Top 250 Bottom Positions

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  • Problem
  • Updated 6 months ago
  • Not a Problem
During the last months I've analyzed the top 250. I think there is a problem with the position from 245 to 250. I know we don't have to follow a perfect average rating because of a weighted rating in the chart. The problem is that there are 10 films that are rotating in that positions and their rating are going deep down day by day.
The list of this movies: 
-PK
-Three Colours: Red
-Song of The Sea
-Fanny & Alexander
-Akira
-Gangs of Wasseypur
-Hong Kong Express
-Drishyam
-La Leggenda Del Pianista Sull'Oceano

Why other movies with higher rating and rating that are increasing week by week doesn't have the chance to be featured on the list anymore?

The list of the other movies:
-Lion
-Roman Holidays
-The Man Who Killed Liberty Vance
-Wonder
-Papillon

It's like the movies in the 1st list have to be in the chart even if they don't deserve it. Like there's a small bag where IMDB pick titles from.

I think they need to expand the list to other titles. What you think ?
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honolulu styles

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Posted 6 months ago

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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Could you provide the top 250 link please that you are using
It should be this one.
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?groups=top_250&sort=user_rating,desc&start=201&ref_=ad...

These are the bottom 5





(Edited)
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Col Needham, Official Rep

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Ed, this is an advanced title search which includes all titles in the top rated movies list, but the sorting will always differ from the official list at https://www.imdb.com/chart/top 
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Thanks I realized that afterwards.
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honolulu styles

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I'm using the Official Top 250 IMDB list.
https://www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=nv_mv_250
It's not one of my lists.
The list you post is either not right because it's a list based on a perfect average vote. The top 250 is a weighted average chart.
By the way your list is ordered only on the average vote, and then movies with the same vote are ordered by the release date. So it's not right.
I think IMDB is blocking some movies to enter the list. It's okay for lesser known turkish movies that have 90% of 10 votes but it's not right to other movies that deserves to be there.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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There is a minimum number of votes required to get into the top 250 list.
If you look at the list closely you will notice more than the bottom 5 fluctuates
#192 is a new addition as it just recently broke the minimum 25,000 vote threshold for inclusion, along with a weighted average that is high enough.
#166 is fairly new also,
#183 on the list keeps getting moved around because of a low vote count.
Also any movie from #217 on down could fall off the list if it drops to a 7.9
The list is constantly changing.
(Edited)
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ljdoncel, Champion

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Hi, Honolulu styles:
I think IMDB is blocking some movies to enter the list.
Have you checked IMDb Top 250 History? So far, 949 different films have appeared on the chart at some point. I think that has likely adjusted the criteria to make the list along the years (regular voters, minimum votes, etc.) but I find hard to believe that a block to some particular films exists.
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Vincent Fournols

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Thanks ljdoncel, that link is a gem :)
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honolulu styles

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@ljdoncel i know that link and that is why I ve analyzed the chart so closely
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honolulu styles

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@ed i know that if a movie has less votes is subject to more frequent moves on the chart.. that's what happening to evangelion, eskiya or andhandhun. In that site you can see movies moving daily. But I see that some movies from 245 to 250 goes up and down daily while their average rating is constantly dropping down. That's the main issue.
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Nikolay Yeriomin (Mykola Yeromin), Champion

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ljdoncel, was not aware of that link. Neat! 
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Vincent Fournols

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FWIW, here is my current display of the bottom titles. Please note that "Chungking Express" and "The Exorcist" show and are not detailed in the inital post:

(Edited)
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honolulu styles

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I meant Hong Kong Express is like Chungking Express... btw PK went up 1 places but tomorrow will be back at 246. It's not the thing i was saying. The problem is movies like Lion or Wonder doesn't have the chance to be on the chart
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Vincent Fournols

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It should not be a matter of chance, there are just rules being applied.
The differences may be due to the fact that the actual rating may change from day to day (based on new people rating the movie, former raters changing or retracting theirs). At this level, the sorting may be done after the 4th or 5th decimal, impacted by these daily changes.

Anyway, an IMDb staff view will be welcome!
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honolulu styles

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Yes...it's right what you say about decimal points. but for example "song of the sea" is losing 0,0005 points every day. In 100 days is a big downfall.. it's like losing 0,05 and it's in the same position as 4 months ago. I think something isn't working properly
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Vincent Fournols

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Since IMDb does not share the way they actually compute the displayed rating of a program, I would not commit myself to being able to mention this 0,0005
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Col Needham, Official Rep

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Vincent is correct here.

