'Trolls' on the Religion board.

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Hello. As a long time user of IMDb, over 8 years and counting, I've spent much of my time on the Religion, Faith and Spirituality board (previous the Passion of the Christ message board until we were all moved :) ) and it's begun to bother me just how many fake posters, accounts and basically internet thugs there are on that board now. One poster especially, called Discerningly_Tasty, has ruined the board with what we assume are sock accounts, encouraging mass reporting of innocuous and innocent posts and generally making himself a nuisance. We're also worried he may be an IMDb moderator, or know someone who is, because he had one poster banned and now knows that person's quota is 30 minutes, despite said poster never mentioning it to anyone. I can understand if IMDb mods receive so many reports now that they just delete/ban accounts to save themselves time, but 70 regular and frequent visitors to that message board have now left and set up their own private message board because the state of the Religion board is just not user friendly anymore. Is there any way someone could potentially look into this problem and especially Discerningly_Tasty to see if he really is using multiple accounts? He and the other trolls on that board are making it a very unpleasant place to be. Thanks regardless :)
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Mark Casey

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Posted 7 years ago

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7 years ago
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Dan Dassow, Champion

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Discerningly_Tasteful
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur36744647/
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur36744647/b...

This user is not an IMDb admin and has had his posting history deleted.
He also tends to either vote 1 (42%) or 10 (41%) on titles.

Board: Religion, Faith, and Spirituality
http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000108/t...

It appears that this has become a rather unpleasant board. Since it looks like the IMDb staff is aware of this problem, it would be a good idea to place those you consider trolls on your ignore list. It probably would be better to simply avoid this board.
7 years ago
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Stan Snell

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At the moment, 70+ of us ARE simply avoiding the RFS board. More people are approaching us all the time to join our private message board, because they're fed up with the troll presence on IMDb RFS. Surely there is a more satisfactory solution that can be applied?

Are you saying that long-time IMDb users who have been driven off-site by this troll group are simply out of luck? This does not sound like a reasonable customer service policy to me, and most of us are long-time Amazon customers in good standing.

I posted a follow-up complaint to this one here:

https://getsatisfaction.com/imdb/topi...

If you'd like a formal petition, I'm sure something can be arranged.
7 years ago
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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When users report, then ignore, two things happen. The site uses authentication and the progressive disciplinary steps. Eventually, posts get deleted, posting quotas raised, then authentication revoked. The trolls will keep needing to re-authenticate with new cell phone number or credit card or tire of doing so and stop trolling or move along. There is no good way to block someone from a site.

Also, ignoring trolls is the only proven method for dealing with them, so if everyone reports them, then ignores them, you've all done your best.

That said, round up and exterminate all the trolls and I guarantee a new infestation starts in the next day. There is a reason they say, "three topics you never discuss at a party are sex, politics and religion."

IMDb is primarily a film information database. The message boards are a low priority feature and off topic boards even lower. That's why the site recommends if you're having problems there, you should stick to the core features of the site and avoid the message boards.

They don't likely want a petition on the subject. It might not be a great customer service issue in general, but they have millions of hits monthly to the site...very few, relatively speaking to the message boards...fewer still to that off topic board, which will likely always be a problem area. They'd prefer we use the system in place.
7 years ago
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Stan Snell

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Thanks for the reply. There are several problems with your response:

1. Putting trolls on "ignore" doesn't prevent them from reporting you. If trolls are reporting you on the RFS board, and your on-topic RFS posts/threads get deleted, it is an insanely frustrating experience.

2. "There is no good way to block someone from a site." With all due respect, this statement is patently false. Banning someone's IP address is nearly foolproof. There are ways to remove the offending users permanently from the site. What you're basically telling me is that the admins don't want to. Why?

3. This isn't about "doing our best," dude. This is about solving a problem.

4. "[R]ound up and exterminate all the trolls and I guarantee a new infestation starts in the next day." This point is also patently untrue. I have been posting on the RFS board for 8 years and I have never, *ever* seen anything like this before. It is almost as if the administration of IMDb has decided to sanction and protect this specific troll group, as if they were some sort of endangered species. Again, why? What is the logic here? Is Amazon actively *trying* to drive away customers?

