Thunderbird 16 not responding when moving message to a folder SOLVED System Mechanic's AcceleWrite

Thunderbird 16 dies temporarily when I move a message from my Inbox to a folder. All these are kept in my Local folder. It can freeze for up to about 20 seconds. Anybody know a solution?
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  • How many messages are in your local folder?
    And what antivirus software do you use?
    Does that software exclude TBird profile from being scanned?
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  • Hi Wayne, my local folder is over 2 GB with thousands of messages including attachments. It is located in a work folder on my C drive. I use the latest Norton Internet Security.

    The problem is on a new computer I just started using yesterday as well as my old computer from which I migrated all my files. It also happens on one other machine in my office but not on others.

    How do I exclude TBird profile from being scanned? Norton seems to be getting harder to go behind the scenes.

    Thanks,
    Bob
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  • 1. start your computer in safe mode http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wi...

    if problem goes away then blame AV or something outside thunderbrd.

    2. if problem persists, start TB in safe mode http://support.mozillamessaging.com/e...

    if problem goes away then blame an addon.

    3. if problem remains, then use a message archive, so that size of the folder you are moving messages to is greatlly reduced https://support.mozillamessaging.com/...

    please telll us your resullts
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  • Update: it is happening on four computers all using TB 16.0.1. One of them is a Win XP machine (which I just retired from service last week), the others Win 7. One of the Win 7 machines uses Trend Micro the others Norton AV. We don't have add-ons installed. We have System Mechanic installed with all automatic functions disabled. The problem occurs whether sliding messages from the Inbox to small or large folders, including some with and some without subsidiary folders. All message folders including the Inbox are stored in the Local Folders directory.

    When the delay occurs, if I left click on the blue bar at the top it then and only then tells me that TB is "(Not Responding)" but in seconds that disappears and the message is transferred to the desired folder.

    What I have noticed though is that I have all machines set to look for new messages every one minute. If a message is being received on that check, any attempt to move another message during that process fails until the incoming appears in the Inbox. The incoming can actually interrupt the moving of another message even while the message is being slid across (ie left mouse button down, grabbing and moving).

    I'm not a software developer but now my guess is that when TB 16 looks for new messages it is locking up much of its resources or simply freezing them to exclude any other functions being performed at the same time.

    Am I on the right track?
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  • Several issues here as I see it.

    1 Setting mail retrieval to 1 minute is not a viable long term situation. Unless your connected to your own personal mail server with fibre, it is unlikely that anything good will ever occur with timings set below 10 minutes. (Live makes it a break of their terms of service to even try on less that 15 minute timing and simply drop connections that breach their terms)

    If you want you mail when it arrives on the server, get a good IMAP mail server and it will push new mail to you. Email is not instant messaging. Nor is it equivalent to SMS.

    2. Disable all the flash stuff that System mechanic installs. CCleaner manages to delete thunderbirds settings, so Given that this software makes claims of Crud removal and Program accelerator technology it is highly likely that it makes a mess of something as well. It certainly will not hurt to try. Personally I know nothing of it. It could be a water tap for all I knew before I Googled it 10 minutes ago.

    3. If the 4 PCs you mention are all on and hitting the server every 25 Seconds (1 minute /4) that would be less than helpful.

    4 Receiving mail requires the folder it is to go into to be locked. Always has. Moving mail also requires the folder to be locked. So you trying to do things in the tiny space between locks from getting mail, and the locks your anti virus also issues to scan your mail folders.
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  • Hi Matt, thanks.
    1. I've been using TB since about version 2 and before that MS Outlook, always been on 1 minute retrieval. Never been an issue before version 16. My business lives and dies on this as we work with clients solving problems where time is absolutely of the essence.
    2. Been using System Mechanic for years, gets good reviews in computer mags, and never been a problem.
    3. All the machines address individual email addresses at our provider (Netregistry), not an internal server.
    4. I understand
    Maybe we just learn to live with it.
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  • Netregistry is also my registrar so I know they offer IMAP mail accounts, if their IMAP server supports PUSH I do not know as I host my own servers,
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  • Bug Confirmed:

    Thunderbird 16, 16.0.1 and 16.0.2 are unusable on XP, freezing every few seconds no matter what you do, EG. failing to buffer text you type into a draft email until you wait 30sec for the cursor focus to return whereupon you have to retype it, EG. regularly pushing draft email windows to the background, Thunderbird windows even disappearing from XP's Task Bar (Alt-Tab required to find TBird's lost windows).

