Daenerys and Jon Snow in their respective parts of the world, at that time we didn’t know that the two would be joined except for a hint That Daenerys received in a vision in the house of the undying: when she walks into the house of the undying and suddenly she comes out of the tunnel that leads into the north beyond the wall: which brings her to a tent where she sees Khal Drogo and what would have been their son. But the fact is she has to walk through an ice field to get to this, which means that the sorcerer in the house of the undying must have known something about her future.

And this is detail that can be extracted from watching that very short Vignette: and the first three seasons are splattered with these little hints about what is to come.

When Theon Greyjoy takes over Winterfell, Roose Bolton tells Robb Starck that he will “send his bastard to extract Theon and take Winterfell back” for him.

Now just look at the way that this was handled, in very short scenes sometimes less than a minute long, we were told that Ramsey Bolton was on his way. Oh, we didn’t know him by name, and the way that they introduced to the character was by trickery. But, basically everything we needed to know about what led up to the battle of the bastards was hinted at, if you turned your head for one second while watching one of those episodes, you definitely would have missed key information.

Even the ending of the show was shown to us in “The Lion and the Rose”, Where Brann has a vision of a dragon flying over Kings Landing. And there was absolutely no getting around this, except for musing about who exactly would be flying that Dragon

But the problem is, starting around season four, large chunks of characters were being removed from the series on a practically episodic basis. So starting around that time they gave more attention to certain plot points where they gave it more than just a couple of minutes of viewing time.

Ergo, y the end of the series we really didn’t have this fast flicking back-and-forth between numerous characters, but more elongated scenes with more informational transactions. and I don’t know what show that you were watching, but in every one of those elongated scenes with discussions or events, I saw a lot of information past to us, so nobody can tell me that the “writing was sparse“, because there were some very heavily detailed conversations in the last season.

Sorry, but the result of the style of storytelling up to season four would eventually lead up to a seemingly more barren landscape of characters and events, just like it did. And there was no way around this, either, other than giving the show for more seasons? But what story would that tell, seeing as how there hasn’t been any further story told ( in book form ) beyond what this show covers?

Were there were less small reveals or hints or prophecies of things to come, seasons seven and eight would have had to cover that information either in flashback form or with elongated scenes of discussion and exposition. .

However, starting around season six or so, they were not adding any new characters to the storylines. If they had been, then they could have resumed that rapid back-and-forth between numerous characters that we all loved it so much.

But what would have been the point with the night King Dead, The army of dead turned into piles of bones, and only one major battle left, and if we had paid attention we knew exactly what was going to happen during this battle.

Oh, I hoped that Daenerys would not have gone all mad queen on us, But there was no other way around it, because Brans’ visions were not merely suggestions, whatever he saw, that is exactly what happened.

Sorry but your complaint is not really valid, it’s better explained that you are not happy because you had certain expectations for the characters that you loved, and when that didn’t happen, you were disappointed. Or, you wanted to see certain things happening and when that never materialized you labeled the whole season as “sparse and rushed“.

Nope, it really wasn’t. The entire show followed the exact and proper form for any ur-Fantasy novel: you have a beginning, middle, and end end. And the beginning of any story is always highly detailed, the middle of a story is continuation and a plot of development leading up to a huge confrontation of some sort, and the end of a story is always the denouement, and by classic definition of that part of a story, you can either change it, or draw it out like the ending of the return of the king. I don’t feel that this ending was drawn out or compressed in anyway, it was simply the logical conclusion of a highly complicated story, where at least 60% of the plot points had already been totally resolved before the season ever started. So all that was really you left was what we knew was coming, and to expect anything further, well I never expected anything beyond what was delivered.

Course I wanted certain things: I wanted to see Jon Snow climb up on Drogon and fly away, I wanted to find out if there were anything else like white walkers wandering around in the northern wasteland, and I really want you to see the land where the red woman came from. But because I was not given these things, I am certainly not going to bash the entire season and pen the creators/show runners/writers.

I swear, in all of this #pogrom, I don’t see any bashing of George RR Martin. And he had his fingers in this series, forsaking the writing of the very book that it is based upon to participate in the production of it.
(Edited)
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XweAponX

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Dammit I had typos I was trying to fix and it would not let me edit this further! Grr!

Sorry, I'll post the edits here- Maybe a friendly Mod can apply the edit to my OP?

