Quicken Canada product page needs to explain what happens if the person stops paying for the subscription

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The product page (https://www.quicken.com/canada/compare) states that it is now subscription based (1 year period), but it doesn't state what happens if the user doesn't pay the subscription.

It needs to be clearly defined if they can still use Quicken in a manual mode or not.
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QPW

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Posted 2 years ago

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Daniel Legault

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I would like to know this as well, what is the subscription for?
(Edited)
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mccrea

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Sounds like a cash grab.  Greed knows no bounds. They want you to pay a full product cost every year forever. Cost is way too high for an annual subscription for Canada. Time to look at other products.
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splasher, SuperUser

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I am not endorsing or condemning the subscription business model, BUT EVERY year at this time when users find out that their three year old version of Quicken will cease to be able to download from their financial institutions, there is this huge up roar and one thing they always ask for is a subscription model, so now Quicken has decided to do it with the Canadian version first and the users on the other side of the argument come out and complain that they are doing a subscription model.

I think the only thing every one would be happy with is if they gave it away for free forever.  Now, how long do you think they would stay in business with that business model?

I don't know what the right price point is, but only time will tell if the concept works for Quicken.
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mccrea

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In the past(goes way back) I have been paying $20-$40 for 3 years.  I would usually wait for a discounted price before buying.  So this new subscription is basically tripling my cost.  Too much of an increase for no real increase in the value of the product. It is about double what I would consider appropriate for this sort of subscription.  Also, there are a lot of free apps out there now too.  
(Edited)
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Bylo Selhi

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> I would usually wait for a discounted price before buying.

Don't hold your breath waiting for a discount. From Quicken Canada Order Questions
Q. How do I place an order for Quicken Canada?
A. Quicken Canada is only available for purchase on Quicken.com
(Edited)
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QPW

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I'm always amazed at how naive the Quicken customers are.  Intuit and now Quicken Inc has always had a "big filter" on what they hear from the customer.

Customer asks for downloading loan transactions.
Customer asks for the loan schedule calculator to do weird oddball schedules.
Customer thinks they are going to get a download just like they have in other accounts, and extended loan calculator to handle all their cases.

Quicken Inc comes up with a loan account that downloads exactly what the financial institution says it should be, and restricts the user from "messing with it".

Customer asks for a subscription.
Customer think they are going to get to keep their decades old version of Quicken and pay less than it would cost them for even one year of Quicken, which they have only being paying every three years.

Quicken Inc hears "I want to always have the latest version of Quicken, for a bit lower price than if I paid for it every year."

No matter how many times SuperUsers tried to explain that they were already doing a subscription system for the online services.  It is called buy Quicken once every three years.

Well now all this complaining seems to have taken the choice off of the table for the Canadian customer (and they weren't even the ones that with the most calls for this).  And I expect if the outrage isn't too much they will be trying the same thing next year for Quicken US.
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QPW

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BTW Quicken Inc.  It should also be clearly defined if not subscribing for the year means the online services are cut off or that they just don't get the latest version of Quicken when it comes out.
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QPW

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BTW one of the things that occurred to me is that the terms might not in fact be set in granite yet.
It seems to me that given the feedback from the customers they can do anything from:
  1. Software stops working if someone doesn't pay the subscription fee.  (Extremely bad idea!)
  2. It just stops allowing importing.
  3. Basically restoring to what the old 3 year model does, and the only real difference is that if you keep up the subscription you get the newest version for a bit cheaper than you would if you bought it a full price every year.
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rrumball

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The FAQ states what happens if you do not renew your subscription:

What happens to the program when access to Quicken Connected Services ends?
You'll no longer have access to connected services, like the ability to download banking transactions or investment quotes, mobile access, or premium care. While you can always access your data, other features of the product may be limited

Ref. https://www.quicken.com/support/quick...
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QPW

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Yes VolvoGirl pointed that out to me too. :-)

That is VERY big negative.  Like NotACPA said, I wouldn't buy it under those conditions.  And I have a feeling people not buying it is about all the people that made a decision like that would understand.
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QPW

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Yes VolvoGirl pointed that out to me too. :-)

That is VERY big negative.  Like NotACPA said, I wouldn't buy it under those conditions.  And I have a feeling people not buying it is about all the people that made a decision like that would understand.
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Bylo Selhi

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Re: "Your Quicken data file will remain on your computer, and you can continue to access your data even if you choose not to continue with your subscription. You'll no longer have access to connected services, like the ability to download banking transactions or investment quotes, mobile access, or premium care. While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions."

