Unknown Account Type in Express Web Connect and EWC not downloading transactions

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Product Version: Quicken Home & Business 2017 - Canadian Version - R1 (current release as of today, June 11, 2017).

I have been experience major problems with EWC downloading transactions from RBC Royal Bank recently (and, in retrospect in the past, which have forced to start from scratch in a new Quicken file (not a new account, a new file).

After a lot of troubleshooting, research, and consultation, I've been able to somewhat isolate and somewhat replicate what causes EWC to stop working. I'm posting the following details in the hope that someone can help further isolate the cause of the problem and to help any others that might be having a similar issue.

Once this problem sets in, it is sometimes repairable (see below) and sometimes unrepairable. When unrepairable, it results in an inability to use EWC for the affected accounts/bank/client card number. Thus, this is a major problem, which can be replicated... it is not the result of random file corruption.

Symptoms of the problem (any combination of the following):
- EWC goes through the motions, possibly with no error messages, but doesn't download available transactions;
- When running EWC setup, there are one or more accounts listed as "unknown type" in the ADD, LINK, IGNORE dialogue box;
- EWC takes an abnormally short period of time to complete;
- EWC setup takes an abnormally short period of time to find accounts;
- When you get to the EWC setup box, accounts that are already linked, are proposed to be linked instead of indicating IGNORE with not pickup box; i.e. EWC doesn't properly understand they are already linked.
- When running EWC update or EWC setup CAPTCHA-like security responses appear;
- When running EWC setup, you don't see pop up dialog boxes for updating accounts that are already linked
- When your run a successive series of file copy operations and file validate operations Quicken will find a problem with an account in the first validate and a problem with a category in the second, subsequent validate (but you must do file copy operation in between).

I've reviewed many threads on various related topics and considered the advice given against the symptoms I experience. There are several threads that address issues that bear some semblance to what I am encountering, but none are a perfect match to my issue/situation and none of the fixes from the other threads work (entirely or reliably) in my case.

What I've been able to piece together is that some action, operation, or transaction I perform with my data file results in a problem with categories and/or accounts. These problem categories and/or accounts don't appear in the respective lists, even when viewing in "show hidden" mode. Something similar to this issue is documented elsewhere, but Quicken's help suggests that I should be able to find TEMP_ accounts or blank categories or categories with odd names and delete such. In my case, no odd accounts or odd categories appear in the respective lists, even when viewing hidden ones. In my case, the corrupt categories or accounts exist, but are invisible and don't ever appear in any viewable list, even when viewing "show hidden".

In some cases, I can clear the problem categories and/or accounts by doing a sequential series of account copy and validate date file operations (i.e. copy file, then validate, then copy file again, then validate again, and then one last file copy); the resultant file is then sometimes free of the corruption and EWC functionality is restored. When that process fixes the error, with the first validate, it will first find a problem with an account names something like "ACCT_24", which doesn't appear in my account list. Then, after a successive file copy, with the second validate it will then report that it fixed a problem with category (but doesn't provide any details). One more copy file operation and I'll be back in business with EWC (if both the bad account and then the bad category were found and corrected).

The problem manifests itself in the EWC Setup process. When there are problems with categories and/or accounts in my datafile then I start seeing "unknown type" listed for some or all of my accounts in EWC setup. There are some other symptoms that make evident that this problem has occurred. These other symptoms are more difficult to describe... almost need a video of the EWC setup process to illustrate them... the symptoms include prompts for CAPTCHA-like security questions, the amount of time required to find bank accounts (it completes quickly or takes a long time - long time is better), and there is the presence or non-presence of transaction update dialog boxes before the setup (link, ignore, add) dialog box appears - presence is good; non-presence bad. More specifically, if it finishes finding accounts too quickly, it doesn't open dialog boxes showing updates for already EWC-linked accounts, and/or it does present CAPTCHA-like security prompts, I'm going to see "unknown type" showing for some or all accounts listed in the Setup dialog box (i.e. ADD, LINK, IGNORE dialog box). And, all of these phenomena are caused by some sort of corruption in the category and/or account list(s). Apparently categories and accounts share a list in the Quicken database?

What is most frustrating is that I have NOT been able to isolate the action, operation, or transaction that creates the account and/or category problem. Not knowing what causes the corruption makes me fearful of investing time in resetting up all my accounts from scratch... because I don't know when or what may cause the category/account corruption to recur... which may break my EWC again... and it might not be repairable... requiring me to start from scratch with a new file again.

If anyone has any insight into actions, transactions, or operations that can lead to corruption in the category or account list and, ultimately, lead to the appearance of "Unknown Type" in the EWC setup dialog box (i.e. where you should see ADD, LINK, IGNORE), I'd greatly appreciate you sharing that information.

Note: using EWC with more than one client card number, which share joint accounts might be one of the causes of this issue, BUT, I've had the issue occur in a new file that only ever had EWC setup for one client card. Therefore, there is at least one other action, transaction, or operation that can cause this type of corruption in the category/account list(s).

I hope someone can provide further insight that helps me isolate and avoid the action, operation, or transaction that results in the problematic corruption.

I also wish there was a way to have someone at Quicken Tech Support look into this in detail. I've had little success in getting connected with knowledgeable people at Quicken. Taking this issue up with chat support is nearly certain to be a complete exercise in frustration. I believe the detail included here demonstrates that I could point an able product development person in the right direction towards fully isolating the cause of the issue.

I suspect this problem has impacted many people over the years.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help !!!
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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Posted 2 years ago

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Roger

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Great summary.  And thorough too!  I've been experiencing EWC issues since last fall. After finally concluding it may be related to Win10 compatibility with Quicken Premier 2015 I upgraded to 2016. I guess it was hope.  The problem persisted across all EWC accounts.  I spent time on a couple of Chat sessions diagnosing client file corruption etc.  