    Not sure if my large ~6 GB Inbox exacerbates the problem or not, but waiting 30sec to do anything (mouse clicks, pull-downs, whatever) for 3 weeks was unbearable so I finally reverted to 15.0.1 to regain my sanity! Deleting all *.msf files (and waiting 48hrs for TBird 16.0.2 to resync IMAP & build indexes etc) did not help a wit, nor did Compacting Inbox & other folders, nor did launching TBird in Safe Mode keeping Add Ons off.

    Regardless Thunderbird 16.x Fails in These 2 Ways:

    1. TBird 16.x perpetually hogs ~20% of the CPU, even when doing nothing at all, not indexing emails or downloading or anything, as confirmed by running Tools -> Activity Manager.

    2. TBird 16.x freezes completely for ~30sec every time it contacts IMAP server. Sure, changing "check for new messages every" from 1min to 5min reduces the severity of the problem (TBird max'ing out CPU completely for ~30sec every minute is unusable, TBird max'ing out CPU for ~30sec every 5min is merely unbearable!) Regardless, watching Windows Task Manager's "Performance" (CPU) and "Networking" tabs confirms this, both displaying squarish step functions just as you'd see on an oscilloscope. All networking traffic stops during these 30sec intervals, in addition to CPU red-lining.

    Reverting to Thunderbird 15.0.1 cures both problems!!
    http://kb.mozillazine.org/Go_back_to_...
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    • excellent. so in Tb16.0.2 we at least rule out for now redownloading.

      So if neither safe mode helped (windows, and Tbird), then changing the check interval to say 3 minutes is worth a test.

      /me love the drinking analogy
    • Clarification: changing IMAP checks from "every 1 min" to "every 5 min" somewhat reduce the severity of the problem, but in the end Thunderbird 16.x's (G)UI and the actual CPU still freeze too much to be usable :/
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  • FYI turning off Microsoft Security Essentials' "Real-time protection" (live antivirus scanning etc) also did not help TBird 16.x wake up. Reverting to TBird 15.0.1 was the only way I found to restore keyboard/mouse responsiveness and general usability.
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  • Holt, It would be interesting to determine what changed between version 15 and 16 to cause this on your system. I have one thing I want you to try FIRST - does problem go away if you start WINDOWS in safe mode per http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/wi... ?

    > Deleting all *.msf files (and waiting 48hrs for TBird 16.0.2 to resync IMAP & build indexes etc) did not help a wit, nor did Compacting Inbox & other folders,

    no, these wouldn't help. and it's unclear why you thought they would.

    If windows safe mode did not help, then proceed to do these items, one at a time in the following order, to see which of them helps the most.

    > 1 + 2
    > Not sure if my large ~6 GB Inbox exacerbates the problem

    Does your server support IDLE?

    As Matt said, you don't need check for new mail set to 1 minute. I wish Thunderbird enforced a higher minimum so users don't shoot themselves in the foot.

    Did you by chance set the hidden preference mail.server.default.check_all_folders_for_new to true?

    Tools | options | advanced | network & disk | set compact to something higher than the 10MB default

    6GB inbox - is that normal for you?? It's way too big unless you have fast PC+disk, fast network, and fast server. Get the Inbox below 1GB at least. (below 100MB even better) Use archive - https://support.mozillamessaging.com/... - or some other folders
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  • Hi Wayne, I don't know why you think that TB checking for mail every one minute is a problem. Many of us I'm sure use TB for business purposes and in my company's case, rapid receipt of emails is absolutely vital. If TB has a problem coping then maybe a warning needs to be published before the problem is solved.

