I’m confused

wave with sequential blips

is there a way to create a new blip outside of the first blip?
i mean, a wave as a sequence of blips, just like in google wave or wiab.
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  • 1
    when you put the cursor below the blip then ctrl + enter you reply to the blip below the blip. Isnt that the sequential you mean?
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    It has also been asked and up-voted by many here: http://feedback.rizzoma.com/topic/906...

    I really won't be able to use Rizzoma on a daily basis without regular blips/replies/posts. IMHO inline replies make sense only if they can compare to regular replies... Inline-replying only is quite a mess.

    Set us free from the first-blip jail !!!
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  • 4
    Great, I look forward to this feature being implemented, Vova.

    Also, the way Rizzoma's new blip creation has worked for me is that if I click on somebody's blip and press Ctrl+Enter, my new blip is created there, but if they are still editing, any more entries go after my blip, so I have cut their blip.

    Is there a way of always creating the new blip BELOW the other one, so that we don't have to wait for the other user to finish editing or cut into their blip?
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  • 3
    I agree, that's another reason why regular blips are needed: cutting someone else blip in two should always be an intentional action.

    It's a great and powerful tool for replying/commenting in the context, but only if it has been made on purpose. Right now, with the UI and with inline replies by default, new users will constantly cut other's content in two, without even understanding why it happens.
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  • 3
    Definitely need a way to start a new blip! Very confusing with only replies within replies within replies.
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  • I’m sad
    There's no Reply button on the first blip, (the external one).
    On Rizzoma, a wave is composed of a text (main blip) plus blips inside that text.
    This is not what we are used to.

    A wave should be composed of a sequence of blips, not by a single blip, containing all the other blips.

    Current rizzoma wave:
    [
    Main Blip

    [Reply 1],
    [Reply 2]
    ]
    Sequential Blips:
    [Blip 1],
    [Blip 2]

    There should not be a concept of Main blip.

    Imagine if you are chatting:
    On Rizzoma:
    [
    Hi,
    [ - Hi]
    [How are you]
    [- ...]
    ]
    On Google wave and WIAB:
    [Hi]
    [- Hi]
    [How are you]
    [ - ...]

    In case you still does not understand:
    Create a new wave on rizzoma,
    see that gray area bellow the first message?
    we want to add a new message on that gray area, (a new message, sequential to the first one, and which it is not inside the first message)
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  • First of all, thankyou for doing Rizzoma. I was so sad when Google annoucned and stoped support for Wave.

    I use it mainly as a chat with one of my friends when we are at work. So we can keep in touch and have conversations about everything and nothing while at work.

    I think Wave had 3 key features :

    - BLIP IN PLACE : You can reply to a blip and it places your answer just after the blip (and not at the bottom of the whole conversation, as is the case with gmail or imageboards)
    - NOTIFICATIONS : You are notified of new posts and modifications
    - WHO DIW WHAT : It is easy to understand who did what

    Now, Rizzoma :

    BLIP IN PLACE :
    This is the same in Rizzoma. However you should be able to create a new root blip

    NOTIFICATIONS :
    Room for improvement :
    a. First of all Rizzoma doesn't have the number of modifications (Wave showed you a badge with "1", "2", "3", etc.)
    b. Second, I think it is confusing to higlihgt the whole blip and not only the reply itself. I think you should only higlight with your green vertical bar, the exact place of new replies
    c. I'm not sure if I modify something, then connect myself to the conversation and hit "Next reply" it erases the vertical green bar (this is ok). But does it erases it also for the other participants ?? If so you should consider "new replies" to depend on the user and not an "absolute new reply" that depends on the wave, without checking who already saw the green bar.

    WHO DID WHAT :
    Room for improvement :
    a. INDENTATION : I think it is not very clear when you see a reply to a blip. This could easily be fixed if there was a little more indentations in the replys.

    Well, anyway, thankyou very very much for this project. It is the best wave alternative I found (and I looked for a lot of time)

    This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
    3 key features to add to Rizzoma (Root blip, indentation and clarification of who wrote what).
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  • Diego write:

    Well, thanks for the replies. I see you do have indentation but that's why I said :

    "a little more indentation"

    I understand what you try to do. Your user interface is cleaner than Google Wave, it is more elegant (thiner lines, smaller buttons) and I do like that. However sometimes too much "elegance" kills the "usability". One must then find a compromise.