They sent me to my FI saying it was an issue with them.  It was not.  After a couple more support sessions all but one EWC account would work as they had for years before.

The Veridian CU issues persisted. If they got connected and download they would no longer connect or download after a couple of days.  At that CU my wife and i have 3 member accounts each using its own set of credentials.  Each member account has multiple account types under it.  All of these are in one client data file so each OSU would try to connecting to all of them.  

I created a new data file and added one member account and it worked.  I created another new data file and added 2 member accounts and finally added another with all 3 member accounts.  I now had new test data files with only the problem accounts and no categories and it worked.  For a couple of days when the problem returned to each data file. If they would activate they would not download.  When I deactivated and reactivated I would get the 'unknown type' with each OSU.

I was finally connected to 2 engineers in Bangalore who took on the problem.  We've spent several hours using Webex to test and diagnose over the last several weeks.  They gather the logs and attempt other possibilities.  It seemed as if we were going backward and not forward in progressing toward root cause.  Late last week a new guy was brought into our meeting and noticed immediately that I had a rather uncommon situation.  

As mentioned above, I have 3 member accounts at the one problem FI and each has multiple accounts.  To be precise, two of them have four accounts (checking, savings, Visa, etc.) while the other has eleven accounts under it (CD's, etc).  His theory is that multiple member accounts with multiple accounts being accessed in one update was hitting limits established for security purposes.

They made changes and we have now successfully activated and downloaded transactions for 2 of the 3 member accounts. I can only activate 1 member per day to avoid the triggers so tomorrow will be the big and hopefully final test to see if the 3rd member account with 11 accounts under will activate and download.  So far his theory is proving out and you touched on it on your comments above.  

It sounds as though they have lots of scripts working in the background.  I envision a bowl of spaghetti making it all work.  I don't mean that to be critical but am told they are working on changes to the architecture to improve EWC which is recognized as problematic. 

In one of our early working meetings they discovered the "temp_accounts" that had been created along the way.  They sent me a .exe file that is a backdoor to the client data file.  That backdoor allowed us to see and delete the "temp_ accounts.  If you can get a support tech to work you through that it might be helpful to discover what your situation might be. 

Good luck.  
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@Roger: thank you for the update. What happens if you make copy of your file and then cycle it through the iterative File Operations-Copy - Validate - File Operations-Copy - validate cycle that I have described? Does it flush out one or more bad accounts and:or categories?
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Roger

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Sorry I'm not seeing the steps you refer to.  I have created new data files and transferred validated historical data into them.  The file I have been working with for the past few weeks is one of those.  This one has been the closest one to working.  

This morning all accounts appeared to connect correctly and only some account trans were downloaded.  So there are still issues between the CU, Quicken and me. We've ruled out corruption at the client since they feel they know root cause.  It getting the root cause fixed that is still WIP. 
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@Roger: IF you see "Unknown Type" listed as the account type for one or more of your CU accounts in EWC setup, you could try the following, which has resolved the "Unknown Type" issue for me on several (but not all) occasions:
  1. Create a copy of your data file using File Operations --> Copy;
  2. Open the newly created copy;
  3. Perform a file validate; if this first validate finds an account error, referencing an account with a name similar to "ACCT_24" or "ACCT_2c", which don't appear in my account list, then the validate process is flushing out the corruption causing the unknown account type in EWC setup.
  4. Perform another file copy again using File Operations --> Copy;
  5. Validate the file again; if this second validate finds a problem with a category, which wasn't found on the first validate then you are continuing the process of flushing out the corruption causing the Unknown Type in the EWC setup.
  6. Perform another file copy again using File Operations --> Copy;
  7. Validate the file again; typically, there will be no error found this time, but if you do find another account error, repeat the cycle until no account or category issues are found.
The above process successfully resolved the Unknown Type account in EWC setup issue for me most of the time. When the above process didn't work, I first need to export all my data using the QIF export method, import the data into a new file and then use the above process repeatedly as I set up the accounts for download again in EWC setup.

The combination of the QIF export/import into a brand new file and running the above cycle in iterations seems to be allowing me to restore EWC functionality. I still do have a mess to clean up because the QIF export/import process is not perfect. But, it is a better option than starting from a blank file and manually recreating all of my securities, accounts, scheduled transactions, etc.

My EWC issues are tightly correlated with the appearance of "Unknown Type" accounts in the EWC setup. When I get things in state where there are no "Unknown Type" accounts in EWC setup then EWC downloads flawlessly for me. So, my concerns are how to clear and prevent the data file corruption that presents "Unknown Type" as symptom... and that is what it is, a symptom, not the root cause of the issue(s).
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Roger

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Thanks.  I've performed 'validate' and 'super validate' on multiple files and not found corruption or errors beyond the early 'temp_accounts' and a couple of trans that needed attention.  Once those were cleared out I've stayed with same file, being confident the root and focus is on scripting and triggers at Quicken.  
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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I found that performing the File_Operation-->Copy operation before performing a Validate (or SuperValidate) sometimes enables Validate to find issues that Validate could not find before/without the File_Operations-->Copy. Put another way, the File_Operations-->Copy steps in the above are actually part of flushing out the problem transactions, not just a means of being able to back track if something goes wrong. While I don't know what's happening "behind the scenes" with the File_Operations-->Copy command, it's copy process is evidently different from Save_As and different from Backup_File. File_Operations-->Copy carries out the copy in a way that can reveal and/or leave behind corruption. It appears to copy transactions one-by-one.
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John Bacogiannis

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OK well, EWC has stopped working again and this time I am NOT gonna try creating a new file seeing this one is pretty much new - just 2 weeks old.