I have been watching the previous seasons, and I completely disagree. Everything that occurred in season eight was referred to in great detail in every previous season, down to the smallest comment made by the smallest character.<br><br> You see what people are really complaining about is that there simply was no story left for the storytelling to be the same as it was in the first four seasons ,  oh it would have been great had there been enough story left to tell the remaining seasons that way, but every previous storyline had been resolved.  Back in season three I believe, the relationship between Brianne and Jamie  developed into what we knew would be a sexual relationship later, and that was fulfilled in the last few episodes-  but we already knew what Jamie‘s ultimate decision would be.<br><br>In the last season, all that was really required was for that storyline, and a few others, to be topped off. <br><br> But if you refer back to the third season episodes where this is all developing, it was developed in extremely great detail.  In every episode of seasons two and three, we have very short vignettes,  which cover the progress of a host of characters:   Of course there is the story of Daenerys  and Jon Snow in their respective parts of the world,  at that time we didn’t know that the two would be joined except for a hint   That  Daenerys received  in a vision in the house of the undying:  when she walks into the house of the undying and suddenly she comes out of the tunnel that leads into the north beyond the wall: which brings her to a tent  where she sees Khal Drogo  and what would have been their son.  But the fact is she has to walk through an ice field to get to this, which means that the sorcerer in the house of the undying must have known something about her future.<br><br>And this is detail that can be extracted from watching that very short Vignette:  and the first three seasons are splattered with these little hints about what is to come.<br><br>When Theon Greyjoy takes over Winterfell, Roose  Bolton tells Robb Starck that he will “send his bastard to extract Theon and take Winterfell back” for him.<br><br>Now just look at the way that this was handled, in very short scenes sometimes less than a minute long,  we were told that  Ramsey Bolton was on his way.  Oh, we didn’t know him by name, and the way that they introduced to the character was by trickery. But, basically everything we needed to know about what led up to the battle of the bastards was hinted at,  if you turned your head for one second while watching one of those episodes, you definitely would have missed key information.<br><br> Even the ending of the show was shown to us in “The Lion and the Rose”,   Where Brann has a vision of a dragon flying over Kings Landing.  And there was absolutely no getting around this, except for musing about who exactly would be flying that Dragon<br><br>But the problem is, starting around season four, large chunks of characters were being removed from the series on a practically episodic basis.  So starting around that time they gave more attention to certain plot points where they gave more than just a couple of minutes of viewing time.<br><br>Ergo, by the end of the series we really didn’t have this fast flicking back-and-forth between numerous characters, but more elongated scenes with more informational transactions.  And I don’t know what show that you were watching, but in every one of those elongated scenes with discussions or events, I saw a lot of information passed to us, so nobody can tell me that the “writing was sparse“,  because there were some very heavily detailed conversations in the last season.<br><br>Sorry, but the  result of the style of storytelling up to season four  would eventually lead up  to a seemingly more barren landscape of characters and events, just like it did.  And there was no way around this either, other than giving the show four more seasons? But what story would that tell, seeing as how there hasn’t been any further story told (in book form) beyond what this show covers?<br><br>Were we given less small reveals or hints or prophecies of things to come, seasons seven and eight  would have had to cover that information either in flashback form or with elongated scenes of discussion and exposition. <br><br> However, starting around season six or so,  they were not adding any new characters to the story. If they had been, they could have resumed that rapid back-and-forth between numerous characters that we all loved so much.<br><br> But what would have been the point with the Night King Dead,  The army of dead turned into piles of bones, and only one major battle left,  and if we had paid attention we knew exactly what was going to happen during this battle?<br><br> Oh, I hoped that Daenerys would not have gone all mad queen on us, But there was no other way around it, because Brans’ visions were not merely suggestions, whatever he saw, that is exactly what happened.<br><br>Sorry but I fear your complaint is not really valid, it’s better explained that you are not happy because you had certain expectations for the characters that you loved, and when that didn’t  materialize, you were disappointed.   I have to admit, I felt that way. Or, you wanted to see certain things happen and when they never did,  you labeled the whole season as “sparse and rushed“.<br><br> Nope, it really wasn’t. The entire show followed the exact and proper form for any Ur-Fantasy novel:  you have a beginning, middle, and an end.  And the beginning of any story is always highly detailed, the middle of a story is continuation and a plot of development leading up to a huge confrontation of some sort, and the end of a story is always the  denouement,  by classic definition of that part of a story, you can either tell  it as it lays, or draw it out like the ending of the return of the king,  and I felt that •that• was rushed and sparse. I don’t feel that this ending was drawn out or compressed in any way, it was simply the logical conclusion of a highly complicated story, where at least 60% of the plot points had already been totally resolved before the season ever started.  So all that was really left was what we knew was coming, and to expect anything further, well I never expected anything beyond what was delivered.<br><br> Of course I wanted certain things: I wanted to see Jon Snow climb up on Drogon and fly away,  I wanted to find out if there were anything else like white walkers wandering around in the northern wasteland, and I really wanted to see the land where the Red Woman came from.  But because I was not given these things, I am certainly not going to bash the entire season and pan the creators/show runners/writers.<br><br>I swear, in all of this #pogrom,  I don’t see any bashing of George RR Martin. And he had his fingers in this series,  forsaking the writing of the very book that it is based upon to participate in the production of it.
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NoPantsBatman™

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Like I said in my previous comment, I'm happy you were able to enjoy the series.