    Starting business computers in safe mode is also far from a reality in small business where there is no IT department, we just have to get on with business to survive.

    In our case I think I might have solved the problem I first reported. The latest updates of System Mechanic have a function called AcceleWrite which apparently "optimizes" disk writing to avoid file fragmentation and the default is on. Once we disabled it the delay in moving messages from the InBox seems to have gone away.
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  • > I don't know why you think that TB checking for mail every one minute is a problem

    I can only say, most of us give experienced advice. In this case, yes, such a low setting can be a problem because there are circumstances where it has proven it can be. And it's not some that thunderbird can fix - everyone's environment is different - some are very good, some are very poor.

    > Starting business computers in safe mode is also far from a reality in small business where there is no IT department, we just have to get on with business to survive.

    safe mode is a test - nothing more

    > System Mechanic have a function called AcceleWrite
    lovely how these tools "improve things" :( obviously, often they don't
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  • > I don't know why you think that TB checking for mail every one minute is a problem

    I can only say, most of us give experienced advice. In this case, yes, such a low setting can be a problem because there are circumstances where it has proven it can be. And it's not some that thunderbird can fix - everyone's environment is different - some are very good, some are very poor.

    > Starting business computers in safe mode is also far from a reality in small business where there is no IT department, we just have to get on with business to survive.

    safe mode is a test - nothing more

    > System Mechanic have a function called AcceleWrite

    lovely how these tools "improve things" :( obviously, often they don't.
    BTW, Windows' safe mode would have exposed this failing very quickly
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  • Windows Safe mode did Not help.

    No idea if IMAP server supports IDLE or not.

    mail.server.default.check_all_folders_for_new is Not set to true.

    "Tools | options | advanced | network & disk | set compact" remains at 20MB.

    Again, "check for new messages every" 1min or every 10min is as much as a red herring as the size of my Inbox. The real issue is that an email system reliable for much of the past decade suddenly freezes up the CPU for ~30sec all too often, the moment one upgrades to TBird 16.X. Reverting to TBird 15.0.1 works perfectly, no matter how large an Inbox, no matter how frequent IMAP checks (nevertheless, sanctimonious lectures telling Bob & I we've been running our separate businesses wrong for the past decade are fabulously fascinating ;)
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  • > Windows Safe mode did Not help.
    This would be expected, with AcceleWrite already disabled.

    > Reverting to TBird 15.0.1 works perfectly, no matter how large an Inbox, no matter how frequent IMAP checks
    that's fine - you're welcome to know better than the people who help hundreds of users a month.
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  • Hang on Wayne, it was my post that mentioned Accelewrite, not Holt's. No-one is having a go at you about your volunteering your time and effort assisting people with their enquiries about TB problems. Just that this time you're consistently blaming (and with some but not total justification) factors outside of TB. Could it just be that the latest version of TB also contributes to Holt's problem? It certainly seems that way if reverting to version 15 eliminates it.
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  • I would disagree Bob, my opinion is that all of these so called helper applications are nothing of the sort and most of them regularly cause these sorts of problems.

    If Thunderbird is using accepted disk IO practices, and it is, any problems that arise for some software that makes claims about optimising disk IO is most likely at fault because it is not doing things by the book.

    Microsoft have spent billions in trying to maximise windows performance for the majority of people. Windows 7 is a perfect example of what they can do if they are of a mind to. Along comes a small company that claims that they have a better way to use the windows registry, manage disk io and memory. They can prevent problems before they occur and miracle of miracles they have also located the holy grail.

    The way windows works is undoubtedly not the fastest configuration. It is however a balanced trade off between speed and stability that your system integrator is happy to support. These speed enhancers are not all snake oil, but they sacrifice stability for speed. For this reason I must disagree.

    To the comment in this thread about how your in business and have no IT department, I really hope that you have more IT support that yourself, unless your in the business of providing support.

