Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying

  • 258
  • Idea
  • Updated 1 day ago
  • Under Consideration
Quicken Inc has put out the Quicken 2017 Canadian version "testing" a new subscription business model.  The subscription is for one year and if the user doesn't pay to extend the subscription at the end of the year their data files become READ-ONLY.

They can't even add any new transactions manually.

And there is no way to "buy" Quicken using the old business model.

If this is left unchallenged they will most likely use this model for the US version next year.

People should vote on this "idea" if they are against Quicken Inc using this business model.
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 283,122 Points 100k badge 2x thumb

Posted 3 weeks ago

  • 258
Photo of Nick T

Nick T

  • 442 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
I've just read Mr. Dunn's reasoning for the subscription model. And quite frankly, it's laughable that he considers Quicken on the same level as the major players in the software industry.

Microsoft? Their support, answers to bugs and software patches and updates are second to none. Even they have stand alone versions. But to say Quicken is on the same level as Microsoft's software? Please. Office is the predominant force in business. Quicken is not. Quicken for what it is appeals to a niche marketplace.

Other software companies mentioned? All powerhouses. Why doesn't Mr. Dunn mention the niche product companies?

Mr. Dunn has signed Quickens death certificate. Especially if he believes that in its current form it cannot easily be outdone by other software that's out there. That simply isn't true.

So as my final thought, Mr. Dunn needs to understand what quicken is and reverse this decision. Should he not, I bid the Quicken I once knew, a fond farewell.
Photo of Prof Quill

Prof Quill

  • 282 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
Wow. Interesting. Shocking. Sad. I went to Quicken to see if there was any discussion of a 'new' bug I've been annoyed with in Quicken 2017, and happened to stumble into this discussion. I read through all 101 (and counting) replies, what is patently obvious is that, unless I missed one, there is not a single non-Quicken reply fully supporting this potential new plan (I'm in the US so safe so far for my 2017 product).

I'll not rehash what has been said dozens of times, only replying here to add to the chorus of discontent. What I find particularly odious is the concept of, I guess, legal ransomware [only legal because it'll be in the license terms], holding our purchased product functionality hostage to an unknowable annual fee.

I understand the idea of charging in some way for the online update functionality, I'm sure it takes plenty of Quicken's resources to keep up with the changing requirements of hundreds of financial institutions, and in fact have considered this feature to be a relative bargain, even if I do have to upgrade every 3 years.

And it is also true, even if my Quicken product would remain fully functional but for online updating, I'd probably be willing to pay a fee for this service. How much? Well, as has been pointed out, it is common to find discounts for the product, without getting specific, I did pay under $36 for Deluxe, so on a 3-year cycle that's just a buck a month. Very acceptable considering I'm getting an updated product (even if the actual new feature content is minimal). And I'd gladly pay that kind of money per year -- but the prices floated here are certainly way higher, and don't see much chance that discounts could be had. And of course there's no lock-in for the future so who knows how high it can go?

It is for this sort of reason I resist subscribing for pay TV, with the exorbitant box-rental fees, that increase at rates far beyond inflation and not protected as part of any contract. That's another rant but something I see happening with a subscription model.

So, just as Quicken charges for online backup (which is hardly necessary considering all the free backup/storage options available), why not have a separate subscription fee for the online updating part? And lower the price for the actual product, which would be offline only unless you subscribe to the online bit.

I'm not sure I understand why Quicken needs to support 7 versions in Canada, in the US there are just 3 years-worth to support. And concerning support, if you produce a bug-free quality product, it shouldn't matter how many customers you have, so you wouldn't need substantial extra revenue to maintain a quality product for 1 or 10 million customers, within reason.

Finally, to put a cap on it, Mr. Dunn does say the subscription model is becoming more common, and guess what, I hate it. I'm a buy it, not rent it, kinda guy and I cringe at each new attempt to make me pay uncontrolled increasing monthly rates until the day I die.
Photo of gmalis1

gmalis1, SuperUser

  • 130,380 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
In Canada, Quicken supports year versions 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017.  They also have two "flavors"...Cash Manager and Home & Business.  So, that's eight versions they have to program and support.

In the US it's even more complicated.  Figure the four year versions, plus Starter Edition, Deluxe, Premier, Home & Business and Rental Property Manager.  That's 20 versions to support.

I would be all in for a "generic" Quicken product...meaning NO year version.  Just call it Quicken.  And update as necessary.  I also see the advantage of having everyone eventually on the same year version, so to speak.

But cutting off manual transactions after the subscription period ends (or when Quicken goes out of business, which it will) is unacceptable.  And once again, since there will be no discounting of prices because only Quicken will sell subscriptions, pricing will be ridiculous.

Already in Canada, they are seeing a 300% increase in the cost of the subscription compared to purchasing the product.  And of course, there is no price control or guarantee that the subscription price won't skyrocket later.

Quicken Inc needs to realize that restricting their product by eliminating manual entries after subscription termination is suicide.

They also need to have a tiered pricing system (mentioned previously) whereas new users pay a significantly higher price while continuous subscribers pay a maintenance fee substantially lower to continue.

Most users have felt this way for a long time.  Instead of having to repurchase Quicken to continue download services, we all would rather just pay a subscription to continue downloads with the version we are currently using.  

In this case, Quicken would in essence be doing just that.  One base product with an annual subscription to download.  But not the ridiculous fee that Canadian users are paying.  And take the elimination of manual entries post-subscription right off the table.

And finally, what we all need to see is an improvement in Quicken's quality overall and reliability of connections to financial institutions.  
(Edited)
Photo of Prof Quill

Prof Quill

  • 282 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
In my previous post, I mentioned 7 versions as I thought I read, you say that in the US there could be the equivalent of 20 versions to support. 3 vs 4 years perhaps, but I wouldn't consider the different feature levels a separate version, it's the same code base with various features disabled depending on how much you pay. Notice that you can add that functionality to your existing version just by heaving a new slug of virtual cash at Quicken. Point is, if there is a bug in Quicken Starter, it's probably the same bug in Property Manager so takes no extra support effort.