Seeing that EWC is primarily a Quicken service, it makes sense that the banks will not support it. Web connect works and that's all the bank needs to hold up its end of the bargain.

It's up to the Quicken server and development team to resolve this but I will tell you one thing - if it isn't resolved by this coming January, I will NOT renew my subscription and bid Quicken goodbye.

Which will be a crying shame because I've been using the product since the early 1990's.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@John: Now that your EWC is malfunctioning again, would you please share whether you now see any "Unknown Type" listed in your EWC setup dialogue box (where you would ADD, IGNORE, or LINK an account)?

BTW, I am now getting inconsistent behaviour using EWC with RBC RoyalBank. Without changing anything, it various runs OK (or seems to), or reports an Error CC-506 with one of my RBC Royal Bank Credit Cards, and/or tells me it can't find one of my accounts anymore. In the latter case, it asks me if I've closed the account, which I haven't.

Thus, I too got less than 2 weeks of functionality out of the new account. I still had a long way to go with accepting transactions into the new account and it is unstable.

I again raise the question: do the people who matter and could affect change at Quicken understand how badly impacted a large portion of their user base is by unreliable EWC behaviour. I think we can safely assume that front line phone and chat tech support are not doing an effective job of communicating these issues to people who could take action. You've experienced it, I've experienced it, we've read about others experiencing it, front line tech support readily comes to the conclusion it is a bank problem and tells their client to go take the issue up with the bank.... which, almost invariably, accomplishes nothing.

How do we get the people with authority to take action to take note of these EWC issues that are affecting many users?
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Rexter

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It is interesting you mentioned extra accounts as I have had problems on and off with Navy Federal Credit union and I have seen on the update summary it saying 7 or 8 accounts updated but I only have 5 and also reference to accounts with the word temp in their name but I have not been able to find any such accounts listed anywhere.  I suspect they exist and need to be purged but have no way to do it.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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Try the deactivate - file copy - validate process described above. If that fails, you, like me and others, all need the back door data manipulation tool that Roger describes, andwhich he obtained from the developers in Bangalore.
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@Rexter: There is a Quicken Support document that explains how to delete the TEMP accounts, but the official Quicken fix seems to work in some cases and not in others. If you actually see the word TEMP at times, you may be lucky in that the official Quicken remedy may work. The official Quicken fix seems to only work if you can find the TEMP accounts in either your Account List (with view Hidden switched on) or in your Category List (with view hidden switched on). You need to check both because Quicken stores account names and Category names in the same list in the data file. I have been able to prove that I have phantom accounts, but they don't appear in the account/category list viewers even with "show hidden" switched on. You see, below, that I've posted a process which MIGHT be effective at cleansing these phantom accounts. If you try the process I've posted, please report back. Follow the steps VERY carefully and precisely. A minor deviation, like exporting and importing the account list, could cause it not to work. I do not in any way guarantee the fix - I'm still testing it for myself, but I think I'm onto something.
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Rexter

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Thanks Artic Hare.  After reading the posts and  knowing that I have seem temp accounts listed to link to (but don't show up in the account list, with show hidden checked) and the statement in my log file under the FI saying something like user has exceeded the maximum number of accounts, I called quicken support.  Told them everything and they ignored it of courses, so after 5 hours of redoing everything I have tried and a few new things, they said sorry. 

After that ordeal, since I had a new test file that the trouble accounts worked in, I played with exporting and importing and I had a new file that worked. Unfortunately I have found more and more things that are not setup.  I had to reclose and hide about 30 accounts that I have closed over the years, re-initiate online setup for every FI but what is killing me now is all of my mortgages are no longer loans, just liability accounts.  I can set up a new loan but can't move any of the transactions to the new loan.

So while I fixed my original problem, it seems I am still kind ofhung out to dry.  I wish there was some way to edit the file to remove the temp accounts but I can't see them anywhere and I have found no way to open to file to edit.

I will try your steps and see if I fare any better.  Thank you
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@Rexter: I'm in the same boat as you... and I've been through this process of patching the holes left behind from export/import cycle twice. Those holes include (at a minimum) the following:
  • all attachments are left behind;
  • certain split transactions get broken out out into multiple transactions;
  • mortgages become liabilities with no ability to repair (close and replace with new mortgage);
  • savings goals cease to be savings goals; they must be deleted and recreated, losing the full transaction history;
  • brokerage accounts and related securities that were denominated in some currency other than my default (Canadian) get switched to USD and the option to switch the currency back is greyed out, causing the value of these holdings to be wrong by more than 30%; I was able to fix this by exporting the transactions from the one account, recreating the brokerage account and importing the transactions into the recreated account;
  • all asset allocations are stripped out of securities, leaving all the securities (in my case over 50 of them) as undefined.
  • some reconciled transactions appear unreconciled after export/import;
  • some transfers don't make it through the export/import cycle.
I doubt that I've covered all of the collateral damage caused by the export/import cycle. In my case, fixing this collateral damage could easily take 40 hours. In contrast, reacting my file from scratch, without recreating transactions, just the structure, would, I estimate, take at least double that time (e.g. 80 - 100 hours).

And my estimates of effort to "patch up" holes left behind from export/import is only to restore minimum functionality. The first time I did the export/import cycle, I left behind years of transaction history.

What should be inferred here is that this "Unknown Type" issue is a MAJOR problem that has huge implications on those of us that are afflicted... and I truly suspect the number of affected users is quite high. Most people affected will never figure out what happened and will never get far enough to discover this post.