5. "IMDb is primarily a film information database." Yes, I know. Those of us who have been using the RFS board for years used it to discuss religious films, documentaries, actors, directors, and journalists related to religion. We would then purchase media, much of the time from Amazon.com, related to the subject matter. The troll infestation has damaged our discussions and hence our purchasing activities.

6. "[T]he site recommends if you're having problems there, you should stick to the core features of the site and avoid the message boards." This is akin to telling someone that if they get mugged, it's their fault because they should've avoided the street they got mugged on. Come on- that's not even trying.

7. "They don't likely want a petition on the subject." Ah, I see. This is the crux of your response, isn't it? Translation: "We don't care how long you've been communicating on our message board, we don't care that you've developed a community, and we don't care that this troll disruption of your community has interrupted your consumption of Amazon.com goods and services." That's really the point, isn't it?

Your response is entirely unsatisfactory, friend. What's really going on here? Are one or more of the IMDb admins in collusion with the troll group on the RFS board in some way? Because that's how this is coming across. It's as if you actively *want* to drive off those of us who were using that board for real discussion.
7 years ago
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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1) You're right. It does not. But the system addresses that. Abusing the report system results in their future reports being ignored. It can be reported by choosing one of the posts they've made and explain it in the "none of the above" reason (or let the system catch up with them). You can also post, then bookmark your post and if deleted, include a link to the post/thread in your report-but make sure there was nothing wrong with the post or it could backfire).

2) IP blocking does not work. If you block me, I'd change my IP address and be back in seconds. Second problem with that, is IP addresses rotate or get re-used (or get shared) and the result could be innocent folks being blocked. IMDb used to use that but only do so in the most extreme of cases because it simply is not too useful.

3) Well, if you can do better than your best, knock yourself out (though, that's not possible, right?).

4) Since that board started, people have come complaining about trolling to the Help Board.

5) No comment.

6) I was not "trying" but letting you know what the site's line on the matter is. If I state something it's based on prior knowledge or posted comments/policies.

See:
I want to complain about the way the message boards are moderated!
We are sorry to hear that. However, if you disagree with the policies outlined in our Terms & Conditions of Use document or are otherwise dissatisfied with the contents or operation of our message boards, we suggest that you stick to the core functions of the site and stay away from the boards.


On:

http://www.imdb.com/help/search?domai...

http://www.imdb.com/help/search?domai...

7) What I meant when I said, "They don't likely want a petition on the subject." was, simply, "They don't likely want a petition on the subject."

If you disagree and want to create one, that's up to you. I implied nothing other than what I said.

If your theory is that site staff is trolling their own message boards to make customers go away, go with it, pal. Good luck to you.

You realize, don't you, that the two of us who've replied are site users. We are not staff, in collusion with trolls. We, like you, don't like trolls/trolling activity. Further, we don't have a dog in the fight or anything at stake as far as dvd sales (nor does IMDb, by the way, for that matter).

But, I do wish you well. And hope that you don't lose sleep over an internet troll. Because, if you do, he wins.
7 years ago
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Stan Snell

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Your response still evades the issue, friend. Why not just say "We don't really want to help you, but we have to keep up appearances so here's a wad of policy quotes which do nothing to address the issue at hand"?

"[T]he system addresses that." " Abusing the report system results in their future reports being ignored." Yeah, no it really doesn't. The system routinely fails and allows trolls to attack, abuse, and delete other users, as evidenced by the mountain of complaints you receive routinely about this very issue. Your system doesn't work. It needs to be changed.

Furthermore, let's address this statement: "If your theory is that site staff is trolling their own message boards to make customers go away, go with it, pal. Good luck to you." Do you think that's completely implausible? It is not. This is my point. If this is what is in fact happening, then it explains the abuses currently taking place. At the very least the admins are turning a blind eye to the trolls on the RFS board and laughing up their sleeves about it, and whoever is doing so ought to be fired for not caring enough to do their jobs.

Also, the repeated line that "it's an automated system" doesn't fly. I'm not buying it. Somebody somewhere is reading at least a percentage, however small, of whatever is getting reported. I know what an automated report system looks like, because Craigslist has one and it functions very, very differently from IMDb. Craigslist's report system does not discriminate: you get the requisite number of user flags, and the offending posts go away. Whereas IMDb's system DOES discriminate: some posts get deleted, others do not. This means there *has* to be a human element, and therefore the system is not completely automated. I'm not stupid, dude. I can see the difference between an algorithm and a human user. There is a human moderator in the chain, and that human moderator is making discriminatory decisions which allow the trolls to sack the RFS board. Whoever is responsible should be fired, period. They're not earning their salary.