That said, it is in any company's best interest to support fewer versions, certainly that's Microsoft's intent going forward with Windows 10. Someday there will be just Windows. No separate versions (other than the feature enhancements). And I think that's a good thing. As long as Windows doesn't go to a home-user subscription model, consider that.
Photo of Prof Quill

Prof Quill

  • 282 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
Hey, here's another idea that just sprung into my fertile brain, how about having the update feature separate, as I proposed, but keep it free WITH an ad supplied at every update? If you want to eliminate the ad, subscribe to the ad-free premium version. That's certainly a business model used by many companies.

That said, I'm pretty tired of the constant bombardment of ads in general on the Internet, but seeing just one discreet ad per download wouldn't bother me, and if they are relevant, maybe even useful. Look at that revenue stream from millions of daily updates... think of that, Mr. Dunn, it's made a lot of companies wealthy beyond imagination. Then you can use that income to support and improve the product. BTW, if you adopt this model, I'll send you my PayPal address so I can get a royalty payment ;-).
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 1,896 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
Quicken is already ad-ware. FI branding in the OSU window, Portfolio X-Ray by Morningstar, Zillow, LifeYield, USNews and World Report, the Newport Group (?). I forget who sponsors the Credit Score. They need everyone on the latest release to satisfy the terms of next year's branding deal. In ten years Quicken will look like a race car at the Daytona 500. If Quicken's around that long.
Photo of jacobs

jacobs, SuperUser

  • 57,666 Points 50k badge 2x thumb
@Prof Quill: Your proposal would mean Quicken needs to go into the advertising business, selling ads to generate revenue. It's a completely different business than developing personal finance software. Ads don't just happen. Google isn't a tech company that happens to have ads; it's very much an advertising company.) I also doubt ad revenue could replace users paying for the software. At current rates for some online ads, Quicken might need to show you in the neighborhood of 25,000 ads to replace a $50 upgrade fee. Or put another way, if you download transactions once per day, every day of the year and see one ad each time, that might generate about 50 cents in revenue in a year -- off by nearly two orders of magnitude from what Quicken needs to stay afloat. 
Photo of Allwest

Allwest

  • 192 Points 100 badge 2x thumb
Microsoft did this for office products but allowed us to pay for a non-subscription version at a higher price.Perhaps an option like that would alleviate some concerns. I would prefer to have a choice rather than have a subscription model rammed down my throat.
Photo of mmcwilliams

mmcwilliams

  • 180 Points 100 badge 2x thumb
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Quicken 2017 Canada ripoff.

Quicken 2017 Canada ripoff. Warning. If you purchase in Canada you will be given a 1 YEAR subscription, and then after that begin made to pay for it again, again, and again. in  the US its 3 years. Intuit has now become an address for royalties, nothing more. I REFUSE to rent software that has nothing new to offer. 
Photo of gmalis1

gmalis1, SuperUser

  • 130,550 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
First off, Intuit doesn't own Quicken any more.  It's owned by an investment capital group...so you know right away their primary motivation for purchasing Quicken is to make as much money as possible in order to recoup their investment.  

Second, this won't be unique to Quicken Canada.  Canada's the "test market" so to speak.  The subscription model will be coming to the US, most likely in it's Quicken 2018 version.
Photo of rads

rads

  • 528 Points 500 badge 2x thumb
I'd be willing to go along with a subscription model if:

1. The cost were reasonable—no more than $100/year.

2. The Mac and Windows versions had feature parity.

3. Quicken kept up with bug fixes and provided periodic feature updates.

4. At the end of the subscription, I could still edit and enter data manually—only in-app downloads and bill pay were deactivated.
Photo of smayer97

smayer97, SuperUser

  • 150,410 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
And there was no interruption to maintaining the data file if there is a problem with the validation of the Intuit ID (the user supposedly gets prompted periodically).
Photo of Sparky

Sparky

  • 174 Points 100 badge 2x thumb
I'm definitely not liking this proposed subscription model.  I am using Quicken H&B 2015 and tend to update every two to three years.  I only use connected services for stock prices.  I would be willing to go subscription if and only if I could still use the program manually and only lose the connected services.

If you look at Microsoft's model for Office for only a little more money you can install the software on multiple devices and continue to use it at a reduced level if you cancel your subscription.  Imagine if Microsoft said all you could do is look at your files and print them and not be able to edit anything.

Considering what you get from Microsoft 365 Business for $126/year the Quicken program should be priced around $30/year.  I will continue to use my H&B 2015 and look for alternatives unless Intuit reconsiders their proposed subscription model. 
Photo of gmalis1

gmalis1, SuperUser

  • 130,550 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
I'd like to see pricing where initial users pay a much higher price to get on board initially and current users who subscribe pay substantially (and I MEAN substantially) less as an incentive to keep renewing.

Those that let their subscription lapse after 30-60 days would have to subscribe anew at the initial purchase price.

Also, I have Quicken H&B but have no further use for it.  Would I be able to "downgrade" to a lower version at an even lesser price?
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,064 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
I'd like to see pricing where initial users pay a much higher price to get on board initially and current users who subscribe pay substantially (and I MEAN substantially) less as an incentive to keep renewing.
See my comments upthread (near the bottom of page 4) from yesterday.

Nevertheless the real show-stopper for me and most people who've posted here is the crippling to read-only when the subscription lapses.
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
I agree. The crippling of the software is what will cause most loyal users to jump ship. This is more important even than the issue of pricing.
Photo of gmalis1

gmalis1, SuperUser

  • 130,550 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Pretty sure it's a combination of both.

But first and foremost is the crippling of the software.  Pricing has to be second.  
Photo of smayer97

smayer97, SuperUser

  • 150,410 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
And let us not lose sight of the need to call home periodically to validate the INTUIT ID. What if servers are down at a critical time? What if there are internet problems (while at home or away)? What if Quicken shutters its doors?

Basically, anything or process that interferes with user's ability to maintain their own data should be unacceptable.
Photo of Nick T

Nick T

  • 442 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
The only reason why Canada was chosen for this subscription model is because starting with the US would most definitely have been suicide.


Quicken has always treated the Canadian version as an after thought. All you have to look at is the patch releases. 26 in the US for 2016... and only 3 in Canada.


They really don't care about the Canadian business. For all we know they are doing this to justify closing the Canadian arm down and only concentrate on the US version.


They brought the mobile app to Canada this year. Yet it doesn't work with 2016 even though the installation of 2016 says it will, complete with graphics and everything.


They just want to piss Canadians off. And they've done so.


The decision will never be reversed in Canada. Yet it will never see the light of day in the US.