Yes, there is a better way to remove the "Unknown Type" accounts. Quicken has a tool that provides access to the data file, which facilitates manual deletion of the temp accounts that don't appear in the account list. However, good luck getting access to the tool or getting someone to fix your file for you. Many users have experienced/learned that tech support simply blames the problem on your FI and tells you to start a new file. Thanks.

I do hope that more users that are afflicted by the terrible "Unknown Type" disease weigh in on the conversation here. Even though Quicken staff have avoided commenting on this thread, I suspect they are reading it. Of course, that still begs the question, will Product Development, the people who need to read and consider this thread carefully, actually read it and come to understand the magnitude of the problem?

Please keep sharing! You are not alone in this problem!!
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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This comment will be of interest to people experiencing problems with downloading transactions using EWC and have discovered that the EWC Add/Setup dialogue box lists some of your accounts to be of "Unknown Type".

I have been plagued by this issue and it appears that I made some progress towards a (somewhat complicated) "fix" to the "Unknown Type" issue this evening. I have more work to do to confirm whether it is a complete and stable fix or whether the EWC connection will break again soon. However, for the moment, I've got EWC working in a file that previously absolutely wouldn't download transactions from my FI using EWC anymore.

In brief, here is what I did...
I started with a file with persistent "Unknown Type" issues for which the functional symptom/issue was an inability to download data by EWC from RBC Royal Bank (the largest bank in Canada). This file would not download data via EWC no matter how many times I deactivated and reactivated or cleared the browser history and, whenever I went into the EWC setup/add dialogue box, several of my accounts would be listed as "Unknown Type". The Unknown Type persisted across complete deactivation/reactivation cycles. The steps I took to make progress this evening are as follows:
  1. Deactivated all EWC connections;
  2. Used the QIF method to export all transactions EXCLUDING the account list, but INCLUDING the security list;
  3. Created a new Quicken file;
  4. Turned on Investment view/tab;
  5. Imported all the previously exported transactions EXCLUDING the account list, but INCLUDING the security list;
  6. Accepted all the newly imported transactions into the new file;
  7. Used File Operations --> Copy to make a copy of the file;
  8. Opened the new copy;
  9. Validated the (new, copied) file - no errors;
  10. Supervalidated the file - no errors again;
  11. Right clicked my main savings account and, on the Online Services tab, selected Setup. When the ADD, LINK, IGNORE dialogue box opened, there were no Unknown Type accounts (a good sign);
  12. LINKed my main savings account and set ALL other accounts in the Setup dialogue box (including EWC supported and EWC not supported) to IGNORE;
  13. EWC completed and downloaded all data, matching existing transactions and showing new ones as recent as yesterday (WoW !!!!  -- WoW !!!)

This strongly supports my theory that the appearance of "Unknown Type" in the EWC ADD, LINK, IGNORE setup box is indication of corrupt, phantom, or TEMP accounts that can't be seen in the Account List and aren't normally found or corrected by a validate or supervalidate operation.

I'll try adding my other accounts into the file over the coming days and provide further updates. I've only linked one account so far. I need to link another four supported accounts. I hope that adding other accounts doesn't break the fix.

Perhaps others that are having similar problems might try my method and also report out as to the results.
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John Bacogiannis

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Ok, I managed to get somewhere on my end regarding transactions not downloading via EWC.

So, I knew for a fact that today there were cleared transactions available for download. Yes, one step update reports 0 transactions to download.

So I had two choices.

Either wait out the problem for Quicken to resolve it and get around this problem by using plain old Web Connect OR deactivate and reactivate EWC and see what happens.

Well my friends, I tried a different approach altogether today.

I have only two accounts (yes I'm poor): Chequing and Savings account

So, I went into the Account List

The order of the accounts is important to mention.

The first account listed in the Accounts List is my CHEQUINGS Account

The 2nd account is my SAVINGS ACCOUNT.

So, I went into the properties of the SAVINGS ACCOUNT and instead of deactivating EWC, I chose RESET ACCOUNT.

Clicked on RESET ACCOUNT.

Prompts me for my RBC password.

After a few secs, a window pop up and asks me which of the 2 accounts listed below is the savings account.

Basically, it had two options for me to choose:

1. Savings (Account # listed here)
2. None of the above.

I chose #1, which is the correct one.

I then clicked ok and off Quicken goes to communicate with the server.

And that was it, no error messages or anything. The dialog box with the above choices disappeared and returned me back to the ACTIVATE/DEACTIVATE or RESET ACCOUNT page for the savings account.

So I clicked OK and went to the CHEQUINGS account and performed the same steps.

I clicked on RESET ACCOUNT.

It now comes up with the same dialog box as it did for the SAVINGS account but here is where I found a BUG.

It asks me which of the following accounts listed below is the correct one for the CHEQUING account.

It should have listed the following:

1. Chequing Account (account # listed here)
2. None of the above

BUT instead it showed this:

1. Savings Account (account # listed here)
2. None of the above.

So, I had to choose #2 - None of the above because the Chequing account option was not listed.

Pressed OK and Quicken communicated with the server and then the dialog box disappeared.

Ok, that seemed a little suspicious and I kinda suspected that there might be a problem in the future because Quicken was unable to link to the Chequing account. So maybe it has retained it's old value or the value of that variable in Quicken's API is now NULL.

I decide to try ONE STEP UPDATE and see what happens.

This time, I get an ERROR CC-501 on both Chequing and Savings account and it states that the Quicken Server team has been notified.

Ok, I thought. Resetting the accounts didn't work after all, so I might as well try deactivating EWC and try setting it up again from scratch for both Chequing and Savings account.

So off I go into the Account List again and I head for my Chequing account and click Deactivate.