Now, fair enough- you claim to be a fellow user like the rest of us, you're just here to answer questions and be helpful, you can't really do anything about the situation, fine: I can't prove otherwise. But I'm not buying any of this.

The IMDb admins don't want to do the right thing by a group of over 70 Amazon customers who have been communicating via one of their boards for years. It's that simple. You can make all the arguments you like to the contrary, but that's what's actually happening here.

And thanks, I'm not losing any sleep over this. But I do think it's a ridiculous and childish way for a billion-dollar corporation to treat its customers.
7 years ago
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bluesmanSF, Champion

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I'll briefly take this up, one last time.

Yes, I believe it's "implausible" that a staffer is trolling on a board. Actually, I think it's a completely ridiculous thing to accuse.

The reason it's important to use the automated portion of the system is because it tracks reports. Both the reports against the "troll" and the accuracy of reports by the reporter. If you're always reporting him and when it's reviewed, you're found to be right, it improves your standing and starts progressive steps against the "troll." So, you're right, there is some review...that's not the point though.

Now, you're calling me a liar. So, who do you think, in my opinion, the troll and real problem user is?

The site's mission, by the way...and again, has nothing to do with selling stuff on Amazon. So, throw out the, "you're losing sales" (which I don't for a minute believe, anyway, and doubt they do) threat. It just makes you look a bit silly. You either want the damn video or not. The site gives you billions of details about films to assist you and Amazon in your consumer/retailer relationship. A few message board trolls don't really affect that. If you've found that you need to take the discussions somewhere else, you're still going to buy the dvd's where they're available and cheapest or most convenient. If you're taking your business somewhere else because of an internet troll, that's a sad, sad excuse.

Good luck.
7 years ago
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Stan Snell

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"Now, you're calling me a liar." Nope, not at all. Show me where I used the word "liar." Nowhere did I use that word, or even imply it. "Qui s’excuse, s’accuse"?

I am simply questioning the official policy that you are laying forth, and so far we've gone from "the report system is automated" to "So, you're right, there is some review." You are proving my claim for me, which is that there is a human element involved in the reporting system, and that human element has decided to side with the abusive users who have taken up residence on the RFS board.

You then state "...that's not the point though." Oh, but it is. It is the *entire* point. The review process is failing the regular users of the RFS board, and failing them abysmally. Someone somewhere has made a conscious decision to let the trolls have the board. That is unforgiveable, and completely unprofessional. Whoever is responsible should be fired immediately.

Furthermore, you are accusing me of trolling when in point of fact what you are demonstrating is that you are completely incapable of debating IMDb policy while maintaining a civil or professional demeanor. THAT's what is sad here. If users are not permitted to question the system, then the system is a failure.

I would thank you for your time, but you've shown such animosity and anger over a simple debate that I can't see what the point is. That's all this is, friend: it's a debate. You've given me cause to verify my suspicions, so thanks for that much at least; but what a sad day for a professional website when their liasons cannot be civil to their customers. Good luck with that.
7 years ago
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Jim Smith

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"Yes, I believe it's "implausible" that a staffer is trolling on a board. Actually, I think it's a completely ridiculous thing to accuse."

And yet one of the other known trolls just had a thread deleted where he had received a PM from the troll in question showing him the list of accounts on that board that post from the same ISP address. This is information that could have only come from someone connected to IMDB administration in some way. So, either the Discerningly_Tasty troll is someone with IMDB or someone with IMDB is connected to this person and sharing information which should not be shared or such information is somehow being shared with a third party for no justifiable reason and this third party has some kind of connection with the troll in question.
View previous…
2013-06-30T11:51:24+00:00
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Christian and proud

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What did this deleted thread say? I have been monitoring the board and I saw no such thing.