Let's take a look at what's new in 2017. Nothing really stands out to warrant an upgrade from a previous version. Yet you'll have to pay 90 bucks every year for no benefit.


Dunn points to Symantec and their subscription model. How can you even compare the two? It's a security company. It constantly updates itself in a daily, even hourly basis. That's the same for mostly all antivirus and malware companies. They can justify the subscription model. They can be seen working to keep you safe on a daily basis.


Quickens updates are few and far between. Almost non existent. Yet they want you to be on the same subscription model. For what exactly? A 90 dollar mobile app? Non existent updates? New features that don't appeal to anyone?


No justification for this whatsoever.


Being comfortable with Quicken is the only reason people have stuck with it instead of moving on. But this subscription model will force people to get used to something else. Like breaking up with your girlfriend or starting a new life in a new country. Uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it.


Mr. Dunn... Give your head a shake.
(Edited)
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,644 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
@Nick T, You are very uninformed about a few things:
Quicken has always treated the Canadian version as an after thought. All you have to look at is the patch releases. 26 in the US for 2016... and only 3 in Canada.

Believe or not in some ways 3 versions are better than 10.  And it is 10 not 26 patch releases for Quicken 2016 US.  The Canadian release is put out after the release of the US version and several patches.  So for instance in the case of Quicken 2017 Canadian R1 is equivalent to R4 of US.  The same goes for other patches as in the US version gets patches during the "patching cycle", and they wait on the Canadian version until the patching cycle is basically done and then push all those changes into the next Canadian patch release.  There is a possibility that some minor fixes or missed fixes don't make it into the Canadian version, but in truth at least most of them are there.  And it is the US customers that are playing guinea pig for the Canadian releases.

They brought the mobile app to Canada this year. Yet it doesn't work with 2016 even though the installation of 2016 says it will, complete with graphics and everything.

Well what you don't realize here is that Quicken mobile has been in the US product since Quicken 2013.  So the references to Quicken 2016 including the screenshots are for the US versions.  So their great "crime" here is that they didn't update the documentation/screenshot for either the US or Canadian Quicken 2017 versions.

There is no possible way that Quicken 2016 Canadian can work with mobile because the code wasn't put in it.  Poor documentation, but never have they claimed that Quicken 2016 Canadian could use Quicken Mobile.
Photo of gmalis1

gmalis1, SuperUser

  • 130,380 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
@NickT

You should be glad they just released the mobile version of Quicken in Canada.  Because it's awful.  IF you get it to work (IF being the operative word) after a while it just stops working...or you get corrupted data...or nothing syncs.

It's a disaster...along with Online Bills...and the Credit Report.  Anything that has to do with outside servers that are pulling information into Quicken is just plain awful.

Been a Quicken user since the DOS days and I have active data since 1990.  The base functions are still the same.  They work relatively well (my financial institutions all use Direct Connect).  And stock price downloads usually work well.

Aside from that, this is a disaster.

People wanted Zillow integration?  Really?  Credit Score reporting?  When you can get that info from about 20 other sources for free?  Online Bills that never pull the correct info...if it works at all?  Express Web Connect that is unreliable, awful and getting worse every day.  

THIS is the Quicken we have in 2016 and 2017.  A lousy unreliable product with features that don't work.

They should be ashamed of themselves.  And now they want us to pay even more?  I don't and probably won't.  
Photo of Laird Perkins

Laird Perkins

  • 630 Points 500 badge 2x thumb
Yep...@gmalis1 well said. Since 2014 version, I use manual entry of Quicken only. I experience no issues with my Quicken data files. I won't touch the mobile app (which is a joke in my opinion). If they made it an updated version of Pocket Quicken and allowed me to sync my mobile app file with my desktop file via something like a USB connection as opposed to the cloud Quicken server synch, I'd most likely use it.

The other features like Zillow, credit score info, portfolio X-ray...don't care to have them! Any online connection between Quicken and some outside server whether operated by Quicken Inc., Intuit or some other third party invariably and eventually seems to bring on issues risking corruption of one's data file.
(Edited)
Photo of Nick T

Nick T

  • 442 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
@QPW... No, I'm not misinformed.  As far as releases I may have read an R26 incorrectly but the context of my statement stands... if you see the quicken community, certain things are fixed with patch releases, while the last patch release here in Canada was nothing more than an addition to tell you to upgrade to the 2017 model.  Nothing has really changed.

As for the mobile app, The original install made no mention of the app, no graphic no mention of mobile alerts in One Step Update.  The R3 version of the software now has this graphic and One Step Update feature. Google play says now available for customers in Canada and states it will work for versions 2014 and up I believe (maybe 2013).  Even when you install quicken it asks if you want to use Quicken with Mobile support, and further, on one-step update it will give you an option to manage and choose which accounts you'd like to sync with the cloud in order to work with mobile, yet no accounts are listed when you select manage.

So no, its not just poor documentation.  None of what I said was available prior to the R3 Release... at least not that I remember, and I have blown away my computer a few times and reinstalled Quicken as part of that routine.

Whether the app works properly or not is not an issue.. Canada has always been an afterthought.
Photo of Bill

Bill

  • 110 Points 100 badge 2x thumb

I followed the link to the CEO's mail and sent him this same message. I urge everyone to do the same.

It is simple...I have used quicken, quickbooks and quicktax for as long as I can remember. I kept every quick tax disc for better than 20 years. I will NEVER pay a subscription fee for this product. I won't do it for MS Office or Adobe or even subs for news media. There are too many open source options for it all.

Don't try pull the wool over our eyes. This is not for us, but for your profit margin. Once hooked you will continue price increases while reducing your overhead. Thanx for the heads up with the banner to 2017 when I open my quicken as it made me aware of what you were doing.

Now I will actively pursue another option for all my financial needs. I recently cut my cable sub way back because it was too expensive. I am learning to live without it and we will learn to live without Quicken. Don't be a lemming following other firms down this path or our greed will be your undoing.

Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,982 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Well frankly Bill, for most people the problem isn't the subscription.

The main things people are complaining about are making it so that people can't continue using their data file in a manual mode (no new transaction entry) if the subscription lapses, the price of the subscription (which we don't even really know for the US version), and any thing that hinders using it offline for extended periods of time.

Frankly given the CEO's response to the "first phase" of this complaint (as in the title of this thread), I see the standard "Quicken" response.  It has been my experience that once Quicken Inc (and Intuit before them) decides on something trying to change their minds is like trying to change a freight train's direction.

