QWin/QMac 2017: Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying

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  • (Edited)
Quicken Inc has put out the Quicken 2017 Canadian version "testing" a new subscription business model.  The subscription is for one year and if the user doesn't pay to extend the subscription at the end of the year their data files become READ-ONLY.

They can't even add any new transactions manually.

And there is no way to "buy" Quicken using the old business model.

If this is left unchallenged they will most likely use this model for the US version next year.

People should vote on this "idea" if they are against Quicken Inc using this business model.
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QPW

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Posted 1 year ago

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mshiggins, SuperUser

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What? You must be kidding? Can the read only data be exported?
Seeking Quicken alternatives now (Just in case):
From Moneyspire website
"
Import & Export Data Supports OFX, QFX, QIF and CSV file format imports, and exporting to spreadsheet and QIF file format, so you don't have to enter data manually. "
(Edited)
I contacted the CEO office.  I received a call back from Alvin on Behalf of Office of the President.  He stated that due to feedback, they have no plans to change the purchase model for the USA version of Quicken.
I asked that they provide an email audit trail of the statement and they sent one.
I consider this reassuring news and suggested that they send out an official announcement to this effect as there is a lot of concern about the US version of Quicken. He said he would pass on the suggestion.

"


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Quicken Support [ ref:_00D36JnNs._50036G67dY:ref ]
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 22:30:31 +0000 (GMT)
From: customersupport@quicken.com <customersupport@quicken.com>
To: @yahoo.com <@yahoo.com>

Hi Mike,

Thank you for choosing Quicken!

We appreciate you for sending your feedback as we continue to provide the best features and services that we can provide to our customers. We assure you that the upcoming releases of Quicken for Windows US Version will not be a subscription based software. Rest assure that we are listening and are paying close attention on our customers feedback and opinion.

Here's your case number: 00971427, this serves as reference for our conversation. If you have other concerns you may contact us by phone to give more details by calling (650) 250-1900 during our hours of operations, Monday to Friday (5:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific Time). You may also contact us through our chat support team using this link: https://www.quicken.com/support#windows (scroll down, look for 'Live Chat').

Regards,
  
Alvin
Quicken Sr. Tech Support
On Behalf of the Office of the President

ref:_00D36JnNs._50036G67dY:ref
'
(Edited)
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gmalis1

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So, if that IS the case (and that would certainly be encouraging news), why not get out in front of that and make an official announcement to Quicken's users?  Either on here, through an email or even a general statement to the press outlets?

You would think that a business decision like that would warrant a press release of some sort.  

I'll still believe it when I see it. 

But much thanks for taking the initiative with this, getting a response and posting it here.  
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Pedro Massabie

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I guess I'm going back to upload transactions by hand. Sorry quicken but you are not going to get 89 (for starters) just to save me time downloading transactions.
I've never used your online banking feature, I downloaded my files directly from my bank, and then imported it to quicken. This downloading transactions was working well until you created your online feature. Now I see what was the goal. Charge ransom for internet access.
From what I see you did not add any value to pay for 89$ that I didn't had for 59$ when I purchased my 2014 version.
Rather than keeping me buying every 3rd year, you got me buying NONE any year.
(Edited)
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John Wells

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I've been using Quicken since the DOS days . . . not upgrading every year but at least every other year. So I've paid a LOT of money for this app over the years. I can tell you that I better be able to get a few years out of my 2017 Deluxe with full financial institution downloads and functionality or I'll take you to court. Depending on your price point for yearly subscriptions after that, I will become an ex-Quicken user. Thanks for screwing your long-time customers.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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To add to what QPW says, here are quote from the FAQ:

What happens to my data when my access to Quicken Connected Services ends?
... While you can continue to access your data and run reports, you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions. [emphasis added]
BTW Quicken's plan is to roll this model out to ALL Quicken products since it says in the FAQ under I don’t use online banking, do I still need to buy connected services? "All future Quicken products will be subscription products."

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
(Edited)
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rbarton43

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I have thought all these things in this thread.  QB is reliable but since jumping off the Quicken Mac treadmill, I will pass on QB and remain with simple double entry.  I don't miss editing downloaded transactions or forced upgrades one bit.  The time factor is negligible and the satisfaction with old fashioned bookkeeping is worth it.  REFRESHING....  Assets, liabilities, OE, Income and expenses.    And the cost is about a dozen sheets of paper per year.
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saberman

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I have used Quicken since the beginning of time.  I would like to address a few of the items in Quicken Kathryn's Official Response.

>Getting to a single model-year is particularly important: for customers, it means that you will always be on the latest and best version of Quicken without ever having to go through an upgrade process
I update every two years to the one year old version -- usually at more than a 50% discount.  The reason I do that is that the one year old version has had a year for Quicken to fix the bugs that always surface with a new version.  Users that update to the current version get to be beta testers.

>Compared to the current non-subscription pricing in the US
But the current version is always offered at a 40%-50% discount.  In addition, the purchase price covers three years of service.  Any cost comparisons should be to the actual effective market price, (40%-50% discount)/3, and not the suggested retail price.  Your subscription pricing would increase cost by 600%.

>Our commitment to supporting earlier versions of Quicken is unchanged: the duration of the Connected Services period and the behavior of the product after discontinuation
Not true.  Prior versions were fully supported and operation for three years (if a current version was purchase).  In addition, with the exception of downloading transactions, all other functionality (adding transactions, manual price updates, etc.) continued to work.


