I’m annoyed, frustrated, confused

How do you disable tabs-on-top in TB 11? [ANSWER: use Rise of the Tools add-on]

TB 11 beta, Win7 Home Premium.

The latest beta has imposed tabs-on-top, and there seems to be no way to disable this.

Among other things, as a result of TOT, my mail toolbar gets hidden when viewing a message, thereby disrupting my work-flow. For example, I can't now 1-click to print a message (this may seem a trivial example, but it matters to me).

I thought TB was meant to bend to my will ... not for me to bend to TB's developers' whims
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  • You can hide the tab bar if there is only one tab. In about:config, toggle this setting:
    mail.tabs.autoHide
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  • Hi guys,

    I am really shocked. The great TB movement has come to fretting about letting people have a choice of their own wisdom at all. This is really not what made TB the great alternative that is is (was?). Please remember: TB is about 'Can Do', not about silly workarounds, lack of bugfixes, UI dictatorship. We know all of that from Outlook and we hate it. The whole point of taking up with some of TB drawbacks is about having control. The less control users have, the more they will hate TB. I am sooo frustrated....
    SCNR - this had to vent just now.
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  • I’m seriously angry
    Just upgraded to Thunderbird 11. Good grief, you've moved the tabs to the top! But there does not appear to be an option for us to put them back where we want them, just above the window to which they refer. Now I have to move the mouse further to swap tabs. How is this better when it takes more time and effort. Why do you assume we want it to follow Microsoft? Surely we are using Mozilla because we are not happy with Microsoft.
    Different is not the same as better. Please stop changing things for its own sake.

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Bring the tabs back down.
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  • I’m more than a little peeved
    Cannot believe this. I deeply dislike tabs above the menubar, it's just the wrong place for them. On Firefox if you don't like it you can change it. Not, seemingly, on Thunderbird.

    If I want that sort of compulsion I'll go and buy Microsoft or Apple. I'm not one to lose my cool in postings but this really does annoy me. Bad decision, I'm afraid.

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Compulsory tabs above menu considered hateful.
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  • Solved - hide/disable tabs completely! Use Quickfolders addon instead. Thunderbird is much better without tabs IMO.
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  • I agree with the above - I find tabs pretty useless in TB.

    However, I also agree that a) there is something totally unintuitive about top tabs (it's why I don't use Chrome but persist with Firefox) and b) it seems against the ethos of Mozilla to force this change without an option.

    Just my 2d's worth.
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  • I’m seriously p***** off
    Just read all through the bug report. That was hard work. It seems to use english words, but not in a sequence that makes any sense. The result is that I'm just more annoyed.

    It seems that when the tabs moved to the top, the menu or buttons can change according to the tab selected. I did not notice that, as I reverted to v10 straight away. Changing menus will only be more confusing.

    All I want is a simple email client. Receive emails, read them, delete, print, move to folders, reply, etc. I cannot see why it needs to get complicated. Let us configure a toolbar with whatever icons we wish, then leave it there for all tabs. I can't see this being difficult for any user.

    There is also mention of not having "x in tab". Surely this is the way to close tabs, so does this mean once a tab is opened it is fixed for ever? Perhaps more explanation is required.

    It seems the developers are heading off somewhere not all of us wish to go. Just because you can do stuff, doesn't mean it is a good idea. If you wish to develop a more complicated program to add calendars and other stuff, why not separate this from a basic email client for those of us who just need that.

    If the tabs have to stay on top, I will not upgrade, ever. When v10 is no longer supported, I can keep it until it stops working, then look elsewhere. I have encouraged two sisters-in-law to use Thunderbird, one is an hour away, the other over two hours away. It is not possible for me to go visit to fix these issues after an auto upgrade if they cannot cope. This is causing a lot of grief.

    I tried to add comments to the bug report, but it requires me to log in. Then I find my login won't work because I need a separate account for bug reports, separate from the two already set up for Thunderbird and Firefox. Why can't just one do for the lot?
    • There is also mention of not having "x in tab". Surely this is the way to close tabs, so does this mean once a tab is opened it is fixed for ever?

      No, the "x" stands for "any feature" such as "compose in a tab" or "address book in a tab" etc. One proposal might be to allow the user to select tabs below the toolbar, but to avoid that the developers have to consider that case for any "x in a tab" feature to disallow those in this case. That's not about not allowing a tab to be closed.
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  • I’m annoyed
    Downloaded Thunderbird 11.0 yesterday, and really hated the tabs on top. It might work for some people, but not for me. Have uninstalled it and reinstalled my prior version 10.0.2. I've been using TB for years now, but this is the first time I've ever reverted to an earlier version.
    • view 3 more comments
    • And Quickfolders can be found at:

      https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thun...