And given that, the Quicken customers will be lucky if they get the change so that their data doesn't go into "reduced functionality mode" if the subscription lapses, and maybe a reduction in the subscription price.  Anything past that in my opinion is going to be close to a miracle.

I also believe that the US Quicken customers have been "skating" for a very long time.  Waiting for extreme discounts, like $30 for Quicken Deluxe, and then not buying another version for 3 years, and then coming in here and complaining that their online services are being cut off and they have to pay for Quicken again.  Or the "loyal customers" that come in and complain that their 20 year old version of Quicken doesn't run on the newest operating system.

I don't think people have any idea how expense maintaining downloading of transactions is.

And for the people that don't use online services for whatever reason?
Well frankly there is nothing stopping them from just using the version of Quicken they have and stop "upgrading" which they say doesn't give them anything anyways.
Or of course use something else.

The whole product idea "personal desktop finances" is a dying industry, and the best Quicken Inc can do in my opinion is find a way to keep it on life support until the people using it die.  The average age of someone using Quicken is probably 50 years old.  It is going the way of writing checks.

Of course Quicken Inc is looking for ways to keep their product alive by trying to attract younger people, but I think that is pretty much a losing battle.  There are just too many other "real time" solutions out there, and more coming online all the time.
And those people don't have the fear of being online.
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,064 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
> Or the "loyal customers" that come in and complain that their 20 year old version of Quicken doesn't run on the newest operating system.

Some, yes. I'm on Q15.

I'm quite happy to pay for a subscription at a reasonable rate. Perhaps $30 is too low. But $100 is too high. I'm open to compromise. Is Quicken?

> The whole product idea "personal desktop finances" is a dying industry... It is going the way of writing checks.

There's nothing wrong with milking a dying cash cow until it's dry. But to paraphrase an old adage about taxation (and mix metaphors while doing so), the art is in plucking the most feathers from the goose with the least amount of hissing. Quicken's not even close.

But even so, as we (almost all) agree, the main issues here are (a) the crippling to read-only when a subscription lapses and (b) the dependency on a QuickenID/Internet connection to use the product. Ease those restrictions, Mr Dunn, and the subscription price will be a lot easier to swallow.
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,982 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Just to clarify.  I was saying that there are people that have paid $30 every 3 years.  Or if they didn't get that great deal maybe $50 for every 3 years.  So anywhere from $10 to about $17 a year, and they still would come by at the end of the 3 years and complain that their online services were being cut off.
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,050 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
I don't think people have any idea how expense maintaining downloading of transactions is.
According to Jim Del Favero, current product manager at Personal Capital, when he was Quicken product manager in the late-oughts, Intuit spent over a million bucks a year just to download stock quotes and other fund data:

https://www.quora.com/Intuit-forces-users-of-Quicken-to-upgrade-their-product-by-discontinuing-on-a-...#
Photo of smayer97

smayer97, SuperUser

  • 150,410 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
@QPW 

And for the people that don't use online services for whatever reason?Well frankly there is nothing stopping them from just using the version of Quicken they have and stop "upgrading" which they say doesn't give them anything anyways.
Actually there is one thing stopping them and that is the requirement of other software what eventually force the upgrade of the OS. Case in point is that both Chrome and Firefox have stopped releasing updates for older OSes, e.g. Mac OS 10.8 or older. So eventually, users may have to upgrade their OS, which would eventually force upgrading Quicken at some point. 

And in my case, it was the opposite...Quicken prevented me from upgrading my OS. QM2007 LC had a bug that forced me to continue to use the PPC version that only runs on Mac OS 10.6.8 or older. It took 4 years to finally have the issue acknowledged and addressed only this past June, 2016. 

This leads me to the other related issue of forced upgrades. Newer versions often have issues that take a while to resolve, so many users avoid them, until some level of stability is achieved (which historically has taken a long time at times). 

Point being is that there is a link between OS upgrades and Quicken too to consider but also Quicken upgrades have not proven to always be reliable enough to install. 

These are all factors that Quicken locks users out of controlling with their subscription model of reduced functionality (i.e. "read-only") if you don't pay.
Photo of RCinNJ

RCinNJ

  • 2,528 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
I did email the President and had a call from an assistant. She was very nice. However, after seeing his reply I do not believe he is listening. He wrote: "We’ve tried to strike a middle course between Quicken's behavior in the past (discontinuation of connected services, while permitting manual data entry) and that of other subscription software products, like Microsoft Office 365, whose "reduced functionality mode" makes their products read-only."

As I have posted elsewhere, there is a HUGE difference between Quicken and software products such as those from Adobe and Microsoft. MAINLY, I can access and edit the files from these programs in many other programs. I am NEVER locked out of editing my data. This also means that I can switch to a different program at any time if I decide the functionality or cost are not to my liking. Adobe, Microsoft, virus software, etc. that have moved to a subscription model have to provide a user experience that users feel is worth the cost. This contrasts with Quicken which I, like many users who have weighed in here, have stayed with because the time-cost of switching is large and I have maintained a hope and trust that the new owners will follow through on promises that have not yet been kept. I am a Quicken for Mac user which makes this discussion even more Kafkaesque. 
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
I totally agree with you about Quicken being different from other products from Adobe and Microsoft. With the proprietary data format, the user can't just easily access the data in other ways. The "reduced functionality" if the subscription ends is a deal breaker for many long term Quicken users.
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,050 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
The whole product idea "personal desktop finances" is a dying industry, and the best Quicken Inc can do in my opinion is find a way to keep it on life support until the people using it die.  The average age of someone using Quicken is probably 50 years old.  It is going the way of writing checks.
But isn't that because 50-year olds have money?

I'm 42. When I was 22, it's true that if you put Quicken in front of me I would have asked you what the hell it was. But not because of the program's inherent complexity or because it was on a desktop (granted, back then phones were just phones), but because I was broke. You could have managed my personal finances on a post-it note.

By the time I was 32, when I first started using Quicken and Microsoft Money, there was actually a point to using a PFM. I had a mortgage and more than one kind of account. This is more or less the typical Quicken user life cycle Mr. Dunn described in an interview last year to explain why he thought Quicken was still relevant. 