(Edited)
I've starting searching for Quicken alternatives.  Fortunately, there are couple out there that are actual software downloads  and not web interfaces that require the internet to run:
Moneydance, Moneyspire,
(Edited)
I would actually like the vote to be for:
Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription model
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Donald McDermott

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Quicken should not go the subscription route for Quicken Mac.  Many users will jump ship.  Its all about cost.  Granted Quicken is the best out there, BUT going the subscription route will be a far higher price than buying a new program every 2 years (and probably with an Amazon discount).  I want to stay with Quicken so I hope this bad idea gets shelved.
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Dan Glynhampton, SuperUser

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Vote added!

Whilst I am not against the subscription model in principle, and for a mature product such as Quicken it makes a lot of sense, it has to be priced such that people feel it is as good a deal or better than the previous purchase model.  Also, if the subscription isn't renewed, manual access and updates to the data need to be allowed, otherwise the company will be perceived to be holding the customer's data hostage. 

Adobe found itself in a similar situation when it included the Lightroom product in its "Creative Cloud" subscription plan.  For those not familiar with it Lightroom holds photographs in a database, provides editing capabilities and online "mobile" services in a similar way that Quicken does those things with financial data.  Initially, when the subscription expired,  the product was crippled in a similar way to what appears to be the Quicken model.  After a lot of customer complaints, the position was modified to this:

With Lightroom 5.5, at the end of a membership, the desktop application will continue to launch and provide access to the photographs managed within Lightroom as well as the Slideshow, Web, Book, or Print creations that we know many photographers painstakingly create. The Develop and Map modules have been disabled in order to signal the end of the membership and the need to renew in order to receive Adobe's continuous innovation in those areas. Access to Lightroom mobile workflows will also cease to function.

So whilst the online elements are disabled, photos can be accessed, added and removed and users were much more comfortable. 

Hopefully Quicken Inc. will learn from Adobe's experience as well as their own customer feedback and adjust the subscription model to a "sweet spot" which provides customer satisfaction and a reliable income stream for the company.

As a final thought, I'm an overseas user of Quicken, the online and download services are of no use to me at all, I have to use the product manually.  I don't feel that great about a subscription model where I'm paying for online services that I can't use, but if I don't pay I can't use the product manually.  I'm probably part of a tiny proportion of the Quicken user base, but either I want to be able to use the product manually when the subscription expires, or I'd like to see a much cheaper subscription fee that just allows manual use of the product with no online services.
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rbarton43

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Folks,
Remember the IRS requirements will be getting simpler and hopefully we will not need expensive software  (via subscription or forced upgrades).
Intuit is reading the tea leaves and wants to switch to the subscription model because people only think about making monthly payments.  If paying cash, would you choose to buy the $60,000 pickup truck or the $25,000 base model?  Also, the forced upgrades allow everyone to see just how little the new iteration has improved.
 The principles of accounting have not changed in centuries.  Only the IRS, slight of hand code, changes to allow privileges to certain groups while extracting money from others under the guise of what is moral or right. Notice there is never a connection between taxes and budget.  With Intuit there is no connection between increased value and upgrade pricing. 
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Bill Jones

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gmalis1, Q2017 will not turn to read-only.  It will turn to you can't open the program so it's NO ACCESS ONLY.  There will come a day when you need to reinstall the program or you open a new data file, and it will ask for your user ID and PW.  It will then tell you that you are using a product that is no longer supported and it cannot authorize you to open the program.  You try to reopen your original data file and get the same message.  You are then locked out of your data.

rbarton43, dream on.  It ain't happening.  If you running a business or working with investments you going to have to do the same paperwork as now.  If you just an employee without investments then you never needed financial software.
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gmalis1

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I never said Quicken 2017 US will turn read only.  Reread my comments.  Q2017 could become inoperable...if Quicken goes belly up and turns off the servers that require a "handshake" between your Quicken/Inuit ID and Quicken's servers.  That's unlikely, but a remote possibility.  

Another scenario could be Quicken changing the End User License Agreement (which they have done in the past) to make Quicken 2017 read only at the end of April 30, 2020.  Once again, not going to say it could happen, but it's possible.  The whole Intuit/Quicken ID and password link to the Quicken servers makes everyone nervous.  
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KDL

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A comment about Adobe Lightroom.  Adobe still sells Lightroom on a perpetual license model that doesn't expire.  So they support 2 models:  Monthly subscription via Creative Cloud, which gives you access to more features, or one-time-charge license for each upgrade (i.e. current V6) which is plain Lightroom.  It is very hard to find, on Adobe's sight, the purchase for the OTC license, but if you dig you can find it.  Clearly they like the monthly subscription better (ka-ching).

Why can't Quicken offer both?
gmalis, I can currently run Quicken 2015 without an internet connection and access my datafile.  Q2015 also wanted me to enter an Intuit id, so I'm hoping Q2017 will be similar behavior.
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QPW

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I should add this before this thread really lights up (I expect it to get really long, and probably closed pretty quickly).