I didn't mention anywhere that I didn't like the outcome of the events because, as you said, most of them were expected from parts of the previous seasons. I merely said the events happened too fast; for example, Dany going mad. Yes, that as "predictable", but it just fell a bit off. Why not go mad the moment her second dragon is killed, or the moment Missandei is killed? That kind of madness comes for some kind of trigger, and the hearing of the bells leading to that felt off.

And if this was the only outcome possible (not much development and just conclusion) why would GRRM want more than the 8 seasons we got? He convinced the directors to make 8 instead of 7, even though he wanted more than 8. HBO wanted more (10 I think), but they made 8.

Again, I'm happy that you're able to enjoy the way it is, but the fact is that a lot of people are not happy with it. GoT set up a standard, and most people felt that that standard was not met in the end.

A lot of GoT is about the journey, and the ending is part of the journey. If the ending doesn't feel right, the journey feels incomplete.

Personally, GoT is the best series made to date, but I can't help but feel disappointment, and I'm not alone in that. A lot of people liked the ending, a lot of people disliked. Is someone right or wrong? Probably not, it's just a matter of perspective. But putting aside people's disappointment just because you liked it I think it's wrong.
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XweAponX

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Dammit, it did it to me again, removed my ability to edit so I could not get rid of the hypertext markup! Grrr
(Edited)
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XweAponX

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Crap,.I logged in with the wrong account! Sorry about that!

Let me put it like this: I have no beef with people who just didn't LIKE the episode. However, the OP was posted as if it were a "fact" that "The Last Season and Series Finale was BAD" - Which is definitely NOT a "fact". 

I feel that a lot of the negative responses are not genuine, and I have brought this up before, there are large amounts of accounts trolling IMDb, and I believe a lot of them are from robotic accounts owned by ONE person, so that these people, SINGLE individuals, are representing themselves as dozens of people, in some cases hundreds of people. But that is a different issue for a different time. although it is related to the perception that more people hated this episode and season than liked it, which is a false representation.

There are equal amounts of people, like me, who are wholly satisfied with the way this show has run its course. And I as I said in my review of this episode, the concept of DEMOCRACY was introduced, which brings a lot of nut jobs out of the woodwork, who react when such concepts are introduced.Because that is to "PC" or something. 

We simply don't treat IMBd and Rotten Tomatoes as some kind of "Alternate REDDIT" which we use to drag the rating of a show or an episode down, or to make negative reactions MORE visible than the positive. But our single, individual votes and opinions can't stand up the the barrage of inflated numbers of bad reviews and one-star ratings. I can't represent my single opinion as if it were 20, and I won't. But there are those who DO. And, GOT is not the only show that has received this treatment.

It would be better, to make a poll targeted for those who were disappointed as to WHY they thought so, but not treat the subject as an absolute fact.Because that is simply not the truth.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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XweAponX, just asking a few things because I'm curious (you have all the right not to answer)

1) Where are you from? I'm asking because I'm interested how #pogrom came into existence. 
2) Why do you have two accounts?
(Edited)
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NoPantsBatman™

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I believe there is already one poll regarding the why people are disappointed, and my poll is basically targeted to people who disliked the last season (even though I put an option for people who enjoyed it).

What you say may be true, but there's a survey online asking the "remake of season 8" and more than 1 million people signed. That's a small number compared to the actual number of viewers, but there's probably a lot of people that are disappointed and didn't sign (like me). But either way, more than 1 million people, I think that says something about this topic.

I understand your frustrations about all of this, the Internet was (still is) filled with people complaining, and it's quite overwhelming, even for me.

I made this poll just for fun, and since a lot of us are feeling like this, why not see when all of it went truly bad? (in our perspective)
(Edited)
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XweAponX

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I am in San Diego County.

I have two accounts because I accidentally made a second one thinking that it was the same email address as the first one. When I made my response I accidentally used this account, which I don’t use much.