    My opinion is that the indentation Rizzoma has now is very subtle. Compare it to that of Google wave and you will see a big difference :

    Rizzoma :

    Hello main blip main blip main blip
    -Reply 1 reply 1 reply 1
    --Reply 2 reply2 reply2
    Return to main blip main blip

    Wave :

    Hello main blip main blip main blip
    ----Reply 1 reply 1 reply 1
    --------Reply 2 reply2 reply2
    Return to main blip main blip

    That is what I meant. I think Rizzoma is not as clear as wave. But it is more elegant.

    Anyway, thankyou for your replies I hope my remarks are of some help to your project.
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  • This reply was removed on 2012-02-06.
    see the change log
  • 2
    I do like the cleaner look of inline replies however I'm not sure you've grasped the root issue here. What people are asking for is effectively to not have a Root Blip.

    Rather then having

    [root blip]
    -[blip]
    --[blip]
    -[blip]

    We'd like to see (in a somewhat similar fashion to the original wave)

    [blip]
    -[blip]
    [blip]

    As a workaround for our group at the moment we've just all elected not to type anything in the root blip (except perhaps a date or title)
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  • I’m sad
    6
    This issue reminds me of Steve Jobs' "You're holding it wrong" sentence about the iPhone antenna problem...

    Obviously a wave can be used with only inline replies inside the first "summary" blip, but does that mean that every user should be forced to use waves that way?

    A lot of users don't find this way to use your product intuitive at all, are you just going to say them "you're using it wrong"?
    • view 2 more comments
    • We would have to choose, blip after blip, those that would be collapsible and those that won't... That's just so complicated.... Having two types of replies ("regular" and "inserted" -or "collapsible" and "non-collapsible") is just soooooooo much easier!

      Please, stop this mess of inline in inline in inline in inline...

      We want to be able to create a new root-level blip whenever we have to say something new. Why should we be forced to insert new content into previous and possibly quite-unrelated blips?

      C'mon! Have you never created a not-inline blip in GWave???
    • I very like Rizzoma's possibly to collapse any blip, not only inline! And if You want do not collapse some blips when pressing "collapse all", there are must be any way to separate this blips from others.
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  • We create Minimal Valuable Product(MVP), and in our MVP we have no replay blip. But now, we think about it, and our vision is different. And hard to translate our vision in english and in text. That why we create video answer. In next 2-3 day, we give video answer for this problem.
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    • I understand this different. of corse.
      Why you want "real replay? Can you show me your waves with this case? Screenshoot? Or import in rizzoma?
    • For many reasons, first, so you can begin a response while the other person is still typing, without cutting into their response (this was one of the main features of wave). Second, it's a lot cleaner, and it wouldn't mark the root blip unread every time there is a new reply like it does now.
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  • 2
    I think it is tradition habit, it is just way of thinking about replies and topics. It's sluggishness of the mind.

    To cheat this thinking and keep only inline replies in rizzoma You really can make trick described by Adam Cooper at https://getsatisfaction.com/rizzoma/t...

    But also You should solve two issues:
    1) remove store of insertions of inline reply into existing reply as editing this reply. Inserting of inline reply should be not editing, it should be above this.
    2) inserting new reply to whole existing reply (by they border's button RE) must be anchored to end of this existing reply. Especially when existing reply still in editing. It can be solved just by inserting this reply after editor's cursors. If he want, he can move cursor right and continue writing after new reply, but if he continue writing without moving, it must still write before this new reply.

    BTW, target place for RE button now is unclear for me: Some times it insert reply into my cursor position, some times into the end of reply and starts joined reply under current reply, some times it starts new reply as reply unjoined with current reply and I still can't understand rules of this behavior. I think RE button must always insert new reply just under old reply which own this instance of RE button.
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  • 5
    Here's another reason for having root-level blips: Rizzoma makes it impossible to figure out who has written what in the first-summary-blip.

    With root level blips, each point of the summary would have it's own dedicated blip. See screenshots below.