This new model also states that you are restricted to the one Intuit Id attached to the subscription, but you can have multiple data files.  This makes no sense especially in the US version where there are so many things tied to the Intuit Id.  Multiple data files without multiple Intuit Ids means that these features will not work right:
  1. Quicken Mobile
  2. Online Bill presentment.
  3. Credit Report (to get a different one with a different data file.
  4. No ability to throw away an Intuit Id and use another if any of the services connected to it get "damaged on the server".  Starting with Quicken 2017 R4 this is in fact happening for Online Bill presentment, and the only current way to workaround it is to use a new Intuit Id.
Note you probably want to follow the other thread where I just asked if anyone can check the behavior when working offline.  It seems to me that one way they might know when one year is up, is by checking it online using the Intuit Id.  If this true (unconfirmed at this point), then it is entirely possible that if you use it offline it might immediately go into read-only mode.
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-canada-product-page-needs-to-explain-what-happens-if-the-person-stops-paying-for-the-subscription
(Edited)
That would essential mean the Quicken is a little more useful than Mint since it would become read-only without an internet connection.  Hopefully, that will not be the case.  It would be good if some users of the Canadian version would chime in to let us know the usage/sign-on limitations they've encountered.
(Edited)
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Lanka

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I think it is a really bad idea to change to subscription only as a business model. Perhaps the subscription could be an option much like Microsoft does with its Office product. They offer both a subscription service and purchase option. The subscription is annual with a lower cost but the higher priced purchase option still exists. It is up to the customer to decide which is best for them. I have been a Quicken user for many years and I know that I would prefer being able to choose.
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mshiggins, SuperUser

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Jeffery, what other programs can read Quicken data? There are no programs that can directly read Quicken data other than Quicken.

Although you can export some Quicken data in various formats, it is not possible to export all Quicken data.

Just to give a few examples: 

  • you cannot export attachments except one by one
  • you cannot export lot selections from investment sales
  • you cannot export register notes
  • you cannot export reminders


There has been no announcement on what, if any, export options would be available once your data file is locked.

(Edited)
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QPW

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Actually it has been stated that the export options won't be turned off.
From Katheryn's post:

"In Reduced Functionality Mode, you'll have access to your existing data, including the ability to edit and delete existing transactions, run reports, and export data."

For most people the export format would be QIF.  Which of course leaves a lot to be desired.
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QPW

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Actually I was just thinking of Quicken Windows.  For Quicken Mac the only way to get data out would be reports to to CSV format, and that will only work for non investment accounts.
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QPW

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Oops.  I'm going to take that back.  Quicken Mac uses a standard database format.
And as such Banktivity (iBank) knows how to read it, and can convert directly.
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Jeffrey Wilens

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MsHiggins,
  • you cannot export attachments except one by one
  • you cannot export lot selections from investment sales
  • you cannot export register notes
  • you cannot export reminders
I have never used attachments but you would still have them in your computer.  Lot selections and capital gains calculations for Quicken never worked, don't account for wash sales, they are just reports to give you an idea.  Register notes?  Reminders?  Why would you need to export a reminder.
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bmciance, SuperUser

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That is terrible!  Vote added.
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netmeg

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They do it because they can. There's no serious competition. Believe me, I've looked.
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splasher, SuperUser

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Agreed, this stinks.  Vote added.
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Bylo Selhi

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They do it because they can. There's no serious competition. Believe me, I've looked.

Did you find any competition, serious or otherwise? I'm being serious. There is no competition.
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Ed

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Best replacement is Banktivity for Mac, www.iggsoftware.com
(Edited)
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Paul Colette

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I've been using Banktivity/iBank for a couple of years concurrently with Q2007 and find it to be quite useful. It still needs some work and they are planning a new version release very soon which I hope adds some of the missing features.
I'm also currently using Q2017 as a test but if they go thru with locking manual transactions I'm done with it. I don't use the online features so a subscription model where I keep paying for online access is not attractive.
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Jim (JR) Harris

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bkm said:
I have used GNUCash in the past, and it works well. There was no transaction download, however. But I manually enter all transactions anyway.
Unfortunately that doesn't work for everyone.

In my case, due to a rather extreme palsy which has only gotten worse as the years have gone by, plus the pain in my hands, my ability to "manually enter [. . .] transactions" is very limited at best.

I don't even write checks "manually" anymore after my bank started complaining that they didn't know if I was writing a Dr.'s prescription or a check! ( :laughing!: )  If I need to make a payment, I either use my bank's bill-pay service, or if I absolutely must  write a manual check, I ask my wife to do it.

With regard to the subscription model, I object to that being the only method  to obtain the product.  In my case - being overseas frequently where Internet connections are absolutely abysmal at best and non-existent at worst - a version that absolutely mandates  an on-line connection, even occasionally, is as useless as Teats on a Boar Hog.

Re:  Transaction download.
A Quicken WebConnect file is simply a modified XML file which is very similar in format to a QIF file.  I am surprised that someone - GnuCash for example - hasn't figured out how to import it.  It might be as simple as renaming it to ".QIF", or renaming it and modifying the header slightly.  A batch file, shell script, some Perl/Python, or a drop or two of C could perform any additional conversion necessary if it can't be used as-is.

I don't use a "direct connect" download anymore since many banks have gone to "two factor authentication" which (usually) kills direct connect.  The few banks that can still accept Direct Connect connections charge for it.  So what I do is download the WebConnect files manually and save them to my system.  I then import them, again manually, into Quicken and proceed to clean-up the mess that they create.  The work is non-trivial, but is less painful than entering every transaction manually.

There is really nothing here that can't be done somewhere else - Mint, GnuCash, etc. - so it's really a matter of Quicken's attitude about all of this that will decide whether I stay or go.

Jim (JR)
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Spokey

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My credit union (affinity fcu) uses 2FA and it works with direct connect.  I think a couple others (brokerage) use it too.  The only problem I have is with Capital One Visa which went south about a month ago and won't come back and Barclay Visa which periodically gets screwed up until I deactivate / reactivate.

