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Paul Greeve November 13, 2014 21:26

Want to See How Broken the TFP Extern Sync Algorithm is? Then Look Here.

Here is a screen shot of a series of MIDI recordings that I took from Logic trying to record a simple quarter note beat but starting at each 16th interval from the start of the song.

The lowest note started at the start or the 0th beat, the next higher not was started at the first sixteen beat, the next higher note the second beat and so on for a 16 notes.

Note: I had the Time Delay set to 0.

What you should see is a nice clean ramp of 4 quarter notes, moving over one beat to the right, as the notes get higher. Instead you get the results shown below:



The above is for the standard 1/16 Time Division, if I was to do this for 1⁄4, 1⁄8 and 1/32 divisions I would have got just as funky results but different patterns.

Come on M-Audio. How much proof do you need?

I was prompted to all of this by watching the Official Youtube Tutorial on Using the TFP with Logic. In that it said to use Mackie to sync the TFP. So I wondered if it would fox the problem because the guy in the video showed how great the TFP was at lining up with Logics metronome. I gather this is about all they ever did when testing external sync.
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  • Paul Greeve November 13, 2014 21:33
    This is what it should have looked like:



    Not much difference really is there?
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  • Jason Gray November 17, 2014 15:42
    If they happen to be looking in I am almost ready to give up on TFP and get a refund, I would prefer not too as I like this in theory, pity its not functional as described, I too can confirm all of the above, with sonar, studio one2,Ableton,Reaper and a couple more Daws i have laying around, I have tested so I can rule the sync issue out in relation to any Of the Daws I mention, and it being anything to do with the end user, going to give this a week more maybe two, but if we don't get any hint its being fixed etc i am jumping to akai MPC renaissance, if I can afford, but sadly it kills my digital djing i am due to get new equipment after I sold my pioneer DDJSX at a great loss so I could get the TFP, so I am not to happy at Present!.
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    • Paul Greeve November 27, 2014 19:49
      Ha! Now I see the connection with AIR. So don't expect their support or product development to be much better than what we've seen to date with the TFP hardware and software. No I am really glad I jumped ship.
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    • Joelg November 28, 2014 15:44
      What oddly saddens me is I didn't realize they owned Denon, I always used to like Denon receivers.

      I'd have to guess that most of the technical problems and delayed driver releases are due to either cutting of staff or outsourcing development.

      Joel
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  • Paul Greeve November 17, 2014 16:13
    Seriously, though the above looks really bad, the fix should at most take a firmware developer conversant with the TFP code a couple of of hours at most to fix.

    God knows why M-Audio hasn't got that fix out to us weeks ago. If they have a good reason they should tell us. They are losing their most ardent customers by delaying.
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  • Ben Roy November 17, 2014 23:53
    exactly what I see on various DAWS and even in my hardware recordings. Good post. Please fix M-audio, it's the sole purpose of this device! (and please don't delete my post again, thank you)
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  • Paul Greeve November 18, 2014 00:06
    It a shame really. Since purchasing the TFP there have been two main issues for me:

    1) The sync and the shear amount of time I have wasted on trying to get it resolved

    2) The lack of multitimbral support out of the box (and no I don't consider having multiple instance of Arsenal in a DAW Multitimbral and configuring the TFP's 64 Pads to manage different MIDI channels... well... I've lost interest in doing that as well.

    I am sorry M-Audio but my TFP is in its box and will headed back to the store in two hours.

    I will upgrade to NI's Machine – reading the manuals last night has convinced me that it is the product I should have bought in the first place. The TFP is its poor, poor, poor cousin and then with M-Audio compete lack of customer care and service and now a huge 30% price drop in under 6 months of its release, makes me wonder if M-Audio feels it will be easer to give up on the TFP as a bad joke and dump the existing stock and then get out of this area of the business.

    That price drop is a major snub for us few that were trying to prompt the M-Audio product.

    I want to make music but not though the sound of me head hitting against a concert wall.
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    • Paul Greeve November 27, 2014 12:53
      I'm glad of the protection that Australian consumer law gave me. My store had to refund because the product does not comply with its advertised capabilities.

      I think that they have pull all of the TFPs from sale , until there is a fix. Selling with this flaw could be unlawful, no matter what to price. And they know now that they would have no choice but refund the product anytime after sale, if the customer found the flaw and wished to return it.

      I've upgraded to NI Maschine and bar a few quirks of its own, it's light years ahead of the TFP. And we just got the 2.2 upgrade that adds ARPs and Chords to the Pads.

      Real shame because I still feel that the TFP was a great sequencer. It's useless for anyone wanting to use it as s slave right now but that should have been fixed overnight with a emergency firmware release. Yet M-Audio is still silent and no firmware has been provided months after the TFP's initial release.

      Further, M-Audio should have been providing an aggressive upgrade cycle for the firmware and software in any case, if they are really serious about the TFP.

      Looks like, instead of a landmark upgraded to the famous Trigger Finger, they have created a lacklustre product that no amount of 'Pro' in the name will fix.