The word “pogrom”, it’s not just how Game of Thrones suddenly became overly scrutinized with negative attention, this is an ongoing thing that started maybe four, five years ago and it’s just gotten worse, not just on IMDb but, well you know that rotten tomatoes has been attacked on occasion by an infusion of robotic fake accounts? But they did something about it and removed a lot of the Bots they could detect. Certain things give this activity away: if you just scan through any recent movie or TV show that suddenly started getting a lot of negative attention, especially when the initial reactions were extremely positive, (a good example would be “Warcraft” directed by Duncan Jones, The very first reactions were extremely positive, but then all of a sudden this was overshadowed by a huge influx of negative reviews and ratings). That’s just one example. But the things to look for are reviews at are basically verbatim duplicates, and reviews that may be similar to others that include bulleted lists of complaints. I mean, really, who gives that much attention to something that they hate?

When you think about it, what kind of person, when they actually despise something, LEAPS onto their home PC or hand device to post very long negative reviews of something that they absolutely hated? I don’t know of anybody that would invest the time to do this if they hated something, The most common reaction would be not to bother. Which is basically what I do, except for those rare occasions when I myself post a one star, but I never do it on the very day something is released.

In general I only post positive reviews and ratings when I have been extremely moved by something and I want to get my thoughts about it published as quickly as possible. IMDb had been the best outlet for that until this activity started, although I use my own review site.

But when you start to see hundreds of people posting basically the same identical complaint, there’s simply something going on that’s not normal.

Years ago, I put my up reviews and thoughts about Star Wars episodes one through three, which are some of my rare one star ratings and reviews (it takes a lot for me to despise something), I happened to skim through the user reviews of those films, it was basically equally distributed hate/love. And when I put up those negative reviews, I did not do it on the very day that the films were released, I did it years later. But lately when the negative reviews appear, they usually start within hours of the first showing, or sometimes while the episode is still playing On TV! It is as if they didn’t even wait until it was over before they posted their bulleted list.

These days, you look through just about any release, be it a TV show or a film, and a lot of times, I’m not saying all of the time, but you will see it lopsided toward “hate”- including hundreds of “not helpful” votes (aka the “IMDb Downvote Button”) on any positive reviews .

10 years ago this was not happening.
(Edited)
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O_o...

https://d2r1vs3d9006ap.cloudfront.net/s3_images/1791254/RackMultipart20190530-17660-nrasns-critic.jpg?1559188818
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That's an interesting explanation, XweAponX, thanks. However I was merely interested how it even entered English considering that it's mostly a word from Slavic languages.  

I can totally agree that aggregation websites and rise of hype criticism made it harder for movies to find the audience and also not to fall into strictly "awful" or "brilliant". Simplifications like that always frustrate me as a film fan as I know that there's always something of value even in worst movies and there's always a failure or two even in the most acclaimed ones. 
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XweAponX

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Oh! Haha!!! I don’t know, I’m not really a linguist, I collect weird words and I use them because they sound funny .

I’m sorry for my extremely large TOME (tm) I posted in response . Hopefully that will explain to certain people why I don’t believe that the ratings on IMDb for the last episode and season represent the true feelings of the fans of the show, because everybody that I have spoken to ( Face to face ) loved it. And of all of my friends on Facebook only one of them didn’t like it and his opinion of it is another stamped out clone, meaning it sounds like everybody else’s invalid arguments, that came from a Reddit post and not from their own minds.

I just watched the rains of Castamere last night, which is probably the most disturbing episode of the entire show , but it also represents the exact middle of the show and the point where all of these issues came to a head and had to start coming together and resolving after that . It’s the first we see of a white walker, The one that I call “no shirt“, which was probably the infant that was left at crafters and picked up by The white walker and transformed by the the night king (in his first ever appearance)- because no other white walkers ran around with no shirt like that. But that is the one that we see killed by Sam’s obsidian knife. Also Daenerys collecting the second sons, Bran finally getting into the north. A lot of very significant things happen, but it’s also the start of the thinning out of all of the storylines, so by the time we get to the end of season seven there was literally nothing left. Why go back-and-forth rapidly between different groups of characters if there are no characters left and they are all gathered in the same place ( Winterfell ) anyway? There was no other way for the story to be written and I don’t know how the book is going to be different or if it will be, but I don’t see George R.R. Martin complaining about it either, he loved it.

I had not noticed it before but the red woman cursed three people: Robb Starck, Joffrey Baratheon, and Theon grayjoy‘s father - and within a very short time after the leeches thing, they were all dead in pretty horrible ways. It’s weird when you have to go back and watch episodes that you originally BingeWatched, you pick up a lot of the detail that you saw the first time but you didn’t understand its significance until the end of the show, and other storylines that came later explained it.
(Edited)
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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XweAponX collecting weird words sounds like a smart and unique hobby... Says the guy, who also does that, to be honest. :) 
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urbanemovies

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I think that season 8 was good and I'm happy with the outcome.