I took a look at GNUCash and didn't really like it.  Maybe I didn't have it configured right but it had too much of the double entry bookeeping model even after I configured it otherwise.  I still have it on a playground machine.  Maybe I should take another look at it.

I have read reviews and done searches for alternatives and not found anything for me.  There are a few checkbook / budget oriented ones.  But I don't do a budget and for that part want the download or manual entry along with reconciliation.  That's it. 

I do want reporting.  Moslty I want to be able print out (I actually put it to adobe format for archiving) invest stuff, medical costs, contributions, etc. for tax time. I'd do some other stuff if Quicken reporting was any good.  Or if they had an api (maybe an sql / odbc one) I would be happy to write reports in crystal reports.

 My more complicated need is on the investment side keeping track equities, basis, splits, and all the other stuff (uncovered sales).  Quicken doesn't do a great job at that and I haven't found anything that appears to be as good as quicken.  I haven't actually tried others.  My opinion so far is based on reviews and reading about features.
CHecking MoneyDance and MOneyspire.
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Rhinecliff

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Agreed, terrible news!  Vote added.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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Well, this gets even more interesting. According to this reply from Quicken here,  users will need to "periodically log in with their Intuit IDs when the login session expires ". What log in session is this referring to? This suggests that Quicken will need to call home every so often to stay active. 

So what of users that desire to stay offline completely? Currently, after users have registered their data file, they no longer have to be online. There are users that desire to stay offline. Does this mean that those users will not be able to use the product?

Unfortunately, Quicken decided to shut down the conversation before any more questions could be asked. Hmmm....

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
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QPW

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This has be "studied" for MANY years, you are not going to import a QFX without the network.  The "off switch" is a response from the server.  Quicken sends its version number to the server, the server checks if your request if valid and returns the result.  The "valid" is determined by both the financial institution being valid and the version of Quicken being valid.  Without a network, it can't check, and the result is always "invalid".

Note that QIF imports do not have this restriction, QIF file import doesn't contact the network.  Also a bit of history.  The US version has always been this way, but up until about 5 years ago the Canadian version would block QIF imports if the version of Quicken was more than two years old.  I'm not sure which year it changed, but when the "subscription" changed from 2 to 3 years, then also dropped the blocking of the QIF file imports for versions of Quicken that were older than this period of time.
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Hershey

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@QPW,  You could be right, probably are right. I am not fighting with you. A question came to my mind and way to confirm right or wrong came with it. So, I will run my little test. If you are right, I am going to be pissed. Not at you, but at Quicken. I am sure there is a reason that handshake you are describing is necessary, but I don't know why. I don't think it protects my data. I am running 17 H&B. If I find that you are right, I should have 3 years to look through what might be available and an alternate package and try to understand how some other software may work. Heard good things about Personal Capital. Took a look and that one is rejected. Ace will be next on my list.
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splasher, SuperUser

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@Hershey
Saw your other post, glad you ran your test to satisfy yourself.  Over the last six years, I have done a similar test several times answering questions/complaints on this forum, always ends the same way, no network or out of date software prevents importing .QFX files.
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Hershey

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Also ran a test to make sure that I can open my data file without a network and Quicken is not in that command chain also. That one was successful. I am running 2017 H&B US. I guess I will be running it for 3 years, while watching what happens with the subscription service. If they stay with this plan to make the file read only on expiration, I will never buy into that. I'll continue to work without online services. Hope something else surfaces that will do the job I use Quicken to do.

In the meantime, this company has lost my trust. I won't be downloading any updates. The flaws I have found in the program will be with me until after this fiasco is resolved. I do not trust them not to modify the program we have as part of an update to not write to the file once the 3 year period is up.
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Snowman

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Or what if you are traveling somewhere without a viable internet connection and Quicken tries to phone home and can not.  As a photographer I travel to many locations where connection to the internet does not exist or is so slow it is impractical to do so. 

There are not too many viable internet connection onboard a ship in the Drake Passage or in the wilds of Alaska, or the Yukon.
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mshiggins, SuperUser

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The way I see it is I am already in danger of anytime being locked out of my data because of problems with the Intuit ID, now with the subscription model, my data could be made read only at any time because of problems with the Intuit ID.

Quicken is supposed to help me manage my finances, not prevnet me from managing my finances.
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mshiggins, SuperUser

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By the way, I see QPW's other discussion on the subscription model has been closed.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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Yet there are still several questions to be asked related to the original topic...hmmm....
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Quicken Kathryn, Official Rep

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All,
To be clear--the data can still be used, reviewed, and accessed, and you can still do things like run reports.  As for exporting, I'm confirming the formats users would have access to.  

If, at the end of the subscription period, a user opts not to renew, the only difference between the subscription version and the older desktop version is that manual transactions can't be added, and access to online services (like downloading transactions or paying bills through Quicken) will no longer work.

Quicken Kathryn
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Megan Smith

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@Q-Kathryn,

Having just recently upgraded to Quicken Premier 2017 from Quicken Premier 2014 (solely because the ability to download transactions would cease in the 2014 version), I have seen very few improvements in 2017, and several of the problems existing in 2014 (and earlier versions that I had) still exist in the 2017 version.  While I have been resigned to having to pay for an "upgrade" every three years that isn't really an upgrade, just to get the ability to download transactions (and daily stock prices), there is no way that I will pay annually for the service.  It doesn't provide enough value when there are no, or very few, changes from year to year.  And some of the changes make the program worse, such as limiting the choice of font sizes for on-screen display.  I can modify my own spreadsheet in Excel, as I've already been tracking my investments, other assets, and debt that way, so inputting stock/ mutual fund/ ETF prices is not a big deal since I can export that information from my brokerage company.
(Edited)
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Dabindigo

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If this comment wasn't so disturbing I would laugh. What good is the product if you can't add transactions.