Like others I want to express my most adamant objection to this change in policy. The $90/year subscription fee is a cash grab. I can understand that even if I don't like it. But this is extortion.

Under the old model if you didn't want to upgrade you could continue to use Quicken manually. Under this model your use of the product ends completely. It effectively becomes a read-only snapshot of your data as of the date of expiration. This breaks the trust between Quicken and its user base.

This is completely unacceptable.

By subscribing to this new model you also consent to this new extortion racketbusiness model. When you upgrade to 2017 your data gets converted. You can't go back. So in 2018 you can't go back to an earlier version like 2016 or 2015 and manually update your data.

Think long and hard before you pull the trigger on the 2017 version.
(Edited)
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splasher, SuperUser

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Seems like the proper response is to purchase and then immediately apply for a refund to get your voice heard and possibly get Quicken, Inc's attention to this terrible new policy.
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Bylo Selhi

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For completeness, this new business model is also spelled out in the FAQ Quicken Canada Order Questions

See questions "What happens to the program when access to Quicken Connected Services ends?", "What happens to my file when my access to Quicken Connected Services ends?" and "What happens to my data when my access to Quicken Connected Services ends?"

FWIW I refuse to upgrade to Q2017 under these conditions. I'll continue with my older version and start to update transactions manually in the future when it expires.

So if this policy remains Quicken will have lost a customer who bought their first copy in the MS-DOS days and has been faithfully upgrading periodically ever since. I assume this isn't the outcome that Quicken anticipated.
(Edited)
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rrumball

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Today I contacted Quicken customer service (case number 00528493) regarding the statements in the FAQ and the agent indicated "No, You can manually enter your data or information. The only exception is the online banking services." I asked them to please clarify the FAQ to clearly state this or I would likely refund my Quicken 2017 and just stay with my current version. The person indicated that this confusion would be brought to the attention of management. We'll see if the FAQ gets updated/clarified.
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Laurie

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  • What happens to my file when my access to Quicken Connected Services ends?
    Your Quicken data file will remain on your computer, and you can continue to access your data even if you choose not to continue with your subscription. You'll no longer have access to connected services, like the ability to download banking transactions or investment quotes, mobile access, or premium care. While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions.

The FAQ was updated on Jan 31, 2017.
https://www.quicken.com/support/quicken-canada-order-questions

So the data file will become READ ONLY.
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Bylo Selhi

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@Quicken Kathryn

> I'll follow up with the team to make sure they're providing the correct FAQ.

Kathryn, could you also please follow up with Quicken management about our dissatisfaction over the "or add manual transactions."

Seeing as how once one upgrades from Q15 or Q16 to Q17 and data files get converted there's no going back I, and I imagine many others, won't be upgrading to Q17 unless that restriction is removed.

Thank you.
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QPW

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@Bylo Selhi there is one new "loophole" with Quicken 2017.  Quicken 2016 can read Quicken 2017 data file.  This is the first time in Quicken history that you can do this.
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rrumball

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Well then that settles it. Refund requested after only two days of use of Quicken 2017 Canada. I cannot accept not being able to even use Quicken in manual mode if I chose to cancel my annual subscription in the future. I will stick with Quicken 2015...at least that way I can stick with manual updates after 2018. I'll certainly repurchase if the terms and conditions change.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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RE: the "loophole", this holds true for the US versions but will it hold true for the Canadian versions with this new business model?
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Tharris

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So, let me get this straight:  

One of the most frequent issues Quicken users have is the reliability of downloading their entries from their financial institutions.  Quicken is struggling to make that process work reliably with all the various FI's people use. Whether it is from having to work with the FI's to support Direct Connect or trying to keep up with FI changes for web connect to work, Quicken is struggling.

So, their answer is to put in place a subscription model that forces you to stay in a connected world they are struggling to make work.  Once the user signs up for that arrangement and their downloads stop working, regardless of who is to blame, Quicken's new answer is that the user can't stop using that failed connection process and manually enter transactions?  Their customer either has to keep changing FI's, hoping connections keep working at that new FI, or give up all their historical data?  How does this make sense?  What customer would ever sign up for those handcuffs?

Did I understand these terms correctly?  This can't be the long term business model that the new owners of Quicken came up with.  If you can't generate loyal customers through great product, you sure can't force tie them to junk.  Especially when you are talking about people's financial information generated over decades.
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splasher, SuperUser

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I find it interesting, soooo many comments, but as of this point in time, this post only has 3 "Me Too" votes.

Hey folks, votes talk a language that Quicken just might listen to.  