I agreed with him then and I agree with him now. In fairness, apparently even Mint's abandonment rate is ridiculously high. But Quicken -- or something like it -- is still relevant to anyone for whom terms like tax lots, marginal rates, and amortization means anything. Right? I mean, people like that have to manage their finances somewhere, don't they? There has to be a market for at least one PFM with Quicken's capabilities as long as there are enough people on the planet with sufficient wealth to require such a tool. Doesn't there?

Am I missing something? Is the platform the problem? I use Mint, Personal Capital, the Vanguard app, all on my iPhone and iPad. Sure, it's great fun. But even on the big iPad Pro, the screen is too small to do anything serious. Am I the only person who prefers to use two huge desktop monitors while running Quicken? Why would anyone want to try to use Quicken on a mobile device, even if it was possible?

You say that certain Quicken users "have the fear of being online." You've just described my 69-year old mother. But she would never use Quicken to begin with (or maybe she would, I've never asked). So is Quicken Inc.'s problem that they can't get fuddie-duddies like my mother with her canvas-covered ledger and scraps of paper to use a browser? 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, by the way. I'm honestly curious as to why this market has been moribund. It's hard for me to imagine the PFM, desktop or otherwise, as being on life-support, but you're obviously on to something.

When MS Money was put out to pasture, one of MSFT's spokespeople explained to the financial press that PFMs were going to be increasingly less relevant. I remember reading that and thinking, "Of course. Couldn't be Microsoft's fault."

I was one of the many people who assumed that Microsoft had just decided they had better things to do, that someone would assume Microsoft's position in the PFM wars and that the Coke vs. Pepsi status quo ante would resume. It never happened. It's one of the great mysteries in life to me. 
Photo of gmalis1

gmalis1, SuperUser

  • 130,550 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
You bring up some wonderfully valid points.  But let me give you my spin...and this is just my own personal opinion.

Quicken is a dying company because the software is stale and stagnant.  Now, I'll get some flack about how many features have been added over the years and all, but for the most part the Windows version of Quicken is the same old same old.  Every few years they dress it up, but the interface is basically the same.  Downloading transactions was unique at first, but it's no longer just a Quicken feature.  Lot's of other software will do it...and in most cases do a better job of it.  

Why is Quicken dying?  Because if they did a complete revamp Quicken users would be in an uproar (for the most part) because they are resistant to change.  I mean, if Quicken changes the color scheme or moves a button, users are in an uproar.

Plus you have a learning curve that spans a very wide age span and comprehension level.  Add to that there are so many versions of Quicken users out there...and I mean YEAR versions...going to a completely different GUI would be mayhem.  Heck, there are still people posting on here who are using Quicken 2003, 2004, 2005 even.

Next, of course, is just plain quality.  With each added "feature", Quicken becomes a mess.  Why?  Because they have to add on to existing code instead of a complete rewrite.  Can't do it.  Too complex, not enough resources, customer push back.  And too many operating systems and PC variables to get everything right.  And they each seemingly contact a different service for each feature...and getting it to integrate with Quicken is a disaster. Online Bills, credit report, Zillow...even their Cloud sync...all messed up at one time or another.  And for the most part, all info I can easily and readily get somewhere else.  There's just nothing new here.  No new insight into my finances.  How many places do I need to get my credit score?  Quicken, Credit Karma, my bank, my credit card company...they all do it for free.  Zillow listing for my home?  Really?  I can't just go to Zillow and see THEIR inaccurate info from THEIR site?  Online bills? Since I already pay my bills from my bank's website, I can set up reminders (that are accurate) to pay an upcoming bill from there.  I need this in Quicken?

Next, is millennial and tech savvy users.  Why purchase Quicken (at around $100...or $35 from Amazon) when I can get all the same info from my bank, credit card and investment companies website?  It's all there...you just have to find it.  Older users don't want to do that.  Tech savvy and younger users have no problem and plenty of patience for that.

Quicken, with it's subscription policy coming probably next year that locks out manual entry and will charge way above $15 a year (probably much closer to at least $100).  And it will be yet another case of capital investment companies exhibiting corporate greed by over-estimating it's value of its product to it's customers. 

But this time, instead of a pharmaceutical company holding patient's hostage, Quicken's users will just leave.

I know I will.  I won't pay an over the top price for such a lousy product whereas I can get the same info from different sources for free.
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,982 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
For what it is worth a total rewrite isn't possible, not just because of people's resistance to change.  Quicken is very feature rich, that was built up over a long time.  It has so many feature and people using in in so many different ways, that there in fact no one that knows all the features.  So a rewrite means years of development building that back up.
In the meantime you will have customers that are constantly complaining about the lack of features or staying on an old release until they decide it has "parity" with the old version or such.  And that means extreme loss of revenue for Quicken Inc.

This isn't a "vague guess".  It has already played out (and continues to play out) on the Mac side.
Photo of smayer97

smayer97, SuperUser

  • 150,410 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
One thing that people are overlooking are some of the justifications for desktop Quicken...a few of the reasons people use it are consolidation of all info in one place, portability, and security...

 If users have a larger number of accounts, accessing all the info at individual sites is far less practical and efficient. If users change services by moving banks, or even changing accounts within a bank, they often lose access to all the history. With the software, the data stays with you.

As for security, when you have that much consolidated financial info in one place, there are growing concerns about the vulnerability of accessing all that info vs only one of your financial institutions being hacked.

One of the reasons the demographics for Quicken is much older is partly because it takes people a while to either reach this point of having the means and therefore these needs in their life or it takes them a while to realize these issues and a need for a solution.

So, is desktop PFM software a dying breed? I would venture to say no, though it is possible it will become a niche market. Only time will tell.
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
Smayer97 These are all goood points about Quicken users preferences.
Photo of Leo Hackster

Leo Hackster

  • 182 Points 100 badge 2x thumb

Like the majority of people who commented on this topic, I have been a Quicken user for 15+ years. I have been purchasing a new version every 3 years at approximately C$100 and never contacted Quicken support. I would be happy to continue using Quicken in the subscription model on 2 conditions:

1) The annual subscription price (without "Premium Support") priced at no more than $50 (which represents more than 50% premium over what I have ben paying historically); AND

2) Expired subscription results in no updates and no online services (e.g., download of quotes); HOWEVER, the manual entry of the transactions is still available.

I was looking forward to upgrading my Quicken 2014 to Quicken 2017, however, with the new T&C being unacceptable to me, I will stay with my current version of Quicken until/unless the terms change.