This decision is beyond stupid and I will never  move to the subscription version. 

I am on Quicken 2014 and will stay there and will happily add transactions manually until someone develops a viable alternative.
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gmalis1

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Well, in Quicken Inc's mind, you could add transactions manually...provided you pay the subscription price.  

That's their logic...with the bonus of making even more money for their capital investors.  
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Bill Jones

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Question is at what point does Quicken stop authorizing the nonsubscription Q2017 installations to where we can't even open our data file anymore?  Likewise if you stop paying on the subscription how long before you completely locked out of your data?
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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At the very latest, 1 yr from the start of subscription. BUT there are other scenarios that could cause you to lose access. Just read my recent refresher here.

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
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splasher, SuperUser

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@Q-Kathryn,
"the only difference between the subscription version and the older desktop version is that manual transactions can't be added"

At that point, Quicken has been turned into a report generator of OLD, PAST HISTORY, making it useless.

Sad state of affairs if Quicken stays with this business model.
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Spokey

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and a rather poor report generator at that.  I don't see that reporting has gotten significant improvements since the mid 90s.  I'm not exaggerating here, I really think it is true that the DOS based Managing Your Money in the 80s had better reporting than Quicken does today.
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Snowman

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Yes Managing Your Money had better reporting.  I can still access my MYM data files from 1984 to 1999.  The budgeting and cash flow reports were (and still are) worlds better than Quicken decades later.  The budget module was better as well.

Until MYM stopped working when Microsoft went to 32bit, I was still using it to print checks. Lordy, I miss that because MYM would let you adjust every item you wanted to print whereas Quicken only lets you adjust the whole check. I have been using Quicken since the late 80s and have inquired about the ability to print checks many times. I have come to the conclusion that they don't because:

1..It would take a fair amount of coding (and sometimes with the bugs that Quicken has I don't know if they would be capable of it. Anyone remember the menu fiasco where if you went below a certain item in the dropdown, the menu went away?

2.. I may be wrong but they most likely are in cahoots with check vendors.

When I contacted the author of MYM about 5 years ago and asked why he discontinued it, he said he was still using it for himself. 
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NotACPA - QW HBRP 2018, SuperUser

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Vote added.
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Peculiar_Investor

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If this is Quicken's new approach then I wish them luck with it. As a long-time customer from the early MS-DOS days who has upgraded faithfully over the years, I can categorically state that I won't be purchasing this product under this pricing model.

I already find the Intuit ID concept that was introduced to me when I upgraded to Quicken 2016 an annoyance that I tolerate when it periodically pops up. 

A poster previously mentioned the Adobe Lightroom experience. I'm a new user/purchaser of Lightroom and without hesitation I bought the desktop version (one time purchase) rather than the subscription model. I do appreciate that at least Adobe gave me the choice.

I'm encouraged by Quicken's participation in this discussion, hopefully the customer's voice will be heard and our feedback acted upon. 

Regards,
A concern and long-time Quicken customer, who hopes they're not soon an ex-customer. 
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ChicagoDan

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Add my vote to the list of people who are not happy with proposed subscription model.  The data is mine.  Quicken has no business preventing me from editing it.  They are basically holding my data hostage.

I'm sure they reasoned something like this, oh if this were in the cloud it wouldn't be unreasonable for us to block access entirely if the user stopped paying.  That's a fine argument.  But the data isn't in the cloud and if you switched to a product like that I wouldn't sign up.

I've already been considering other ways to manage my finances since I have little faith in Quickens ability to manage anything reliably.  This only makes that decision more urgent.
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wendy.kunz

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Wow! I was just about to go from 2014 to 2017 with an upgrade from Deluxe to Home and Business. This discussion disturbs me.
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Steve K

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I can still use quicken 2006 on windows (without downloads from FI, of course).
(Edited)
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Bill Jones

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Does anybody know the last version of Quicken that will work without having to connect to Intuit to authorize the installation?
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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I believe QW2013 and QM2007. 

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
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Lanka

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I have Qw2017 but it will be my last Quicken if the subscription model is implemented.
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Josef

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What a disturbing wake up call this thread has been!!  Thanks everyone for your comments.

After 25+ years of usinq Quicken, I still have my purchased version of Quicken 2012 (H&B Canada) but I upgraded in 2015 to Quicken WIndows 2015 (H&B Canada) in order to keep my financial quotes updates and bank data downloads.

But I understand 2015 now has the new Intuit UID and Password authorization, which may be problematic next year, regarding being able to manually enter new transactions.

I am thinking of reinstalling QW 2012 in order to be able to keep my manual data entry possible. I am still using Win7 Pro and plan to stick with it for now.

I have some 25 years of data. I am assuming that I will have to start with my old 2012 files and then try to import QIF data or manually enter. I can live without the one step update features if I can continue to enter data manually.

Anybody have any ideas on how to get Quicken 2012 (H&B Canada) data up to date using Quicken 2015 (H&B Canada) date and files after installing 2012?
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Bill Murphey

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This topic should be placed as a "sticky" at the top of each of the Quicken Catagories.