All we can say about voting is covered in the FAQ at https://help.imdb.com/article/imdb/track-movies-tv/faq-for-imdb-ratings/G67Y87TFYYP6TWAV
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honolulu styles

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Complete list of movies that pop up daily from position 245 to 250:
-PK
-The exorcist
-Three Colours: Red
-Fanny & Alexander
-Akira
-Chungking Express
-8 1/2
-Song Of The Sea
-Drishyam
-Gangs of Wasseypur
-The Legend of 1900
-Lagaan
-Kis Uykusu
-The Mirror
-Paper Moon
These movies always get downvoted but usually pop up on the chart.
They don't have the power and the average votes of titles like Guardian of The Galaxy or The Curse Of The Black Pearl that comes back in the chart gettin upvoted that deserve to be there.
(Edited)
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Vincent Fournols

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Please allow me to totally disagree with your approach of "deserve"!!!!!
"8 1/2" on the bottom edge of the list while "Guardian of the Galaxy" or "Curse of the Black Pearl" reign above seems like a enormous hoax to me... ;o)
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Vincent Fournols

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Anyway, "Shawshank Redemption" is a good movie indeed, but it has always stood at the first place since the early beginning of this list, and this has always been another very puzzling bewilderment to me!
(Edited)
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honolulu styles

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The word "deserve" i used it's not meanted for a movie i liked or not. But what numbers say. Numbers say that titles deserve to be there whether i like em or not
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Vincent Fournols

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I know, I was just giving my subjective feelings a break on a lazy and sunny Saturday morning ;o)
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MAthePA

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Hi, honolulu styles.

There is a good point to start or finish (it depends) this discussion:
As indicated at the Top Rated Movies page, only votes from regular IMDb voters are considered when creating the top 250 out of the full voting database. This explains any difference between the vote averages reported in the top 250 lists and those on the individual title pages. This also explains why movies or shows you might think from their averages ought to appear on the list yet do not actually appear there.
To maintain the effectiveness of the top 250 lists, we deliberately do not disclose the criteria used for a person to be counted as a regular voter.
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honolulu styles

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Yes. Perfect. I know this rule. But in a long span of time it's like people who upvoted "Lion" are all not regular IMDB voters, the same thing for whom that downvoted "Song of The Sea". And vice versa. I think there is a small list of titles you choose the titles from.
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MAthePA

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It's not a rule to follow. It is the official explanation how this system works and why you may be mistaken when counting only on absolute ratings. The latter may have no influence at all, but it's sure countable for minimum requirements to be included in the top or not.
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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See my reply above please
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MAthePA

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Ed, I've read all the replies of yours and Vincent's. Sorry guys, but they just follow the initial talking about nothing, trying to explain the visual little part of hidden things. 

If someone in this thread may tell for sure the number of regular voters involved at the moment of making screenshot of Top 250, and the ranks set by the regular voters, then we all have an opportunity for objective discussion.
(Edited)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I'm relaying a post of Dan Dassows. It takes 25,000 votes to be on the list. Documentaries and shorts are excluded. The rankings to get on the list are much more finite than the ratings we see. I believe it is down to .001 increments.
So it is not speculation.
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Vincent Fournols

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MA, I do not understand your post: in any case, the ranking is computed by a system with its own rules, why can change over time. IMDb refuses to share these rules, so they are left to conjectures from contributors on this forum.

To me an "objective discussion" is an oxymore. And at least, this discussion has clarified some points and above all, it has enabled ljdoncel to share a link to a great tool around the initial topic. So if the discussion is not up to your expected level, there is no need for you to jump in.
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Vincent Fournols

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FWIW, this is what shows at the bottom of the list:



The last link is this one: https://help.imdb.com/article/imdb/featured-content/why-doesn-t-a-title-with-the-average-user-vote-o...#

(Edited)
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MAthePA

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VF, if you don't understand my post, please unlike it. Because there is only one "like", and it's from you.
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Vincent Fournols

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I was reacting to that post: https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topics/top-250-bottom-positions?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_b...
And I am a big boy to know what I like ;)
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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I like French Pastry and Tall Women. Uma comes to mind!
(Edited)
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Nick Burfle

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Um... aren't MAthePA and Vincent making the same point, that we don't have the data needed for an objective analysis?  M..'s 2nd paragraph just says what we could do if we had it.  Peace!
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Nick Burfle

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Um... aren't MAthePA and Vincent making the same point, that we don't have the data needed for an objective analysis?  M..'s 2nd paragraph just says what we could do if we had it.  Peace!
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honolulu styles

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Not to mention that in the English top 250 instead we have a total different and opposite issue.. movies stay there forever without any movement.. a lot of old movies..
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Vincent Fournols

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What do you mean by "English top 250"?
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honolulu styles

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https://www.imdb.com/chart/top-englis...
The top 250 without japanese Indian Italian movies
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Seriously?!
All three nations movies are in there.
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honolulu styles

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No.... these nations are in the top 250 not in the english chart ..
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Ed Jones (XLIX)

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Now 2 of us have asked you to define English chart.
Define it please.

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honolulu styles

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I think that in the list you find movies played in English.. so "la leggenda" is an Italian movie with an Italian director but actors play in English.