Then it communicates with the server for a few secs and comes back and tells me that it CAN'T deactivate the account now because there are transactions in the register that have been downloaded and need to be accepted!

AHA!

So it did work!

So what does this tell me. I think server side, for my situation with my simple account setup, it seems to be ok but rather Quicken client side is having problems interpreting the information downloaded from the server and that is what is causing these errors. Maybe some flags are not being turned on or off as needed and causing confusion for the application. Just a thought...

So now I go into my Chequing and Savings registers and see that both accounts have transactions that have to be accepted. And I looked at them and they are the correct transactions that needed to be downloaded so that part of the application works as it should.

So after accepting the transactions, I decide to try resetting the Chequing and Savings account again and see what happens.

Reset the Chequing account - I get the dialog box that prompts me which account it the Chequing account from the list. I chose the only account listed - Chequing - and clicked OK.

I then did the same for the SAVINGS account. But the dialog box didn't show me the SAVINGS account as an option, only the Chequing account. So I clicked: None of the above.

and unfortunately, I can't remember what I did from that point on but it was just a few extra steps but what I have just told you guys should give you some insight as to what may be causing the problem.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@John_B: I have observed very similar behaviour; however, I've taken the extra step of pretending to add an extra account so that I can see how the accounts are linked (or not linked, as the case may be) in EWC setup and that's when I'll find one or more "Unknown Type" account(s). In the situation you described, the Chequing account would likely appear to be of "Unknown Type" in EWC setup and that, in my guestimation, is why Quicken doesn't offer to map it for you in the reset dialogue box... because it doesn't offer the "Unknown Type" accounts as accounts that could be mapped.  Consider testing my theory by pretending to Add Account, which takes you to EWC setup and see what you find. The accounts you previously setup should show the correct type and have Ingore in greyed out unpickable pickbox. If you see "Unknown Type" and/or you have the option to select items from the ADD, IGNORE, LINK pick box then you have a problem, which may more may not prevent download.
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John Bacogiannis

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@Artic: Nope! Just tried what you suggested and with screenshots.

So, I reset the chequing account and got Screen shot #2.

Then I go to add a chequing account and I get screen shot #3.
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John Bacogiannis

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So no unknown account types are appearing.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@John_B: Your account setup setup looks perfect. When mine looks like your screen shot (albeit with 10 accounts), EWC works flawlessly. For me, there is perfect correlation between the appearance of Unknown Type accounts and EWC functionality problems. On a side note, I have now added a second account to EWC since executing the steps I described here and, at least so far, I am free of Unknown Tyoe accounts and EWC is working fine - for those two accounts. The QIF export and import process is not perfect though; I expect it will take me 40 hours or so to clean up duplicate transactions and redo reconciliations, etc... but that is a far cry better than starting from scratch given the complexity of my Quicken setup.
(Edited)
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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UPDATE: I have now managed to restore EWC functionality with four of my bank accounts (savings, chequing, credit card) under one of two client card numbers. I found more evidence of bad/phantom/temp accounts (i.e. ACCT_24 and ACCT_2c), but I think/hope I've got all of those cleaned up now. EWC has been running without errors and without any "Unknown Type" accounts for a couple days. Hopefully, it stays stable this week as new transactions become available for download this week.

In the meantime, I am working at cleaning up the artifacts left behind by the QIF export/import cycle. The QIF export/import cycle handles most things well, but there are certain transactions it completely bungles. For example, the QIF export/import process doesn't transfer scheduled transactions (e.g. payroll deposits, bill reminders, etc.). It also completely messes up contributions to Savings Goal accounts. The contributions to savings goals become regular (hard) transfers out instead of soft transfers or commitments to a savings goal. A messy process, but it allowed me to keep my transaction history and my investment setup, including securities, while stripping out the corruption.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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I was able to catch Quicken "red handed" in the act of creating temp accounts during an EWC update. I managed to get screen shots from the OSU update summary of nine (9) Temp accounts that Quicken created in a single OSU using EWC with RBC Royal Bank. The screen shots are pasted below. It is these temp accounts that become invisibly embedded in the Quicken data file and then cause EWC functionality issues. The symptom of this problem is seeing "Unknown Type" in the EWC setup dialogue box (i.e. where you would normally ADD, LINK, or IGNORE accounts at your FI with accounts in your Quicken file. I have removed some personal information; more specifically, I edited out the actual account numbers that followed the Temp_XX_ string. Put simply, EWC decided to download data from actual FI accounts that I never linked to Quicken accounts. The accounts that Quicken downloaded are, in most cases, UNsupported by Quicken; they are of various unsupported types, including Canadian mortgage accounts, unsupported brokerage accounts, TFSA accounts, etc. Yes, you read that correctly, Quicken decided, all on its own, without me taking any action, to download data from nine (9) UNsupported accounts and save the data in new Temp_XX_ accounts in my Quicken data file... and these Temp accounts don't appear in either the Account List or the Category list. In some cases, specifically Temp_17_ it is a credit card account, which is supported, and which was linked to a Quicken account.