Alternatively, Quicken could continue offering a one-time purchase model, in which case, I would be open to paying C$150 for 3-year online services support.

In either case, the "read-only mode" is a deal breaker for me. 


Photo of Richard Wamsteeker

Richard Wamsteeker

  • 122 Points 100 badge 2x thumb

Very disappointed with the new subscription model.   What is the last feature that deserves $100?   The app is fine, but what about next year.    I look every year to see what has improved, but nothing is there.   All of the benefit statements are the same.

I understand that they pay fees for some of the services and upgrade about once every 3 years.    There is not enough improvements to justify a yearly fee.   Why do you have to be greedy?   Can you be happy with loyal customers.

Now searching this site for suggestions for alternatives.
Photo of smayer97

smayer97, SuperUser

  • 150,410 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
In all fairness, a subscription model is not so much about paying for ongoing new development and features. At some point it becomes more about sustaining the ongoing maintenance of the software, in this case, the functionality for online connectivity, etc. 

Think about it. At some point, there is a diminishing return on new features...there are only so many features you can add to this kind of software. Not to say there cannot be new features, but it becomes harder to justify lots of great new features year after year.

So I have no trouble with a subscription model to support these activities BUT do not hold hostage a user's data if they choose they do not need those services and are content to perform manual entry (or even where it may be their only option).
Photo of Bob

Bob

  • 212 Points 100 badge 2x thumb
I have read most of this thread and don't really have much to add that already hasn't been said.  I also have been a Quicken user from Dos days version 1 and needless to say have accumulated a lot of data.  Preventing me from maintaining this data is just plain wrong. Continuing with a subscription plan will be your downfall. I hope you seriously think this through.
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,050 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
@gmalis1:

You make some very valid points as well. A few in particular caught my attention:
for the most part the Windows version of Quicken is the same old same old.  Every few years they dress it up, but the interface is basically the same. 
Personally, I care less what Quicken looks like than what it can do. This came up when people were complaining about Q17's color scheme. My two cents were okay, sure, the colors are awful, but what about ... and then I proceeded to beat everyone over the head again with my long-standing gripes, like the LTP-Debt Reduction bug, not being able to customize asset classes, and so on. 

Point is, my gripes had to do with Quicken's existing functionality either not working properly or not working optimally, not what it looks like or where buttons are. 

But that's me. I have and use a handful of financial apps that perform their modest tasks well and look gorgeous. However, as I said upthread, though some alternatives come closer in certain areas than others, Quicken's same old same old remains unmatched by any PFM available except MS Money -- still, 8 years or so after Money was chucked by Microsoft. This is what is so astonishing to me.

It's also, I think, what should be a point of strength in Quicken's favor. If ever a software application existed that could justify a subscription model, Quicken -- with its same old feature-set that's already more powerful than any of the currently-supported alternatives -- would seem to be it. If they could just get the goddamned thing to run well ...
Online Bills, credit report, Zillow...even their Cloud sync...all messed up at one time or another. 
I have a weakness for conspiracy theories. Until I read a post by Jim Del Favero (who I cited upthread), my long-standing belief (based on nothing but my over-active imagination and a vast ignorance of both the IT sector and software engineering) was that the majority of Quicken "features" were added over the years not to offer increased functionality but as part of some lucrative licensing/branding scheme. Their cumulative effect, I've believed, has added little more than to bog Quicken down with extra freight. 

Anyway, this is the main reason, I've convinced myself, that the current owners are so keen to get everyone on the same release: after all, Quicken 2018 by FICO featuring the Wells Fargo Mortgage Analyzer is less remunerative if a large number of laggards are, as QPW says, still using Quicken 2004.

I haven't completely abandoned that theory. However, in a post on Quora.com Del Favero lays out the real cost savings achievable by Quicken by having support staff trained to only service a limited number of releases. So, maybe Mr. Dunn isn't completely blowing smoke up our you-know-whats on that issue. Doesn't mean I'm going fall onto my back with my checkbook in the air, but since trust is currently strained and evidence of goodwill is in shorter supply than usual ...
Next, is millennial and tech savvy users.  Why purchase Quicken (at around $100...or $35 from Amazon) when I can get all the same info from my bank, credit card and investment companies website?  It's all there...you just have to find it. 
Two main reasons I can think of, both having to do with aggregation. The first is access to "niche" features like tax lot management, portfolio rebalancing, debt reduction modeling, cash flow projection, and so on. The other main reason I can think of is that, even if you don't require niche features, bouncing around the internet to collect your financial data is a pain in the ass. It's the main reason millennials (to say nothing of middle-aged farts like me) use Mint and Personal Capital for certain tasks. 

It's hard for me to imagine why anyone would use Quicken for anything other than niche reasons, to be totally honest. I'm amazed at folks who pony up for Quicken Premier and use it as a virtual checkbook and to see how their 401K is doing. To me that's like swatting a fly with a telephone pole, but I guess each to their own. 

Anyway, don't get me wrong. I hear you. I threatened to walk if the upcoming terms offered by Quicken Inc. aren't to my liking -- a threat made possible because of the availability of data you cite. So have most others in this thread. But the data lockout issue aside, Management is obviously betting that we're full of it and that convenience will trump thrift just enough that they can squeeze us pretty hard.

In my case, they're probably wrong, but then they have no way of knowing how colossally cheap I am (maybe if they checked my correspondence with their customer service department they would, but I digress). Regardless, that aspect of their calculation (the convenience factor) isn't a bad bet on their part.
And it will be yet another case of capital investment companies exhibiting corporate greed by over-estimating it's value of its product to it's customers. 
Completely agree. In revealing an appalling misunderstanding of Quicken's user base and of the product itself, the data lockout in particular reflects the ultimate in widget mentality. After all, the reasoning goes, you can't pay for a Bloomin' Burger once and eat as many as you want. 

It's hard for me to believe such a misunderstanding could come from Quicken Inc. itself.  For one thing, most of these folks have been working with Quicken and its users for years. For another, not even Intuit -- an organization far from indifferent to profit -- ever tried this sort of move. It's draconian, medieval. It reeks of private equity.