    With Rizzoma:


    With Wave-in-a-Box:
    • view 9 more comments
    • I was wondering why this "root-level blip" issue was always getting answers like "if we do X,Y or Z will that solve the problem?" but now I think I've understood: despite marking this issue as "Under consideration" it seems like you absolutely don't want to ever implement root-level blips. Looks like some kind of taboo... :-/

      I hope you'll be able to achieve Wave-like replies without difference in user experience, but honestly, I find it hard to imagine with only one type of blip (GWave had 3: root, indented and inline).

      But I agree with you it's mostly a user experience issue. For me part of the problem is that I have this feeling of being forced to make the wave grow by stretching it from the middle. In Gwave my feeling was that the wave was getting bigger by adding new content at the bottom (forum style) + adding comments and debate from the inside (inline style). In Rizzoma I have to add new content in the middle... I have the feeling of being in a forum where you can't post new messages but can only make sub-posts inside the first post, making it bigger and more complex from the inside...
    • >I find it hard to imagine with only one type of blip
      One type in structure.
      In interface we can have many type of blip. This type depend on when, ore why and how they created.
      And user will have difference visualisation of blips. "Re" button in rizzoma, show linier like in GW now. And we will create another UX from GW.

      I think we can аchieve this two goal:
      1. We can create difference type of blip.
      2. We want to save only tree in structure .
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  • a answer to a question should not be contained inside the question itself.
    on rizzoma this works well if you are replying a reply, but not if you are replying the root question
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    • so why dont all the replies stay inside the blip if this is the correct way?
      i mean, start a wave, type something and reply with the text ABC
      then reply ABC

      why dont the reply of ABC stay inside the ABC blip?

      keep this behavior and the wave will be
      -
      --
      ---
      ----
      -----
      ------
      -------
      --....---

      imagine a long wave...

      in my opinion, a reply should always come bellow the question (except inline replies)

      we should not be forced to always reply inline
    • Yes, exactly for visual compactness, an ending reply in any reply are linearized under its parent's reply.
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  • 3
    as i can see, rizzoma is not like google wave
    rizzoma is for collaborative editing of a document (aka topic), which supports inline comments.

    on the other hand, wave is for structuring messages, which a message can be viewed / edited as documents.

    rizzoma works best for people writing a single document, not for general messages and conversation

    wave model works great for both cases
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    • Vova (Official Rep) March 07, 2012 13:06
      Yes Jerry, you right. And thanks for your persistence. You help us change our mind.
      We are working on new interface. When first sketch will be ready we'll invite you to discuss if you like.

      Thanks again.
    • This comment was removed on 2012-04-02.
      see the change log
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  • Vova (Official Rep) February 29, 2012 08:23
    We made improvements on reply button.

    we are happy to report you about a change in Reply (RE) button's functionality - it doesn't break into the sentence being edited, but puts a reply at the end instead.

    0/posts/T3Xz9ygbVmW
    • view 4 more comments
    • +1 for somewhat like Ctrl+Enter and Shift+Enter
    • Vova (Official Rep) March 07, 2012 10:32
      Great idea about shortcut for reply! I think we'll make it
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  • Adding my vote here. In Google Wave it was easy to see who said what, while in Rizzoma it's kind of confusing when you can comment anywhere in the post.
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  • I’m frustrated
    1
    Congrats on the new UI, it's really nice looking.
    Sadly the issue discussed here is still relevant.

    A lot have already been written here so I won't add much, just a screenshot.

    Do you think it's normal that just a few blips during a few minutes with only 2 participants creates such a complicated / scattered structure?

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  • Vova (Official Rep) May 30, 2012 18:42
    Yes, you right. We understand that problem with threaded discuss still here. And we are working on it. But solution isn't ready. May be you remember as I said that would talk you when it would have ready. I hadn't told:) But I will.

    I promise it will.
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  • 3
    There are also federation concerns if Rizzoma will not support the sibling blips as defined by the wave protocol. As it stands, a Rizzoma topic is not a wave, but a subset of wave functionality. A wave can fully represent a topic but a topic cannot fully represent a wave. So how will Rizzoma federate with WiaB for example? Just allow its users to view and edit the topic's subset of the entire wave?

    I added more detail in the Roadmap topic under "Federation."
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  • We will do reply as in WIAB, and i hope we will solve this task next month.
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  • I’m amused
    This issue should be marked as "solved" (for a long time).
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