I hope the effectively illustrates the Temp_XX_ account mess that can result from a single OSU session with EWC gone bad. 
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markus1957, SuperUser

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temp_ accounts that show up in OSU Summary can be accessed and deleted by clicking on the blue hypertext link for each account; this will open up the register window for the account. Using the "gear" icon in the upper right corner to access Edit Account Details will open a window which has a "Delete Account" button. Before deleting the account you can move any transactions from the temp to the real account. Close/re-open Quicken and run a file validation after deleting the temp_ account(s).
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@markus1957: I wish what you suggested were always true. I have plenty of experience and examples where temp (and other phantom) accounts (and categories) do not appear in either the account or category list... even when "show hidden" is selected. In fact, I currently have an account that doesn't show up in the account list, doesn't show up as a category, but does show up in the online centre. It is a bogus account (ACCT_2c) that was created by Quicken/EWC. I've even sent my data file to Quicken's Product Development team in Bangalore. They tried to surgically remove the temp/phantom account from the datafile using their data file edit tool and that compromised the integrity of the data file... so, I am stuck with it.
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markus1957, SuperUser

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@Artic Hare- I added the comment for the specific example shown in your screenshot to assist other users who stumble upon this post and who are seeing the specific issue posted in the screenshot. To the extent there is a suggestion I've provided elsewhere in this post that is not "true" or does not work as explained, please elaborate in another comment. A temp_ account appearing in Online Center is not an issue that applies to the advice in this comment unless it also shows up in OSU Summary.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@markus1957: The intent of the screen shot was to help demonstrate that the presence of "Unknown Type" in the setup dialogue box can/will make a mess in the datafile. The point/issue of this thread is not how to delete temp accounts from the OSU report. If one happens to notice these Temp accounts in the OSU, you might be able to take action at that point; however, in my experience, if you saw "Unknown Type" in the EWC setup dialogue box, your problems can't be resolved simply by deleting Temp accounts via the OSU report. You've got a bigger problem to fix. The temp accounts are just a symptom of the root issue this thread is addressing - EWC setup indicating "Unknown Type".

The good news is, and the most important point is, we have a process that resolves, in most circumstances, possibly all circumstances, the EWC Unknown Type issue.

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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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I believe that I may have identified a couple of situations that can cause the problems described in this thread to occur. This may not, and probably is not an exhaustive list of situations that trigger the problem, but hopefully is of some use to others (and to Quicken Product Development).

  1. The first situation is to set up EWC (LINK or ADD) for one or more accounts for which there has been no activity for a long time. For example, I have a Line of Credit account, which has had a zero balance and no activity for years, probably more than a decade. LINKing or ADDing one of these no activity history accounts seems to trigger the Temp_**_ and then subsequently the "Unknown Type" issues. One of the symptoms is that Quicken will set such accounts (in the Canadian version of Quicken) to USD even though the account is CAD. I think this is because the FI is not providing any QFX information and Quicken then assumes a default of USD. I can set the currently manually back to CAD, but next time I OSU, the currency will flip back to USD. Clearly, there are issues with setting up EWC for accounts with no activity. I can anticipate that someone is going to ask why I would want to setup EWC for an account that has been unused for a long time... the answer is simply that I'd like to keep tabs on the accounts for nefarious/fraudulent activity. That being said, I have stopped trying to setup EWC for accounts with no activity history because I am confident in stating that it causes problems, big problems.
  2. The second scenario to avoid is a bit more difficult to describe. Normally, if you are trying to set up accounts for EWC, Quicken will propose linking accounts when it believe to have a found a match been a Quicken account and a FI account. I'm not sure what means Quicken uses to make the matches, but when it thinks it finds a match, it proposed to LINK the accounts. What I have discovered, after much grief, is that even when Quicken proposes to LINK a FI account to a Quicken account, you should still go through the pick list and select the Quicken account you want to LINK to. What I have discovered is that Quicken sometimes proposes linking to an account that doesn't exist. I know this sounds weird, but I can demonstrate repeatedly that I have data files where Quicken will propose to link an account at the FI to an account in Quicken where the Quicken account doesn't exist in the Account List. And, yes, I do mean LINK not ADD and, yes, I have tried "view hidden" with the Account List. In my case, Quicken proposes linking one or more FI accounts to accounts in Quicken that are very close in name, but not the same in name as the actual Quicken account. Maybe they are names I used in the past? Regardless, the names proposed by Quicken don't appear in the Account List. If you merrily proceed and allow Quicken to LINK to an account that doesn't really exist in Quicken then this is a recipe for problems, that have the symptoms of creation of TEMP_**_ accounts and "Unknown Type" account(s) appearing in the future when you enter EWC setup.

*** If anyone reading this post has an understanding of the mechanisms Quicken uses to match FI accounts with Quicken accounts and propose to LINK or ADD, I'd welcome sharing of such information. ***


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Rexter

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So it appears, for me at least, the options are to keep using the bad Quicken file and manually download and enter transactions for the FI that isn't working or to make a new Quicken file where everything works/downloads but, after importing everything I can I have to re-create most of my reminders, create new loans for all of my property and rebuild my investments, re link all the FIs online and figure what else is missing.  Or the quicken folks could fix it.  Hmmmm, I know which one I'm hoping for but I think I will struggle on with the bad file, for now at least.
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Rexter

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Good advice.  I tried the less aggressive approach and it seems to have succeeded.  I need to mention that to do step 3 in the online center you have to deactivate online service to ALL FIs or it will tell you that you need to and exit.  My investment was the only exception.
I copied and validated the file 4 times and every time I received a duplicate category message but it didn't tell me what one and I scoured the category list and can't find any duplicates (show hidden checked) so I decided to try setting up online service to the FI that was having trouble and the Unknown type account was now properly identified and the account that had stopped even showing up was also properly listed.

I will set up online service to all the rest of the FIs and see how long it lasts.

Thank you for you help and maybe Quicken will decide to include a fix for this in an update or something.