      There still time to avoid the total train wreck and embarrassement that this will become but some how I get the feeling M-Audio just doesn't care.
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    • Henrik Krog Andersen November 27, 2014 20:06
      I am now filing a complaint at my local store about this also. by Danish law, we have a 2 year waranty if the product from the factory/developer has a flaw. Which is obviously has..
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  • Jason Gray November 27, 2014 13:41
    Have had mine since day one of its release more or less, so almost 3 months waiting on support requests that did not happen, so the time can be an issue in such cases, but its no fault of my own that I have had to give m-audio time to respond and come up with a suitable fix. And for myself to compile the facts and prove it is no user error as can tend to be forced on us, even though we know our stuff, So Friday is the date I switch to a NI Maschine studio.

    My regular store is quite understanding so far that's why I use DJ kit in the UK, just a pity M-audio have done it again and caused these uncomfortable communications with my store, but nothing new to the masses it seems oh so common these days to release hardware and software combos that just have not been thoroughly tested, we are used as guinea pigs, which is not so bad if its a company that is quick to respond and at least tells us what is what instead of leaving us lost in frustration. good luck to those who have the consumer laws on your side, read it well.

    although what has narked me is that now I have an xmas with no denon dj setup I was just about to buy to repalce my pioneer DDJSX I sold to get the TFP, and now that I have to splash out on a maschine studio I will have a sad xmas without djing and great parties, well thank you very much m-audio!! ?.

    Although I thank dan etc here for doing his best to help.
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    Paul Greeve November 27, 2014 17:56
    No good stories have yet been posted here regarding the TFP.

    No amount of live DJ videos are going to fix this. Instead of wasting their money on Marketing the problem away, they should be diverting those funds to fixing the TFP.

    I'd love to see that DJ in the recent promo video, trying to perform live, with a DAW acting as the master clock.

    Shame about your equipment. If I was live DJing I would have been even more distressed.

    Cool that you getting Studio. I'm happy with the Mk. 2, it fits my limited space and even more limited budget. But I would love it to have been otherwise. But then I would never had purchased the TFP. And missed out on all the 'fun' of owning one.

    See you in the NI forums.
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  • dobbs November 28, 2014 01:12
    skim through for sync issues and more from the get-go! lacking updates! same Dan! same InDesign! It's actually kind of funny in a sad way...

    http://community.akaipro.com/akai_pro...

    http://community.akaipro.com/akai_pro...
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  • Paul Greeve November 28, 2014 01:30
    I'm starting to wonder if the sync and low level functions have been baked into a low level control processor that can't be reprogrammed via a firmware update.

    Just a guess on my part, but if that's the case InMusic is really stuck. I think the Australian wide supplier of the TFP is now very angry with M-Audio (InMusic) and may have pulled the TFPs from sale, given that under Australian consumer law it would be very risky to continue to sell a product with a known defeat such as the TFP currently has out of the box.

    By the way, I posted the following against the two threads that Nik linked to above:

    You guys are in the same boat as the Trigger Finger Pro owners (of which I was once but no longer) the product is unable to sync as a slave.

    Looks like M-Audio can't fix it but given that I see Dan is also a responder for AKAI products on this forum, as he was on the M-Audio support forum (which is running on the same forum engine by the way).

    I expect that you are all being overseen by the actual owners of these brands http://inmusicbrands.com and that InMusic appears to have a very low priority when it comes to customers and the problems and desires.

    Don't expect much in the way of support – we got none on the TFP site, though my heart goes out to Dan because he willing to help when he is allowed to but banned from being able to report anything substantive to these forums.

    Have a look at my post on the M-Audio forum: http://community.m-audio.com/m-audio/...

    Look familiar?
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  • Jason Gray December 02, 2014 17:14
    I know akia can be really slow on support and terrible with repairs times
    and now I am told they own denon. Numark and Novation also had so many products that have been hyped and then pushed to the whey side, my guess is
    If you ask me its probably one Shady company buying up all and then bleeding the poor dry with quality of support and products. Not all, but their is stuff like this going on all around.

    In the UK we have Pc world and curry's who make all these claims, then sell you laptops and wont self you parts or even include correct hardware serials etc or a hard copy of windows instead we have to pay to fix them over their counter and to do botch up jobs, then you find out in fact they are not this independent company but just a minute part of a bigger picture over Europe, so much more shade to this story, but Point is we are fooled and lied too or withheld details that may be important to making a decisions in buying, because behind the scenes they scheme and call it business, when more often than not its daylight robbery, do we really know the quality of the parts in the things we buy and the true costs and Expense to them, the government don't care as long as they are made money, their should be tighter laws all round companies should have to state if they have bought out other companies on the products, yet they make out like they are independent companies so you think you have a competitive market, when these days is their such thing. do we really have choices, one day it will be plane crazy, just like them scifi films where advertising has gone bad. It can only go that way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its only the poor that loose out one way or another.
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