      I find it helpful, although it is not necessary to use it.
    • And if you use the "Conversations" feature, a tab will still open for that, and then all will disappear when that is closed.
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  • I’m disappointed
    As a Mac user, it's unfortunate to see UI decisions regarding Thunderbird are (seemingly) made from the perspective that all users run Windows.

    Personally, I can't stand tabs on top and did give the Rise of the Tools add-on mentioned in another comment a go, but things still didn't look *quite* right (OS X 10.7.3 + TB11). I'll play with it some more on a development machine to see if it's simply a matter of tweaking things a bit more after enabling it.

    (EDIT: I see that rsjtdrjgfuzkfg had already identified the issue I'm having with it. Thanks! I'm looking forward to that update: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thun...)

    In the end, it appears as if based on the article posted at the Breaking the Egg UI blog and what I'm reading here, I'll be stuck on TB 10 for quite some time, so I was glad to read of the ESR channel that'll enable me to get security patches without the poor UI -- though I do realize that will go away some day too.

    Thankfully the developers of Firefox have yet to make the same decision to lock me into the Google-Chromification of my browser.
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  • Just installed Rise of the Tools. Looks fine under Mac OS with the default skin. Well done rsjtdrjgfuzkfg. Let's just hope the devs don't break it in their ceaseless quests for personal (but not anyone else's) nirvana.
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  • Really - I have to join yet another site with yet another username and password? All I want is to get rid of the tab at the top. O'wise I want to revert to version 10 - really don't like extra row at the top when I only ever have one window open. Don't want to be able to search in my mail client using bing and yahoo - never use them!

    I track 4 different email accounts in Thunderbird and don't want any more 'stuff'' on the screen than necessary. I still use the classic layout because it works!!!

    Thanks,
    Katherine

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Remove the tab or revert back to version 10.
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  • 1
    I know that having the toolbar below the tabs is all the rage -- Firefox did that, but at least there's the option of having the tabs below the toolbars the way it used to be, and that's what I prefer. Suddenly, today, Thunderbird updated itself to v. 11 and now I have the toolbar below the tabs which I don't care for. I can't find a way to switch it back. Is there a way? If not there ought to be.

    Thank you.

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    How do I get the toolbar to be above the tabs the way it was?.
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  • What is happening right now? The developers/designers/decision-makers seem to live in their own world without contact to our world. In the last 9 months they killed TB as we know (knew) it. Tabs on Top without option is just the next step. If they go on like that, the next 9 months will be horrible.
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  • I’m irritated
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    Just adding my voice as another user who is irritated about the UI change. While I am quite comfortable using extensions, I should not need an extension to do this. Please reconsider your decision.
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  • The point of tabs is to be able to run multiple windows simultaneously while allowing easy switching from one to the other. In a browser, there is an obvious case for doing so. This is less the case in an email client (though it would make more sense if you could open a fresh tab from the tab bar, or drag and drop from a folder on to a tab). As it stands, TB tabs is a half-built, half-properly-integrated, product, a bit like Lightning. So, like Lightning, it should be optional.

    Secondly, if you are going to have tabs, it is entirely illogical to have them above a toolbar. Tabs should appear contiguous with the page they are tabbing. This is my gripe with Google Chrome, and no-one in the Googleplex is listening.Will Mozilla Labs lend a friendly ear, I wonder?
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  • Run that by me again…

    You want to see mail tools when you're in the calendar? You want to see calendar tools when you're in the mail? Where would address book tools fit in when the address book's on a tab?

    It's entirely logical for an appropriate toolbar to appear in context. In this model, that's inside a tab.

    Menus are a different argument. ;)
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  • My goodness you sound angry.

    I agree with you that context-sensitive toolbars are a good reason for having tabbed apps such as Lightning and Tasks.

    However, when I hit 'Address Book' it does not open a new tab. Again, it might make more sense if it did, and had its own context-sensitive toolbar. Which version of TB are you running? Are you able to open Address Book in a tab?
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    • No need for a pic: by 'contiguous' I mean simply a tab connected directly to the content without an intervening toolbar. But I think on that area we have already agreed to differ!
    • Wrt address book in a tab, there's an add-on for this for the time being.
      https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thun...
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  • I’m frustrated
    The subject pretty much says it all. I would like to have my toolbar fixed above the tabs. You say that Thunderbird can be customized any way I like. So how do I put it back to looking the way I like?

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    How do I put the tabs back below the toolbar?.
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  • I’m frustrated
    I prefer my tabs below the tool bars, right above the main display panes. They are moveable in Firefox and I would like to relocate them in Thunderbird. The default location , well away from what they relate to, is to my mind a backward step.
    How can I put them back where they should be?