Kind of wished I had tried the trouble FI after step 3 in the online center (reset CC data) just to see if that was actually the only step needed.  I will give it a few days and post how it goes
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@Rexter: I'm glad that the process worked for you. I have a few questions for you:

  1. If you go into Online Centre and hold Shift+Ctrl while clicking on Contact Info menu, are there any accounts included in the picklist that aren't or shouldn't be actual Quicken accounts in your case (see my example below) and/or are there any accounts of types unsupported for download. In my case, not only do I see ACCT_2c in this list, I also see brokerage accounts for which my FI doesn't support download. More specifically, this list includes accounts for which OSU created temp accounts when it went haywire.
  2. I haven't tried the Shift+Ctrl Send/Update. When you did it, did you get any sense of what action that forced? I understand it was a fix for some people, hence I've included it, but what does it actually do? I Googled it and even Google doesn't know that answer to that question!
  3. I am trying to get Quicken Product Development to pay attention to this issue. I would greatly appreciate it (as would other who have this issue) if would go to the Quicken site, click on Contact Office of the President and send a brief message telling them you've had the "Unknown Type" problem and the information in this thread (give them the link) helped out.
  4. If you haven't already, please LIKE comments in this thread.
Thanks again for the feedback.
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Rexter

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1. @Artic Hare, there are in fact accounts that don't even exist and that do not support anything online, some I created just to manually keep track of things and some closed accounts. The first one listed is *Tax-Deductable Mileage* exactly like that.

The CTRL-Shift Update/Send gives a window and when you proceed it takes only a couple seconds to complete



I will do the contact if I find the link.  Seems I remember they like to hide any useful contact info.

Thanks again for the help and we will see if it holds up
(Edited)
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@Rexter: Mr. Google doesn't know anything about "Reset CC Credentials" either. Bizarre. Best kept secret in the Universe.

The contact information is hidden in plain view: https://www.quicken.com/about-us/team

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BJ

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Thanks for the tip on Tools>Online Center CTRL + SHIFT Update/Send - Reset CC data.  I have Quicken-Premier 2018 US version Windows 10 R6.11 & have had multiple problems with ewc working, deactivate, activate, unknown account errors.  After researching & trying many tips, this one worked for me - at least for now.  Had to deactivate all ewc accounts first, do the reset cc data step & then activate ewc accounts again.  No problems with the unknown account thing after all this.  Also did validate repair multiple times that kept fixing things.  For now it seems to be working across all ewc accounts.  Yeah for that.
(Edited)
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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UPDATE: 

While I have managed to cleanse enough of the corruption out of my data file (using the methods described above) to get OSU working with EWC again, I can still find evidence that there is residual corruption remaining in the data file. An example of this evidence is provided in the screen shot below. The account "ACCT_2c" shown in the screen shot below was not created by me, it does not appear in the account list (even with show hidden checked), and it does not appear in the category list (again, even with show hidden checked). Furthermore, Quicken is sometimes proposing this account as a transfer category for transactions downloaded by EWC, i.e. Quicken suggests that some transactions are for category "[ACCT_2c]", which doesn't appear in the Account List or Category List.

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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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It doesn't appear on any list or pull down. As mentioned, I even gave my entire data file to Quicken's Product Development team in Bangalore and they couldn't get rid of the phantom account without destroying the integrity of the datafile. It doesn't seem to be causing any issues. EWC works fine and I seem to have arrested any other corruption issues. I might try the manually typing trick, but I think the issue is that there is no register associates with the label. I'll give it a try sometime... on a copy, of course.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@markus1957: I finally got around to trying your suggestion:

Regarding the hidden account, ACCT_2c ; one means of trying to delete the account is to create a $1 transfer from a normal working account into this account. If it is available in the transfer pull-down, use that. Otherwise type it manually into the category as [ACCT_2c]. Then save and right-click Go to Matching Transfer. That will switch you into the hidden ACCT_2c register. Try the gear icon, Edit Account Details, Delete. It works sometimes but sometimes the Account Details window will not spawn. 
I got so far as to bring up the ACCT_2c register, but, as you suggested sometimes happens, the Account Details does not manifest. The ACCT_2c account still does not show in the Account List.
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markus1957, SuperUser

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As long as your working in a file copy, a couple of things to try. Can you enter a manual transaction once you get into the register? Close/Open Quicken, use the Edit>Find/Replace to get back into the register, then try deleting again.
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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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Again, I was able to do everything you suggested up to the point of attempting to delete the account. It still doesn't manifest the Account Details dialogue.

I can enter transactions, delete transactions, make transfers, etc. I just can delete the account, which is not listed in the Account List or the Category List, even with show hidden checked. The only place that the account can be seen is in the Online Centre.
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markus1957, SuperUser

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That account seems to have taken on the status of the special hidden accounts deep in Quicken like the "Unspecified..." and Tax Treatment accounts. They can't be deleted either even though you can access at least some of them with these tricks.
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Clark Fowler

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Hello. I don't normally post to the community but I had to post this and thank the people in this thread.

There is a lot of information in this thread and I tried to combine it to see if I could resolve my issues. most of them were related to Wells Fargo account (6 of them shared somewhat between two userids. (1 checking, 2 savings, 2 credit cards (one in my name and one in my wife's name and a mortgage) So as you might suspect getting Wells Fargo to work properly has been a priority but also a nightmare until today.

Today, after I did the update sequence for the new Quicken Id (instead of Intuit ID) I followed the following steps based on information in this log:

Prior to 09/20/2017
Before doing the above steps I have tried multiple times to get one Wells Fargo credit card setup for one-step unsuccessfully.