I very much doubt an IMDb moderator would be engaged in trolling the Religion and Faith board. It is a rather silly and paranoid leap of logic
2013-06-30T12:04:16+00:00
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Stan Snell

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Considering that there is a group of trolls on that board openly engaged in group reporting against other posters while simultaneously mocking and using hate speech against those they report, I'd say anything is possible.
2013-06-30T12:39:08+00:00
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Christian and proud

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I hardly see the connection between a group of users that you feel may be working cooperatively in a nefarious fashion and an IMDb employee engaging in malicious message board trolling
2013-06-30T12:46:23+00:00
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Christian and proud

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I am NOT a troll nor am I either of the users to claim.

Please stop undermining your claims by labelling all that do not necessarily agree with a 'troll'. I makes you look like confontational trouble makers and erodes the credibility of your complaint.
7 years ago
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Christian and proud

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The board really is a mess. In addition to what you pointed out, there is the user who spams hundreds of lewd and blasphemous poems, (though it appears the moderators have clamped down on this). There are also others that threaten to kill other users and ask others to kill themselves. Near every thread is heated confrontation or vicious personal attacks.

The entire board could stand for some decent administrative attention. Sort out the legitimate board members who wish to discuss theology and faith, and those that just want to cause trouble.
2013-06-30T11:53:46+00:00
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Stan Snell

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There's some guy over there who calls other users names like "queer-lover" and "stinking sodomite trash" if they object to his homophobic, hate-filled rants against the LGBT community, they need to do something about that guy. Thanks for pointing it out, C&P.
2013-06-30T12:18:40+00:00
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Stan Snell

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Here's a couple of excellent examples of the sort of hate-speech currently taking place routinely on that board:

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000108/n...

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000108/n...
7 years ago
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Jim Smith

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When DT shows up and starts posting as "Christian and Proud" it's obvious that this conversation is pointless.
2013-06-30T12:14:05+00:00
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Stan Snell

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I'm pretty sure that's somebody else.
2013-06-30T12:33:07+00:00
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Jim Smith

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Dt, ErJen...one troll is as bas as another.
2013-06-30T12:44:01+00:00
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Christian and proud

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The 2 links are the same thread, but I agree that the thread in question is needlessly provocative and off topic for the board. Thus it should definitely be removed.
7 years ago
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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I find these complaints about the Religion and Spirituality board very telling.

The only people who've 'left' are the arrogant, pompous, self-important users who spent their entire virtual existence dictating thought and opinion, and labelling other users stupid and moronic, simply for disagreeing with them.

Why visit a message board if debate about controversial issues is going to make you upset and angry? It must be a power thing.

The threads that have been created here say it all. What purpose can they possibly serve? If IMDB administrators decide to investigate, which I hope they do, what do you think is going to happen? What do you expect them to find? What action do you expect them to take? Once gain, you're trying to control other people.

The board has never been so amicable, now your small clique has left, despite being a balanced mix of theists and atheists, left wingers and right wingers, blacks and whites.

If IMDB does do a thorough investigation of that board and its recent history, all they'll find are threads by Brandon, Dork and Cinemachinery patronising other users, admonishing, gloating, belittling, name calling, threatening, discussing how they're going to rid the board of users....simply because they either believe in God or don't subscribe to their warped misanthropic view of the world.

And now, after supposedly finding another place to go and discuss how wrong everyone is, you feel the need to control and report and censor those you've left behind.

If evidence was needed as to how you conducted yourselves while posting on the Religion and Spirituality board, the two threads you've created on Get Satisfaction would be exhibits A and B.
2013-07-01T00:31:31+00:00
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Stan Snell

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Actually, if the admins DO investigate- and I sincerely hope they do- they will find concrete evidence of the abuses being perpetrated by the users currently still frequenting the board. Those of us who you wish to attack are long gone, so there's nothing you can actually do to us. What are you going to do, ban us? We've left of our own free will.. But hey- enjoy. Have fun with that. You have no power over us.
2013-07-01T00:49:30+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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Nice. Playing the victim card. Well, let's leave it there then. IMDB will see for themselves who's the victim and who's the perpetrator.

If anyone wants to see who's been abusing the report abuse function they need only look at this pic:

http://i41.tinypic.com/2w1rxpw.jpg
2013-07-01T00:52:23+00:00
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Stan Snell

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Of course "IMDB will see for themselves who's the victim and who's the perpetrator," as evidenced by the massive number of users who have vacated the RFS board. You can play the fool all you like, but IP addresses don't lie. We have close to 75 unique users logging into our private board, all of whom left RFS because of abusive users like yourself. But hey- good luck convincing the admins otherwise. Really. You're going to have a rough go of it.
2013-07-01T01:54:41+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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Close to 75? Why can't you give an exact figure?