If you had to distill one essential point from this entire War and Peace-sized thread (my own long-winded role in adding to it notwithstanding) I would award the prize to QPW. This is, as QPW states, a bad business move for the following reason alone: they could have gotten 99% of what they wanted without threatening to lock loyal users out of their data.
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
Agree. A business model that threatens to lock users out of their own data is a business model that can only result in ultimate failure for the company.
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,024 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
> they could have gotten 99% of what they wanted without threatening to lock loyal users out of their data.

This. Instead they went out of their way to add this "feature." It will have no effect on those who rarely upgrade because they don't upgrade and it will drive away many of those who do upgrade because we don't like being extorted. It's a lose-lose for Quicken.
Photo of mshiggins

mshiggins, SuperUser

  • 315,602 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
It's always a conspiracy. But it might not be the obvious conspiracy...
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,024 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
It's always a conspiracy.
Do tell; how did you infer a conspiracy?
Photo of mshiggins

mshiggins, SuperUser

  • 315,602 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
How did you infer it is not?
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,024 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
How did you infer it is not?
I didn't. But you did (that there's a conspiracy of some kind.) 
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,050 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
@Bylo:
I have a weakness for conspiracy theories.
It's all right. I don't blame you for skimming to the end ;)
Photo of Michael

Michael

  • 244 Points 100 badge 2x thumb
Maybe this already was mentioned, but Office 365 at ~100 CDN a year is good for 5 users, i.e. you can split the cost. It is good for Word, Excel, OneNote, PowerPoint, Publisher, Access, 1 TB cloud space and 60 free Skype minutes per month and that in a huge choice of languages. And I can save the files in a form useable by previous Office versions if I decide to leave 365 and go to a previous version. And that compares to Quicken at 90 CDN........Maybe TurboTax could be added to the package at that price, for starters?
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,524 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
I don't mind the subscription as much as I mind that stopping the subscription would effectively lock access to my data for manual entry. Unlike Office the Quicken file can't be used by earlier versions of Quicken or easily ported to another program.
Photo of New User

New User

  • 288 Points 250 badge 2x thumb
Another long time user here. Actively pursuing alternatives to Quicken. Refuse to rent software, particularly one that has so many issues, incomplete feature set (Mac version).
Photo of mshiggins

mshiggins, SuperUser

  • 315,562 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Be sure to vote, then.
Photo of Rocket J Squirrel

Rocket J Squirrel, SuperUser

  • 50,362 Points 50k badge 2x thumb
We seemed to be stalled at 241 votes. Adding comments here may feel good for venting, but votes matter. Can we at least get more than Rump got?
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,040 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
How about creating a banner post on the Home page, something loud and in all caps, like: VOTE NO TO LOCKING YOU OUT FROM YOUR QUICKEN DATA

The post could contain simple instructions on what to do and a link to this thread. Volunteers could keep it bumped every 5-15 minutes. Everyone who voted could post a "Voted" selfie. Punch and cookies could be handed out. 

Too tacky?
(Edited)
Photo of Wayne Hutchison

Wayne Hutchison

  • 162 Points 100 badge 2x thumb

I stumbled into this mess while trying to upgrade Quicken Canada H&B 2014 to 2017. The website wouldn't let me purchase the product without a Canadian address (I live in the USA) so that got me poking around the site. I'm not opposed to a subscription model as long as the yearly fee is reasonable. I don't think $90 CDN is reasonable for me. I only use Quicken Canada to track the RRSPs that I still have in Canada and I suppose I can just continue to do that via manual entry of fund prices once my 2014 online services expire.

Now, for the US version, I use Quicken 2017, and use it almost every day. I'd be more inclined to pay a higher fee for something that I use regularly, but it would still need to be in the $50 to $60 per year range, not $90+. Especially if Quicken won't fix the obvious problems with window sizing on multiple monitor displays (but I digress).



Photo of mshiggins

mshiggins, SuperUser

  • 315,562 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
mistertheplague, not too tacky.

I'm not sure Quicken Inc has anticipated what will happen if this subscription model is adopted once the first wave of data file locking starts to occur. I hope there is a big tall fence around corporate headquarters to keep out the angry users carrying torches and pitchforks.
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,858 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Only a moderator can go that, I don't see how they would be inclined to do it.
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,040 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
I don't mean a sticky, just a regular post continually bumped so it stays at the top of the Conversations feed. Rank and file proles can't do that?

The idea occurred to me because RJS lamented that there aren't more votes. I'd bet most users who visit the forum don't even know this thread exists. They come onto the site because they can't make their 12-month budget work right, they land on the Community Home page, scroll down a little past Conversations>All and then either type in a search or click NEW POST and vent some spleen.

These folks seem like targets of opportunity to me, politically speaking. As you SUs know better than the rest of us, most people don't come onto this site out of intellectual curiosity or to write Quicken a love note. They're already pissed.

Anyway, it was just a thought. You can't fight a guerrilla war by conventional means. 
(Edited)
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,858 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Well you can certainly do that, I thought you meant a "sticky" post.
I'm not sure how that is going to work any better than this one though.
The only reason this one isn't constantly at the top is the very fact that it would take a constant "bumping" of the thread, and frankly I believe that is even against the forum rules so it probably would just get closed.
(Edited)
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,004 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
most people don't come onto this site out of intellectual curiosity or to write Quicken a love note. 
Even without resorting to "guerilla warfare" tactics this thread already holds the all-time record for most number of votes and most number of replies. Evidently even people who came to this forum for help with other issues have noticed the activity on this thread and expressed their opinions by way of voting or posting.

Quicken management ignores this thread at their own peril.

First because the response to this thread is just a small sample of overall sentiment. This is no different from how a relatively small number of letters, phone calls and e-mails to a politician can get results.

Second, because the changes in Quicken's policies that we're decrying only affect the much smaller Canadian market. The number of responses to this thread is heavily skewed to those of us in the Great White [but rapidly melting] North. We're just canaries in Quicken's gold mine. If HIG ignores this thread because there are "only" about 250 votes and roll out the same changes in the US version next year, they risk killing their newly-acquired golden canarygoose.
(Edited)
Photo of Hershey

Hershey

  • 2,460 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
I am sure the Quicken business office has tried to evaluate many options. I would like to suggest that Quicken comes up with multiple levels of subscription options. Personally to pay something in the neighborhood of $100/yr for this product is beyond my capability and need. However, someone using this product to manage a company's finances, to manage property, maybe $100/yr is a bargain? Maybe it is outright cheap. There are probably the simplest of users, that basically use Quicken as a digital checking account register. Maybe track their mortgage payments and equity balance, maybe have a few thousand dollars in some stocks,  Another level are those trying to have records that can easily be transferred to something like TurboTax.