Some of the features I am using are Budgets, Debt Reduction, Retirement planning. Mobile

I have had multiple situations while working on a split transaction where Quicken cancelled
At the time I had a split transaction that I had modified multiple time while saving it multiple
times and part way through getting it the way I wanted it QUICKEN canceled

Done on 9/20/2017
File Copy - created 2013cpy
Open new copy
All options
File validation
Rebuild investing log
Delete existing price history
Reset all printer setting
Backup
Close quicken
File Copy - created 2013cpycpy
Open new copy
File validation
Backup
Close quicken
File Copy - created 2013cpycpycpy
Open new copy
File validation
Backup
Close quicken
File Copy - created 2013cpycpycpycpy
Open new copy
File validation
Delete all one-setup connections
Backup
Close quicken
File validation
Setup Wells Fargo accounts
USER1 id found 5 accounts, 2 were ignored
1 checking - able to link -shared with USER2
2 saving - able to link -shared with USER2
1 mortgage - ignored  expected - not shared - not supported
1 credit card - ignored  -shared with USER2
Setup Wells Fargo accounts
Different user found 2 credits cards from above
1 checking - ignored  -shared with USER1
2 saving - ignored -shared with USER11 Credit card ignored above able to link -shared with USER1
1 card to this user only ignored (0 balance) -  not shared
16 other accounts link successfully
Some had 2 accounts
Same had 2 accounts with 0 balances
Some only had 1 account.
Everything I wanted to setup was setup correctly except the Wells Fargo accounts
Backup
Close quicken
File Copy   created 2017
Tried to add the missing CC account from Wells Fargo and it only found the one CC that it found the first time but the checking account and the 2 savings account (which is shared with the first user that was able to link them showed up as ignored. I think this could be correct but I am not sure.


Uninstalled quick mobile
Installed quicken mobile
Tried to sync my new copy 2017 quicken mobile
Logon didn't show my new file, closed quicken
Had some issues getting my password and after several 6 digit codes was able to get into sync data
Reset cloud data
Data synced successfully
Logged in to quicken Mobile
Waited for all accounts to sync
Hooray all my accounts synced successfully include the four the success were setup but...
MORE IMPORTANTLY
I didn't have to sign-in to Wells Fargo, it worked during the initial account syncing process.
I HAVE HAD TO SIGN IN TO MY WELLS FARGO ACCOUNTS FOR OVER A YEAR WHEN I OPENED MOBILE
THEY HAD SYNCED AUTOMATICALLY 

I may have a party to celebrate. Hope it works as well for you as it did for me.

I still have 1 account at Wells Fargo that is not setup.

But no other account that I have failed other than the on Wells Fargo credit card with a 0 bal. Other 0 balance credit card were synced however.

The issue identified appear to be:                                                                                                          1 A limit in the number of accounts that can be setup in onset setup process no matter how many accounts are found (appears to be 4 or possibly 4 of the same non credit card type.

2 Doesn't seem to properly identify accounts if non-credit cards and credit cards are found in the same setup process. I say 4 because the first time of the setup process with USER1, it found 5 accounts but the 4th one is not supported with QWC (mortgage) and the 5th on was a credit card that was ignored. However when I did the setup with the USER2, there were 5 accounts found:  3 were ignored because they were found by USER1 so they were ignored, the forth one was the one credit card missed during the USER1 setup but number 5 account was ignored instead of being recognized as a valid credit card account.  

I hope this information helps current users on this thread as well as any quicken Technical people that may review this thread.

Good luck

Clark

           

 







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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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@Clark: Glad the information helped your resolve most of your issues. There is a maximum number of connections that can be set up on one day. I don't know exactly what the number is, but the Quicken PD team has indicated that there is a maximum that was imposed for security reasons. Hence, for people with a large number of EWC connections, they advise setting them up by adding one access ID per day.

I have not found zero balance, per se, to be an issue, but what is an issue is when an account does not have any transactions within the transaction window history (and that might be true of a zero balance account). So, if, for example, your bank provides a 60 day transaction history for Express Web Connect, then you will run into issues if you try to set up EWC for any account that has had zero transactions in 61 or more days. I have demonstrated that this is a repeatable issue for EWC setup. In my view, it is a defect. For this reason, I have a couple accounts for which I don't configure EWC. For example, I have a line of credit, which I haven't used in years. It is an "active" account... but with no activity, if you follow. My EWC works fine if I ignore that account, but the moment I try and LINK it, then things start going squirrelly. Oh, and, as a test, I've tried creating a new Q file and adding only that account and that also results in problem. I've tested many flavours of this and, plain and simple, it is problematic to try to set up EWC for an account with no transaction history. One symptom of the resultant problems is that the currency of the account in Q might change on it's own. For example, an account in Q set up as USD will get switched to CAD if connected to a USD that has NO transaction history.
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Clark Fowler

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Thanks for the reply Artic. I understand what you are saying, but the pattern you described doesn't seem to fit my scenario. 3 Major reasons I say that.

1 I have 2 ids that access the Wells Fargo account. As I mention, that bank has 6 accounts, 1 checking, 2 savings a mortgage and 2 credit cards. The first one I did only recognized 3 of the accounts but the forth one was a mortgage and the fifth was a credit card. So I did userid2 and it ignored the first 3 accounts (linked with the previous id) and the first credit card but not the 5th credit card.

2 I then synced within an hour or less 16 more accounts some of which have never had transactions but still were able to sync. I want to sync them because I use it to ensure that no else is using then fraudulently.

3 I don't know about now since the last update with the QUICKEN ID, but prior to that time I have tried time and time again on multiple days to add the credit card that was setup with the second userid and it still would only recognize a maximum of 4 accounts. I am going to continue to try at a later date to see if I can setup the final account that I have.

Again I thank you for all the information that you and others have posted on the thread.

I wish you all continued good luck in getting any issues that you may be having resolved.

  

  

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Arctic Hare (H&B 2019 Canadian), SuperUser

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As documented extensively by others, Wells Fargo is a special case... with many issues and challenges. I am speaking in general; circumstances may differ for special cases, such as WF.