Where's the evidence, even if your figures are correct, that none of these users are also using IMDB?

Why don't you let us see this site? Is it because you and your 3/4 friends are using it to coordinate your abuse reporting on IMDB?
2013-07-01T02:47:20+00:00
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Stan Snell

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"Why don't you let us see this site?" Dream on, dude.
7 years ago
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Christian and proud

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I don't entirely agree, as there is a definite troll element still on the board, causing upset and insult on wide scale, but after the revelation one of the troublemakers has 14 accounts, this can be more easily explained now.
View previous…
2013-07-01T02:31:54+00:00
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Christian and proud

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there is definitely some flailing about on this thread of late but it is not HCGS doing the flailing. I have rarely seen somebody on the internet so thorughly beaten and defeated as you have been on this thread, Stan/Brandon/Chucklez/Waylon.

Well I have said my piece and am not going to waste further time on a stubborn and not overly bright troll
2013-07-01T02:32:30+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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If my explanations regarding the links and screencap that I've provided aren't true, please feel free to provide your own.
2013-07-01T02:43:52+00:00
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Stan Snell

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Your behavior in this thread is all the evidence I need, thanks.
2013-07-01T02:48:52+00:00
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Christian and proud

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YOUR behavior in this thread is all the evidence I and the moderators need, thanks.
2013-07-01T02:49:58+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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Well, I'm pretty confident I've thwarted your trolling, Brandon. The evidence is there for all to see. If I got a little upset, I'm sure the shock of your audacity will excuse me.
7 years ago
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Jim Smith

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It's funny that there are complaints about a guy having 14 accounts when he made it clear he was using those accounts to test the reporting system. It's even funnier when you realize one of the people complaining is known to have over 300 accounts that he has used to troll dozens of boards for years.
View previous…
2013-07-01T08:19:54+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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What were your suspicions? That I wouldn't be prepared to spend the day looking for an individual post make a few weeks ago, that may even have been deleted now?

If you're not the same user then one of you really likes apeing the other's posting style.
2013-07-01T08:40:39+00:00
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Jim Smith

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You know, you should probably give up this faux-detective act. You're not very good at it.
2013-07-01T09:25:14+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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You're right. I can't prove my claims about your sock puppetry here, just as I never could on the Religion board, until you posted that thread. I'll leave IMDB administration to work it out with all the tools at their disposal. If I'm wrong, so be it. What's most important is that they see what you're up to with this thread and what's been going on on the Religion and Spirituality board.
2013-07-01T12:38:35+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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I decided to look for evidence of Brandon's quota increase, against my better judgement. However, it looks like it's either buried within the pages of IMDB, or it's been deleted, possibly when he had his history wiped, as he mentions in this thread:

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000108/n...
2013-07-01T12:42:39+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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Also, during my search, I found the following admission of using sock puppets by Waylonsguitar/Brandon1965, the user who has 14 accounts, which he apparently only uses to test the system:

http://www.imdb.com/board/bd0000108/n...
7 years ago
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Christian and proud

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Well, I can see about 25 accounts there with the name He Cant [something], of which only a few still exist. The rest seemed to have either been banned or deleted by the user. Though it does not paint a pretty picture for HCGS, it is by no means even a fraction of 300. In fact, it makes him no worse or better than waylonguitar/Stan Snell
2013-07-01T09:33:43+00:00
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He_Cant_Get_Satisfaction

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I had one account deleted a while back. Since I can't prove anything, the reason for the deletion is irrelevant. Most of those other He_Cant accounts are not mine. It seems some users think it's funny to copy my name and pretend to be me, with one particular user thinking it was hilarious to 'cyber squat' as many He_Can't usernames as he could think of, so I couldn't use them myself.

There are some funny people on IMDB!
2013-07-01T10:08:23+00:00
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Christian and proud

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Well that explains that then. It seems implausible that you would create all those accounts only to then delete them. That would be the action of a mad man. Your theory makes far more sense.

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