All Quicken users should be aware, particularly with the recent QM2017 and OS Sierra " upgrades".
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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 (2) what happens if a user terminates their subscription? ... likely to not be answered until much later this year, 
The answer to that question HAS been answered and the current answer turns out to be most displeasing!
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jacobs, SuperUser

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No, it's only been answered in a preliminary way. Canada is an experiment. It's their current intention to follow the same course with the next US releases as well, but user feedback may still alter the final course. They could, for instance, relent on manual entry, but still stick with the subscription model. We simply won't know for certain until it's time for release and Quicken makes it official. Meanwhile, users expressing their legitimate concerns might help convince management to tweak their plans.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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Yes we know they have stated it is a supposed experiment...but it is all suppositions... with Quicken's track record, for all we know it is a lot of political double-talk. What we DO know is what has been published publicly; no supposition but fact.

The current stated published facts are: with the subscription model "you'll no longer be able to download transactions, or add manual transactions." and "All future Quicken products will be subscription products." These are the only credible, official, and legally binding statements that matter.

Locking users personal data is never a good idea, especially financial data, often painstakingly collected.

But yes, I agree...we need to work to convince them to change these plans.
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Cheryl Desnoyer

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And this would mean that those of us in Canada who have been forced into the subscription model have had to agree to have our data locked if we don't continue to pay the subscription fee.  It makes me pretty angry that people seem to think it is easy to push Canadians around.

Unless you have read the Memo from the CEO, it says Quicken Home and Business will be $US89.99 PER YEAR.

Good luck trying to sign me up to that. I don't need a business version, just Home. If they stick with that and not breakup Home and Business, with the Home version maybe $US19.99 a year, I am out of here after 30+ years.

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Patrick McKeag

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I've used Quicken since 1991 under DOS. I would never submit to this form of extortion, so if my current version stops working I'll have to convert to something else.
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jacobs, SuperUser

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Yes, it's problematic that for all the complaining and posturing on this thread, there are only (at the time I'm writing this) 52 votes. It's early, of course -- word of the subscription plan has just emerged in the past few days -- but a several dozen votes on this site... even if the votes here double... represent only a tiny fraction of all Quicken users.
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Norman Buchignani

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True, but who even knew this debate was happening before 2017 came out? Who knows now? I suspect few Quicken Cdn users ever consult this site unless something is broken, if then.
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Bylo Selhi

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Yes, it's problematic that for all the complaining and posturing on this thread, there are only (at the time I'm writing this) 52 votes. It's early, of course -- word of the subscription plan has just emerged in the past few days -- but a several dozen votes on this site... even if the votes here double... represent only a tiny fraction of all Quicken users.
It's not only early days but also the "or add manual transactions" is only in a FAQ that's accessible when you have Q2017 in your cart and are about to checkout. So technically they've notified Canadian uses but in actual fact they've hidden it where few are likely to see it.

Given that level of obscurity (or sneakiness, if you prefer) it's amazing that there are as many as 50 votes so far. If this was done intentionally then Quicken will be able to report that so few Canadians complained that it's not an issue, then use that "logic" to do the same to US customers.

It's our responsibility to spread this news and the implications as far and wide as possible. Ordinary customers who naively buy Q2017 in Canada aren't going to see it on Quicken's website. And US customers aren't going to find out until it's too late. Only we can set them straight now.
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Marc

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Agreed.  I saw in the fine print verbiage about a purchasing a subscription only entitling you to use Quicken for 12 months.  That seemed odd and let me to "then what?" .  I came here, tried to comment and could not.  Then I kept reading and saw your notice to Vote at the top.  Tried voting and it prompted again to set up this account.  This is a big enough deal that I did take the time to create an account to VOTE and comment further for others.

Just a shame the scam that Quicken is trying to pull and burying it so deeply that you need to really pay attention.  Very greasy Quicken, very greasy.

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Mark Bajorek

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I have also been using Quicken since the early 90s.  I've been satisfied, although not thrilled, with its improvements up until a few years ago, when it seemed to stall and not keep pace with modern software.  The 2017 version has me confused with all the password requirements and bill statement enhancements that are really unnecessary, and detract more than help.  A yearly subscription would only be justified if Quicken is truly improved to modern standards and kept up to date every year.
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Levoy H, SuperUser

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I also date back to the DOS days.  I'm pretty sure if you could search really old posts you would find where I predicted the subscription model a long time ago as Intuit/Quicken seems to have taken a lot of cues from Microsoft over the years.  This is just the latest.

If the Quicken model copies Microsoft, then my response to Quicken will copy my response to Microsoft - NEVER.  

Being totally dependent on a connection to the cloud to use an application I find critical is simply not acceptable.  My wife and I travel a fair amount and we often find ourselves in locales where internet access ranges from suspect to none.  

If Quicken does go this route I've got a hunch it just may finally motivate a competitor.  I will use the last desktop version of Q until that happens.  
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Snowman

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A complete personal finance program does not need to be abstruse and complex.  It is only because Quicken has made it so.  The accounting should not even enter into the conversation because it should be transparent to the user who lets face it most of us just want the program to work.  The accounting aspect just happen.

You writes checks, use credit cards, make investments, download transactions, create budgets, process tax returns and create reports.  No need to make this complex.

Quicken has created a massive Rube Goldberg machine where literally one feature is introduced and then another feature is introduced that lays waste to the first feature and on and on.

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gmalis1

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This may be all part of the unfortunate "model" that Quicken (Intuit) used for years...because in order to get people to purchase Quicken again and again they felt they were required to add new features...most of which are petty, useless or worse, just don't work reliably enough.

How many of us have gone to the Quicken website and see that cute little graphic of "What's new in Quicken 20XX"?  And then you get the cute little blue marks "New" and the cute little marks "Improved".

