Grid-view image order

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  • Updated 12 years ago
This is related-to but not really addressed in the topic "How is the order of presentation set". Another post stated that image filenames are sorted lexicographically (meaning as they'd be if you click by name on the file explorer). However in this synth (http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=E...) the uploaded files were named so that the head position moved gradually from 10 oclock counterclockwise (from above) to 2 oclock in roughly even intervals. The grid view of the images shows them in a substantially different order.
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Bill Storage

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Posted 12 years ago

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Joshua Podolak, Employee

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I don't know where the other post is, but 2D mode is not stored in lexicographic order. The order in 2D is such that if you press , it goes from one to the next. You can see the images in lexicographic order if you hit the "." key.
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Bill Storage

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Hi Joshua. Thanks for the prompt reply. The other post, containing a reply from Blaise Aguera y Arcas, was entitled "How can I preorder photos and show in my order?".

The "." key tool is great for moving between images in their logical order. As author, I'd still like the ability to define the order in which images appear to viewers in 2D (grid) mode. Given that the button exists to show viewers this view (2D view has value), it would seem to make sense that the synth author should be able to control that view (even if merely by renaming files to control their view order), no?
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Joshua Podolak, Employee

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Hi Bill.
The logic behind our 2D mode was to show the various connected components in the synth. Since the tour goes through all the images in the first "3D group" before going to the images in the second "3D group", we decided to use tour order in 2D.

There definetly is merit in showing the images in load order (which would allow some manner of user control), and we actually implemented it that way previously (which may be why Blaise put that post up). Ultimately however we made the decision to promote extra clarity over user-control.

We are working on allowing increased user-control (allow people to specify position in 2D, tours, neighbors, etc).

Joshua.
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ravydavy

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joshua, i upload a 100% synthy set, so i don't have a "2nd. 3d group", i want the photos to 'slideshow' in the order i presented them to photosynth.
are you saying i can't do this? (yet).
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Joshua Podolak, Employee

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Correct.

The algorithm we use to choose the order of the images (and the order of the display in 2D) tries to "make nice transitions". Assume that a novice is making a photosynth. He/She will will taking pictures left and right trying to capture the scene. If we simply showed the images in the order they were taken, rapidly pressing on "space" (most common viewing technique) will cause the camera to jump all over the place. Instead, we try to order the images in some coherent fashion (i.e. order them from left to right). we are aware that exerienced people (or those who really want to generate a very specific synth) are careful in their picture taking and would prefer their own ordering of the photos, but we hoped that the ability to press '.' would be enough for now.

We are working on allowing people to edit various properties of a photosynth, and the "tour" is one of the those targeted.
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ravydavy

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ok, i'll let you all get on with it then, look forward to seeing the results asap.
the '.' command doesn't do anything for me, photosynth has already mixed up my photos, so i just get the next frame in the photosynth sequence, i would like to keep the sequence i load 'as is'.
thanks again.
dave.
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Nathanael Lawrence

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I don't mean to be repetitive and redundant here but it seems some clarification is called for.

Dave, the period/full-stop key (on an American keyboard anyway) takes you forward through photos in a different sequence than the spacebar. The spacebar uses Photosynth's own order based on what it deems to be the most logical movement spatially. The full-stop key, on the other hand, takes you through the photos in the order of filename (0 - 9 and a - z). In that sense, you could rename your photos to the order that you want to present them to Photosynth (you could double check this by sorting them by name in Windows Explorer and making sure that they appear in the order you wish) and use the full-stop key to step through them in the order you intend (although renaming several hundred photos would certainly be tedious). Also, the comma key serves to move in reverse lexicographic order which is different from the 'z' key which serves as a simple 'back' key.

Joshua, it seems like you certainly understood what he was asking for because you brought up the authorship/"user control" tools that you guys are working on. The next post, though, is not necessarily right. The order that someone places the photos into the synther may, in fact, be a third order altogether - different from both filename order and Photosynth's spatial order, so unless Dave and the rest of us are willing to manually rename all those photos, we still don't have an easy way of stepping through the images in our order once they get online.

I'm basically waiting for a drag and drop control within whatever interface is finally used to arrange the photos, whether that be in the synther loader or the viewer online after the fact as an edit control. It is something of a pain, even now when the order that the images are presented to the synther can affect the synth results, to be loading photos from several different folders and remember after adding several folders that there is a group in another folder that would really serve well as a transition between two of the earlier groups. At this point in time, you would have to delete a bunch of photos out of your synther window just to add that transitional group and then add the later groups again. I'm not saying that this is 100% necessary step as Photosynth does manage to make good connections regardless of the order that it is given photos in, but in some cases it does seem that successes increase when the image order includes overlap between consecutive photos.
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ravydavy

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hi nathanael,
i think you have hit the nail on the head with this one, and thank you for your input, myself and other posters have been looking for a solution to this problem, basically if we have a trail through a forest and take a sequence of photos along the trail, then it is only of value in the order of the sequence in which the photos were taken on the movement through the trail.
in my case, i have a sequence of returning troops moving through a fixed point of view. at present, if i run the slideshow, it uses the photosynth "best match" sequence, in practice this means that i have backwards motion etc.
i will try, as you suggest, using the '.' method, starting at the start, i can always put a note beside the synth with instructions, if it works.
as already stated, i am happy enough that the photosynth crew are working on this, and i look forward to a more 'programable' photosynth.
once you get into it, it's magic!!!
dave.
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ravydavy

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hi nathanael,
yes, it works, find the first photo and '.' through the sequence.
thanks again....
dave.