    Car owners think nothing of organizing a service for their car, people regularly send their lawn mower to someone to 'service it' for the season. When there are issues in business with the cool room, you don't brush off the multi metre and dig in, you call the electrician or refrigeration mechanic.

    Your IT, as you have quite rightly pointed out, is vital to your business. Don't cheap skate on it. It it is a business critical item then you need to have someone you can ring who can come on site and fix this stuff.

    I have already said that there is a better way with email, and that is IMAP. The fact that you are stuck on us telling you that your set up is probably not optimal is unfortunate, it is also indicative of the situation in many small businesses.

    Information technology for business is not a television. You can't just buy stuff off the shelf and expect it to just work in your use case. One thing you can be almost certain of. there will be no "system cleanup and speed booster" software installed buy a professional.
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  • Hi Matt, in many respects I agree with what you say. So-called helper software is not always going to help, though I find System Mechanic useful in other respects. And while I do look after my own IT within my capabilities plus the magic of groups like this and of course google, I also now only buy Dell because they come to me instead of the old days where I had to take my machine/s to HP or whomever and wait days or weeks. In fact my brand new machine died within hours (video board) so the day after reporting it the Dell man was on hand and replaced it.

    When I get a chance I will take your advice and check out IMAP as opposed to my POP3 setup.

    I live in hope that one day PCs and their operating systems will work just like whitegoods, and yes, I know that the Apple enthusiasts out there will tell me that day has already come ;-)

    Anyway, thanks again to you and others who provide your valuable time on queries like this. I do the same in my field in several LinkedIn groups.
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  • Wayne and Matt, by the way, what is the process to switch TB from POP3 to IMAP?

    Thanks.
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  • CHAMP
    I’m the only one in my house not to have an iProduct.
    The simplest route Bob is simply create a new account using the wizard and specify IMAP.

    You have a fully functional POP mail account. Don't mess with what works ;)
    The IMAP account will create a whole new "account" inbox junk etc so the two will never meet. Once your happy with the IMAP arrangement you can then disable or remove your old POP account.

    Note 1: IMAP is synchronised to the server so the server account will get full if you don't move mail off the imap account to local folders. (Local folders is the same as POP. You have a local copy and it is deleted from the server.

    Note 2. IMAP is idea for setting up your mail to connect to a mobile device (Phone, tablet or laptop)
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  • Hi Bob. Thanks for pointing out my error in conflating the two different situations.

    And thanks both of you for providing such detailed information. Not everyone is so helpful.

    > Just that this time you're consistently blaming (and with some but not total justification) factors outside of TB. Could it just be that the latest version of TB also contributes to Holt's problem? It certainly seems that way if reverting to version 15 eliminates it.

    To save time, I tend not to nuance my responses. But yes, the problem can be totally TBird's fault. Or totally not, and anywhere in between. I just tend to start off with what's most likely.

    In this type of case, where something goes bad after updating, a high percentage of problems we see are caused by non-thunderbird software. It may seem counterintuitive - because only THunderbird changed, right? But the problem is that "other" software (AV for example) often does special things for "specific" software (like Thunderbird). And so when one updates the "specific" software, sometimes they interact badly.

    So, your issue is solved, right?

    And Hollt's issue is not. It is possible that something in Thunderbird is affecting him. We take baby steps to determine where the problem lies. For now, I stand by my initial recommendations
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  • Bob Ronai: thanks for yr help thoughtfully getting the word out to other TBird users. Can you possibly change the status of this combined bug report from "SOLVED" to "PARTIALLY SOLVED" ?
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  • Bob's issue is solved, so the topic should stay solved. Holt's is different and so better perused in a different topic.

    Suggest you create a new topic with the title "High cpu when checking for new mail." and post the link here. I also suggest you work your way through https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird:... - which is about performance in general, not just memory.
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  • Unfort I don't have further time to invest. Moving back to TBird 15.0.1 (and GMail later if nec) is the only coherent solution from a small business perspective -- I was merely sharing my experience (detailed bug report) as a community service to others.

    Good luck to all!
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