How else in the world would Quicken market their product to get users to continually purchase their product year after year after year if it's the same old stale product.

So Quicken would add stuff (garbage) to the software until it's so bloated and convoluted one action winds up affecting lots of code...and not in a good way.

THIS is the reasoning for the subscription model.  Get everyone to the same version (I'm still guessing there will be NO Quicken 2018, just a version called Quicken), have them subscribe, lock them in to the product by freezing their data and basically forcing them to renew and then providing NOTHING new to add to Quicken.  There would be ZERO incentive for Quicken TO add anything new.  They've got their customer base right where they want them. 

Because, let's face it, there is NOTHING new to add to Quicken.  This would be palatable if they can get their act together and make Quicken one pretty "tight" software without all the bugs and workarounds.  At least for a while.  Because IF that ship is righted (and that's a HUGE "if") then customers will eventually be disgruntled down the road because there IS nothing new.  And it will then feel like just a huge money grab by Quicken Inc because frankly, they will hold ALL the cards and the Quicken subscribers will have zero recourse but to continue paying the Quicken "ransom" or just change to a different software product.  
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Bylo Selhi

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Because, let's face it, there is NOTHING new to add to Quicken.  This would be palatable if they can get their act together and make Quicken one pretty "tight" software without all the bugs and workarounds.  
+1 

Quicken has now become such a Rube Goldberg monstrosity that adding new features often introduces bugs in existing, basic functionality. So not only are the new features generally gratuitous, stuff that most users neither want nor need, adding them creates problems for people who just want to use the base product. Then to make matters even worse, the cost of adding those new features only serves to divert resources away from maintaining the base product and ensuring that it continues to work flawlessly.
Because IF that ship is righted (and that's a HUGE "if") then customers will eventually be disgruntled down the road because there IS nothing new.  And it will then feel like just a huge money grab by Quicken Inc because frankly, they will hold ALL the cards and the Quicken subscribers will have zero recourse but to continue paying the Quicken "ransom" or just change to a different software product.  
Actually I'd be quite happy to pay a reasonable subscription price to pay for what in the software industry is termed a "functionally-stabilized product." I resent paying more to get stuff I don't want/need that also breaks some of the other stuff that's worked for years.

Quicken's marketing thrust could then emphasize the reliability of the product with a comprehensive set of features that have been proven over many years.

They should also emphasize that even without adding major functions the annual subscription fee pays for important benefits like the following (off the top of my head)...
• Transaction downloads
• Support for new releases of Windows/iOS. (This is a benefit even if Quicken doesn't have to make any changes.)
• Ongoing bug fixes. No complex software like Quicken is ever truly bug-free.
• Small functional improvements and enhancements.
• Updates to reflect changes in tax and accounting rules.
• Maintenance to stuff like categories, expense types, asset classes, etc.
• Support forums like this one.
I'm sure any competent marketing person can add many more bullets to this list without having to resort to some big new feature no one wants and/or over-the-top bovine scat.
(Edited)
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Earl Schultz

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I'm a very long time user and currently on 2014 version, service due to end in a couple of weeks.  I have decided that I won't upgrade.  I was upgrading every 3 years for about $90 and now that is the expected annual fee, a 300% "small" increase.  MS Office 365 is about the same price for so much more, and it works.  Quicken has failed to fix a long list of bugs and errors that I sent them years ago in writing.  A simple example, print out your capital gains and you will see one column heading "Gross Proceeds".  It is not Gross Proceeds but rather "Net Proceeds" because they subtract the commissions in the sale.  That is misleading and wrong.  Easy to fix but they never did.

I will look for a replacement but until something comes along I will do manual stock updates and I never really needed bank account or credit card online access since I prefer manual anyway.

I tried voting but there is no choice...only "Vote" and "Follow".  No other choice and I don't want to click something that misleads my opinion.  Quicken is finished for me.  Thanks for not much in the way of upgrades.  The old version I have (2014) does not even work properly on my new HD monitors.  I can't adjust the column widths to see all the information I need.  Crap, no thanks.
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Bylo Selhi

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I tried voting but there is no choice...only "Vote" and "Follow".  No other choice and I don't want to click something that misleads my opinion. 
Clicking the "Vote" button means that you agree with the title of this thread, i.e. that "Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying."
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Michael Lopes

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I am a long time Quicken user, upgrading every couple of years. . I will NEVER use their subscription service. Ace Money is a good alternative that I have found. 
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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@Peculiar_Investor
BTW, A summary of all the issues discussed has been captured here:
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencommunity/topics/quicken-inc-should-reverse-its-decision-to-chang...

if you want to use that link.

(If you find this reply helpful, please be sure to click "Like", so others will know, thanks.)
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Christian

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I am a Quicken's user for the last 24- 25 years.
I was looking to buy Quicken home and busines 2017 to upgrade from my 2014 version as this later one will not support quotes downloading by the end of May 2017.
When I realized that the 2017 version has an annual fee of $89.99 and would be only an old database if the fees are not renewed, I checked first for the 2016 version... which is no longer available.
I, then, decided to look at alternatives.
I found AceMoney. I downloaded the 30 day trial version.
I imported some QIF files and entered manually some other datas.
I find it, for myself, a very good alternative at a fraction of the cost ($39.99).
It takes into account many currencies, give access to most of the Canadian banks  and quotes updating is fast and reliable.
I definitely will get rid of Quicken (will keep my 2014 version as my historical database).
I would have kept Quicken if the annual fees would have been lower. It is really not a software  that commands such a high annual fee for what it offers (at least, for my needs).
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Rod Hassler