So here is a thought based on no knowledge of the business. I am resigning to the subscription model which I dislike. I am sure this is incomplete, but I am not trying to do Mr. Dunn's job.

To start with there would be an initial subscription cost, about what a new version of Quicken costs today, Then a subscription renewal cost, let me throw out 40% of the initial cost as an idea.

Quicken Basic: Digital Checking/Savings/Credit Card accounts register.

$40 initial, $20 annual renewal.

Quicken Home: Add investment accounts (Standard/Tax Deferred/Employer Plans, and planning tools, debt reduction tools, etc. 

$100 initial, $40 annual renewal.

Rental Property Management

$200 initial, $80 annual renewal

Business Management

$500 initial, $200 annual renewal

If customer is using product to make money, verses to track home budgets and simple investments, then he/she will pay more.

Allowing subscription to lapse, cuts off all support, cuts off all on line access, BUT does not prevent continued offline use of the tool with zero support, renewal after a 6 month lapse requires initial cost.

I had to throw this out there. I am so frustrated with the current plan. I have already put way too much effort into finding an alternative product. I am currently trying to correct all the export / import errors with three alternative programs. I would prefer to stay with Quicken, but not with the plan as I currently understand it.

PS: Improved resolution of known bugs (the list is huge with on-line downloading being near the top of the list, on line backup and access to same being a close second, and user interface (readability being right there also), improved support to users (be that through on line access to manuals, printed manuals, or live personnel) might make higher annual cost reasonable. But that is something that Quicken will have to prove. Right now the track record is pretty poor.
Photo of Peculiar_Investor

Peculiar_Investor

  • 1,748 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
Why am I no longer receiving notification emails when new updates are made to this topic? I still have it marked to Follow. AFAIK nothing has changed on my end.

Do I need to change something or is it the result of Kathlyn changing the status to show the "Official" reply?
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
I'm not getting them either.
Photo of smayer97

smayer97, SuperUser

  • 150,410 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
I have noticed that too, ever since this thread has been re-opened. The only e-mail notifications I get from this thread are LIKES. Otherwise, I get ALL other notifications from OTHER threads.

I strongly suspect there is a feature to override the e-mail notifications by the admin. I have tried to get confirmation but no reply. Not sure why the need...if it proves to be true, seems pretty cowardly.

Has ANYONE been getting e-mail notifications for this thread? 
(Edited)
Photo of QPW

QPW

  • 282,982 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
Given the email problems and such people have with this GetSatisfaction forum I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that the moderators didn't do anything, this just how this forum software works (or in this case, doesn't work).

BTW I never get any email for anything.  I like it that way, but it took one person several weeks to get the GetSatisfaction people to find and fix a problem with his account not sending any email notifications.
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
I actually haven't been getting them for any threads I follow for awhile now.
Photo of mistertheplague

mistertheplague

  • 2,050 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
Has ANYONE been getting e-mail notifications for this thread? 
Not me.
Photo of splasher

splasher, SuperUser

  • 524,482 Points 100k badge 2x thumb
No.  It is a quirk of GetSat that a closed, then re-opened thread doesn't trigger emails.
Photo of Lanka

Lanka

  • 1,604 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
I didn't get them even when it was open. I also didn't get them from any other open thread.
Photo of mke

mke

  • 80 Points 75 badge 2x thumb
Totally agree with most of the comments posted here but I have not been able to find any comments from any user that has actually converted to the 2017 Canadian version. Most comments in other threads seem to relate to the US version. Last year I tried to convert to the 2016 version but had so many problems that I went back to using my 2014 version. In the meantime, I will keep looking for an alternative and start over .
Photo of Jim Harman

Jim Harman

  • 2,042 Points 2k badge 2x thumb
My concern is not so much the subscription model but the concept of forced, automatic upgrades. Because I depend on Quicken to manage my personal finances, I am careful not to upgrade until a a new version is on R3 or R4 and the level of online complaints has settled down.

I hope that any new upgrade strategy will preserve users' ability to time major upgrades over at least a 6 month window and will give them the ability to revert to the previous version if the new software breaks something they depend on.
Photo of Peculiar_Investor

Peculiar_Investor

  • 1,748 Points 1k badge 2x thumb
It has been mentioned many times previously on this topic, this is one area Quicken's customers have been quite clear. 

Quicken doesn't have a very good record of fixing significant bugs between releases and many times there is marked regression in the software quality when a new release is made. That's a big concern. I've experienced it going from Quicken 2013 to Quicken 2016, the Intuit ID feature and constant loss of window "focus" apparently have gone unfixed over at least a couple of feature releases. 

My background is software development, for enterprise systems such as voice mail. I don't expect software to be bug free, but I do expect that if a significant bug is introduced in a feature release, it will be timely addressed and definitely fixed before the next feature release. That doesn't seem to apply with Quicken. 

If I could advise the new Quicken owners on one thing, that would be first and foremost. I would suggest based on my own experience and reading the other posts here, that's one of the major reasons that Quicken users tend to skip over feature releases. 
Photo of Bylo Selhi

Bylo Selhi

  • 3,024 Points 3k badge 2x thumb
+1

I've seen the same indifference to bug fixing over the past several years and the regression of overall product quality that has ensued. Likewise I've been in the enterprise and personal computer software business all my life.  I've never seen such indifference to quality from any other software vendor.

Quicken needs to concentrate on product quality before they try to put us on a subscription model from which there's no escape.
Photo of Robert Holloway

Robert Holloway

  • 184 Points 100 badge 2x thumb
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Why can I buy a USA version for $119 as standalone CD but not Canada..

I am against this new subscription policy > I am now retired, am not a business and use Q H & R 2014 for my banking needs and mutual funds portfolio. I have no need for support by Quicken unless program does not work. So that persepctive of the subsciption fee is wrong . Why should I support a software that does not allow after one year sof rme to continue , Most software allow you to use but without updates which one agrees but to cut you off, fully wrong , Why can I buy a USA version for $119 as standalone CD but not Canada. Even MS allows me to buy standalone if I do not use the subscription model. Even apps on mobiles are standalone purchases. Sorry you have lost a customer