SPEAK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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Yup...so far 17 followers but only 7 ME-TOO votes...hmmmm
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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I too can say right now that I have NO interest in this kind of subscription model and will DEFINITELY not support this if Quicken will stop me from being able to use the product at least manually if I do not pay the annual subscription fee.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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Without the ongoing ability to and or edit ones own data at any time,  the more I think about this, the more I cannot help but think that this is tantamount to ransomware, because it is not like you can simply take your data and move to another software so easily if you decide you do not like something from Quicken, like you might be able to do with say a word processing software, especially when one becomes a long-time user with lots of data, developed reports, connectivity, etc.

And though it may be possible to get ones data out of QWin using QIF data format, the same is not possible with QMac, so there is no easy way out, since it says in the FAQ under I don’t use online banking, do I still need to buy connected services? "All future Quicken products will be subscription products."

@Quicken, Please say that you will reconsider this position and at least allow users to be able to manually add to and/or edit transactions in their data file even if their subscription expires.
(Edited)
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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And back to my earlier point about "Especially with this pricing...it communicates that they would be getting more...not less", the FAQ states:
"Why does Quicken Canada cost more this year?
New Quicken Canada Connected Services allow you to have continuous access to your bank downloads and the newest product features, so you’ll never have to purchase an upgrade again."
Quicken can charge what they want. That is their prerogative. But how is this justification for a higher price? What does this model give more that the old model does not? The old model gave you "continuous access to your bank downloads" for up to 3.5 years (as has been pointed out before). The new model only gives it to you for 1 year. And now with only a 30-day trial vs the old 60 days. How is this more?

And to repeatedly keep using language in the FAQ like "How do I cancel Quicken Connected Services?" implies that the only thing that a user is losing if they stop their subscription is Connected services when if fact they would lose access to maintaining their data locally. This is DISHONEST and MISLEADING.

(And yes, I am aware of the text that follows about "What happens to my file when my access to Quicken Connected Services ends?" but you have to get through a lot before you get to that info). 
(Edited)
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deanesfield

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I can imagine that a subscription model could update the software automatically without any requiring permission, so that all copies will be of the same flavour. There are times that I do not want the latest and greatest features which with their presence can hold up my workflow up or present issues that I just don't need.

The Canadian cohort may whine and provide resistive feedback, but I guess it be put down to "Canadian inferiority complex", but hopefully it will reviewed before unleashing subscriptions in this form to the greater US market. 
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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If you have issues with this, add your vote at the link below.
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Bylo Selhi

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The Canadian cohort may whine and provide resistive feedback, but I guess it be put down to "Canadian inferiority complex", but hopefully it will reviewed before unleashing subscriptions in this form to the greater US market.
I disagree. We don't have an inferiority complex." Arguably Canada >> USA ;) But this is neither the time nor place...

Some reasons why Quicken has a better chance of ramming this down our throats:

• We have even fewer competitive options than you do.

• I'm not aware of any alternatives that can download from Canadian financial institutions. For most Quicken Canada users who would consider a competitive offering that's a show-stopper.

• Some of the Quicken alternatives either don't support FX or don't support it very well.

• We have more effective gun controls ;)

So Quicken can do this here much easier than they could stateside. Then if they succeed they could use their Canadian experience to justify imposing it on their primary market.
(Edited)
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QPW

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Folks I have posted this new "idea" thread:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-change-to-a-subscription-that-makes-the-users-data-read-only-if-they

The problem with this thread current thread is that it has to title asking for clarification on the product page.  Well we now have that, but with that title people might not realize what is at stake.  And also voting for this thread leaves some doubt on what a person would be voting for.

So that is why I created the in above thread I a suggest people vote on that thread.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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AGREED!!! Please add your voice by adding your vote to this new thread!

ALL QuIcken users should VOTE as this will affect ALL Quicken products, as I highlight from their FAQ page.
(Edited)
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Lanka

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Agreed. This is a bad business model. Not even Microsoft does this if you use an older product version. I am U.S. user of many years.
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QPW

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If anyone still has the Quicken Windows 2017 Canadian release please test something that I just thought of.

Test what happens if you try to use Quicken Windows 2017 Canadian without a network connection.

It occurs to me that the way it might know "one year from the time you buy it" would be to check with something stored in the Intuit Id online.

If you are offline it might immediately consider that license expired and go into READ-ONLY mode.
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Quicken Kathryn, Official Rep

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Hi QPW,
The subscription will not automatically expire or assume expiration if the user is offline; however, users will have to periodically log in with their Intuit IDs when the login session expires.

Kathryn

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