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I am a Quicken user since 1991.
While there are advantages to the subscription model, I was shocked when I saw the rate of $89CDN/year.
Mr. Dunn spoke of Microsoft, so lets have a look at that:
.       MS Office 2016 Pro $450 CDN to purchase
.       1 year subscription: $70 CDN

.   Quicken H & B approx. $150 CDN
.     1 year subscription   $89 CDN
Now if Quicken wants to go Subscription and uses Microsoft as justification, then the correct annual subscription would be (70 X 150) / 450 = 23.34 / year.
At that price even I might be tempted.
I have to wonder if Quicken has decided to hold it's users hostage, thinking they will pay exorbitant fees due to the time invested in Quicken over the years.
I simply will not pay the fees as they are now, opting instead to enter credit card, bank, and stock data manually. This frees me up to look at other software, whether it can download online transactions or not.
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Jeffrey Wilens

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Not fair to compare the subscription price to the purchase price when office is $450 and Quicken is $40.  Just compare the annual cost:
Office 365 Home  $80 US per year.
Adobe Acrobat Standard DC $156 per year
If Quicken comes in around $80-90 per year US that would be reasonable considering how often Quicken is used.
Not in my book would that be reasonable.
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Hershey

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There I was off exploring for what options may be available and I find this right here on the Quicken Community.


...I currently use Finance Works with my bank which includes bill pay for free. 1.) What benefit to me to purchase Quicken... 

Posted 8 months ago


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...
First off there is no way to import your data from Finance Works to Quicken.  Note Quicken is now owned by Quicken Inc instead of Intuit, but it really doesn't matter, Finance Works never provided any system for exporting data to outside programs (probably on purpose, see one reasons for using Quicken below).
 
Other reasons that might appeal (some people dislike), Quicken is a desktop application and the data file is local...  Emphasized for effect

I guess Quicken Inc doesn't agree.
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Pine Man

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Hershey

If you are looking for alternatives to try out Banktivity imports data from all versions of Quicken Mac up to and including 2017. I don't think it is as good as Quicken but there is a new version due out in April and no talk of subscription - yet.
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RickO, SuperUser

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Looked at the Banktivity website. It looks as though the direct connect download feature is in fact a subscription service.
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smayer97 (QM2007, CDN user since '92), SuperUser

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Let's get things straight...the current Quicken model for other products IS a subscription-based model already, at least for the connectivity part of the product...It simply lasts up to 3.5 yrs from the date of the original release of a version. So that part is not really new, other than it is now an annual one.

What IS changing is the subscription is now for the ENTIRE product, in such a way that you lose the ability to use the product locally to maintain your data.

This is a model which makes sense for a purely online service but does NOT make sense for a desktop version...one of the reasons users opt for such a product.

All Quicken would have to do is get rid of the read-only restriction and users would be MUCH happier.

Of course, there is still the issue of the occasional "log in" that I think needs addressing too, but IMHO is secondary, though still important.
(Edited)
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Ed

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Banktivity has an optional subscription service to download from smaller banks. Direct Download OFX does not require subscription.
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Hershey

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(1) The subscription aspect doesn't bother assuming reasonable pricing.
(2) All of my critical data being on their servers that they can prevent me from updating does bother me.
(3) Quicken Inc's ability to deliver a reliable communication link to FIs bothers me.
(4) Quicken Inc's lack of ability to release an Intuit ID system that actually functions REALLY BOTHERS ME.
(5) Quicken Inc's lack of ability or priority to resolve these issues and other bugs within the program MAY BE THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMEL'S BACK. Starting serious investigation into alternatives.
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splasher, SuperUser

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@bcsteves  I second gmalis1's statement, quit spreading the cloud rumor, there has been NO information published by Quicken to warrant it.

Also, to be perfectly truthful about it, Quicken is already on a subscription policy, it just lasts for three years rather than the one year imposed in the Canadian 2017 product.

The onerous part of the new policy is the reduced capability mode that puts the data file in read-only mode if not renewed.
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gmalis1

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The second onerous part of the new policy IS the annual subscription...because there are no details as to pricing, which will certainly be more expensive for all users.  
The letter presented from the CEO significantly omits any plans about the USA version of Quicken and just acknowledges the Canadian version.
Why doesn't he give us the directions of the USA version?
Hopefully, the USA version plans are still up in the air.
Splasher,
"Also, to be perfectly truthful about it, Quicken is already on a subscription policy, it just lasts for three years rather than the one year imposed in the Canadian 2017 product.'

Currently, I think someone is allowed to use an expired USA version of Quicken without their local data being held hostage for a subscription i.e. Quicken can still be used with manual transaction entries.
(Edited)
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Bylo Selhi

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Currently, I think someone is allowed to use an expired USA version of Quicken without their local data being held hostage for a subscription i.e. Quicken can still be used with manual transaction entries.
It's still a [three-year] subscription if you want to download transactions and/or security quotes. Since afterwards you can continue to use the product manually, think of it as a subscription to use online features and continue to get support.

By contrast the situation in Canada starting with Quicken 2017 is still a subscription. But the difference is that (1) it's now an annual subscription, (2) the annual cost to people who used to renew every three years has been increased substantially and (3) it's now for using Quicken to update your database, whether you do it online or just manually.

People on this thread have complained about all of these differences but it seems to me that the strongest objection has been to (3)... no more manual updates. So far Quicken has not explained why they felt it was necessary to resort to this measure to strong-arm customers into renewing their subscriptions.

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