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Change location of tabs..
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  • I’m undecided
    here is another add-on that worked wonders was in answer to my question

    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thun...

    and it works....so far, see what happens when they up-date again :-(
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  • I’m disconcerted
    I just updated my Thunderbird to the newest version (11), but I don't care for the toolbars below the tabs. How can I change the layout back to the previous way (toolbars above the tabs)?

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    moving toolbars above tabs.
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  • I’m thankful
    Look at my reply right above you question there is an add-on that fixes that problem

    or here is the link....if does not work look at my note above
    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thun...

    guess there are several ways....but this worked for me
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  • I’m still disappointed
    I've downloaded the Rise of the Tools add-on, which works great. (Thank you!) However, that only moves the default toolbar; any other toolbars (a custom one I added, the QuickFolders toolbar) still only show under the tabs.

    This is not a situation I'm happy with. I find it irritating to have to switch back to the main tab from my calendar in order to select a folder on the QuickFolders toolbar.

    While I understand that the developers think this is a great feature, it should be optional, like in Firefox. (And, no, I do not have tabs on top in Firefox, either.)
    • Try this link and click on the 'here' link within the content
      quote "Download the version you want from here" unquote
      - you can then get to access and download any version.
      http://kb.mozillazine.org/Go_back_to_...

      perhaps this maybe preferable
    • I wrote Rise of the Tools that way, to still be able to benefit from the new features; there is some sense in having the possibility of a toolbar within each tab type. As the main toolbar is assumed to be always visible by most add-ons currently, it is a good idea to move it. However, I left the custom toolbar box where it was placed by TB's developers, as not doing so would break the new concept completely. This makes it possible to use both the new concept (with custom toolbars where you put mail-specific stuff) and a always-visible toolbar.

      A newly added toolbar by an add-on could get placed on another position by the add-on itself, even without a workaround like Rise of the Tools. So you might want to contact the developer of the add-on providing the toolbar you want and ask him for a preference to display the toolbar on top.
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  • I’m frustrated
    Mozilla Thunderbird 11is forcing the tabs to be on top. I like them on the bottom, where is the option to put the tabs where " I " want them to be??

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    Cant seem to put tabs back on bottom Thunderbird 11.
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  • I’m confident
    look up the thread to one of my posts from a week ago. And there are others also, but mine is a add-on.....couple of registry edits......

    But look up the thread

    Hal
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  • I'm so fed up with developers 'fixing' what isn't broken and disrupting my workflow while I either learn to conform to their new (usually counter-intuitive) vision of how I should work, or I find a way to go back to working with the familiar, efficient interface.

    I don't have time or patience to relearn an interface just because some developer who is trying to justify his/her paycheck decides "hey, wouldn't this be cool?" every six weeks or so.

    At least have the decency to make these 'amusing' or 'cool' changes optional so we grownups can continue to get our work done with minimal interruption.
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  • My original complaint from yesterday was supposedly merged into this thread, but I don't see it now. Oh well.

    Mostly I was upset about not having an option to make the tab bar go away when there's only one tab open, which is the case for me 99.9% of the time. I don't open e-mails in tabs generally, I use the message pane. The blog post referenced early in the thread talks about how the tabs make things like Lightning super awesome. I don't know what Lightning is. I don't use it, I don't want it. Thunderbird is my MAIL program.

    Somebody else early on referenced changing the mail.tabs.autohide setting in the config editor. Thank you! Just what I wanted. I shouldn't have to dig into the config editor to do that. Firefox gives you an easy to find option to do the same. It seems the Firefox devs understand that users don't like new "features" shoved down their throats while the Thunderbird devs aren't getting the message.

    The blog post also promises that everything is moving to tabs eventually, like the address book, and message composing. I guess that sounds nice. I'll probably download that Rise of the Tools add-on right away when that happens so I can kill tabs-on-top, though. It's ridiculous that we have to install add-ons just to keep features/options that have been removed by the Thunderbird devs.
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  • I’m thrilled
    Thanks for the heads up on 'rise of the tools' - just downloaded and installed and the result was IMMEDIATE.
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  • I will not add the 'rise of the tools' add-on. This is like sticking an elastoplast onto it. I want them to fix the problem, not expect users to add a workaround.
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  • I agree with you users should not have to use a third part software to get what they want out of a product.. Unfortunately companies now have the attitude:
    "this is our product, don't like it , don't use it!"

    I really don't understand this, all I want to do is set it up how it is convenient for ME.
    how I like it.

    I'm sure somebody will say go write your own mail client.....
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  • And it gets even more ludicrous when you watch the video about how Mozilla responds to its users because it is non-profit.

    So, Mozilla, when do you plan to start actually doing that?
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