Tracking Cash

Based on customer feedback, I've created this post to collect ideas on what our cash feature might look like.

In your responses, it would be most helpful if you:

1. Describe the PROBLEM that you face as an investor that you're wanting solved.

2. Help us define the feature by providing SPECIFIC details about what you'd want it to do.

***

"Cash" in the context of a portfolio application can mean different things to different people. We're keen to triangulate the challenges you face as investors, your expectation of what you want this feature to do, and what we're capable of building.

On one hand this feature might allow you to create, modify, and track a simple cash balance in the context of your portfolio, or maybe you expect your cash holding to affect your overall performance calculation. You may want an interface to reconcile a cash balance to each transaction. Additionally, some clients may define cash as the amount available for investment, or from dividends received, whilst others may view this is as a way to track fixed interest securities.

By gathering this information we can identify the most common requirements, and what sort of development effort is required.

Doug
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  • This reply was removed on 2018-02-17.
    see the change log
  • 1
    First, congrats on getting this up and running.

    A few suggestions for later iterations (some have already been suggested and I agree):

    1. Bulk Uploading / Import
    2. Recurring Transactions - e.g. fees, interest (can be done on an exact or "estimated" basis - with the estimate able to be easily updated for actuals). Permit any periodicity i.e not limited to just monthly, weekly, daily etc.
    3. Ablity to transfer cash between accounts in different FX - perhaps have a "FX rate" and a "fee" field (With fee specifiable in either target or origin currency)
    4. Agree with auto posting of dividends, buys/sells (I know this is planned in the second phase) - although would want buy/sells to be specified by trade (as may be funded from different sources)
    5. On "negative" balances - i.e. loan accounts / margin loans, permit an interest rate to be set for a period, and a compounding period. e.g. daily compounding, interest rate for period 1 January 2017-30 June 2017 to be x%, interest rate for 1 July 2017-31 Dec 2017 to be y% etc. Guess the same could apply for positive balances... but I am always in debt!
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  • Hi,

    Thank you for the new cash item.
    I have understood stage 2 will allow for automatically posting of cash transactions as a result of buys, sells..etc.
    Wondering if cash affecting the overall performance will also be available on stage 2.

    Thanks,

    Ignacio
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  • I use Commsec which has an attached CDIA trading account and the new cash account facility is a great start and when developed should allow all investment to be managed in the one place.

    For the next stage I would like to see the buy, sell and dividend boxes have a selection button to allow the cash component of a deposit or withdrawal to be automatically applied to the trading account. The taxable income report should include interest so the accountant receives all income in the one report.

    If there is a feature to allow bank data to be downloaded and imported some smarts would be needed to avoid duplications.

    Personally I do not mind manually entering monthly interest and the occasional "special" entries although I appreciate that anyone who uses their trading account for day to day personal use would not agree.

    A great start and I will be interested to see how it progresses.
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  • In terms of tracking non AUD Cash...

    I use CommSec International a lot and therefore have cash sitting in USD, HKD, GBP etc. Hence without the ability to enter and FX rate for moving cash either to from Australia (which will have a different rate than what you guys use due to it being the bank's wholesale rate at that point in time when the transfer occurs) it doesn't help alot with overseas cash holdings. Good initiative otherwise.

    PS: I currently track my overseas cash using a Custom Instrument for each currency set to Fixed Interest, Interest on Maturity (@0% because there is none) with Maturity Date set way in the future. That allows me to track my FX balances along with FX rates at the time of Deposit, Withdrawal, Buys, Sells and Divs in each currency along with Comments etc. I can also see my FX holdings in any reports.

    To be honest it would be great if you just created/added a Custom Investment Category for Cash allowing for various overseas currencies. This also has the benefit of seeing holdings in both AUD and Native Ccy.

    Cheers,
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  • 1
    As feedback on usage so far @ben, I find that due to the manual nature of the feature in V.1 I'm only updating my accounts once per month. Obviously if buys/sells/dividends were automated, then I'd be more inclined to maintain it with deposits/withdrawals from my portfolio.

    So far the feature has been great to see in the diversity report and total portfolio value, the % of cash compared to equities.
    • Hi Duncan,

      Many thanks for that feedback. It's good to hear the value you are getting from the feature as it currently exists.

      We so often only hear about things when they don't work.

      I'm not surprised that you find the feature only partially useful without automatic trade and payout syncing.

      That is something we aim to deliver on soon.
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  • Great to see the Add Cash Account feature and as I realise it is a work in progress here is where I see the present shortcomings.

    Cash kept in overseas accounts should reflect exchange rate movements just as Sharesight does for shares.

    Should be possible to link individual cash accounts to a custom report.

    While I accept that it would be nice to see sales and purchases automatically represented and I would welcome that feature it is possible to do it manually but my previous two suggestions have no manual alternative and possiblky not require a lot of programming work?

    While on Custom Reports it should be possible to exclude Sold Shares
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  • Guys, I've been using the manual accounts for some months now and it's going well. I can see one obvious shortcoming is that the various income and expense items I am manually entering are not integrated into any other Sharesight reports. eg If I earn or pay interest in a manual cash account this net interest figure should form part of the taxable income report. There probably needs to be several standardised revenue and expense categories in the manual cash accounts which are automatically incorporated into the broader Sharesight report framework where appropriate. Thoughts?
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  • The below suggestions would be beneficial:

    1. The provision to Enter the details and amount of a nominated cash account;

    2. Each trade entered via Sharesight, would see the nominated cash account automatically credited or debited (as per an online trading account) and/or with the ability to manually enter same;

    3. To be able to manually enter such entries as deposits, withdrawals and interest received, and for interest received to be included in the taxable income report; and

    4. For the nominated cash account to be included (weight) in the performance calculations. See below thread for issues relating to performance reporting.

    https://getsatisfaction.com/sharesigh...
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  • Hi Matthew, Nick,

    The next feature that we are actively working on is to allow for the automatic syncing of trade deposits and withdrawals to a nominated cash account.

    We'd like to measure the take-up of that new feature before exploring these other ideas. At least initially.

    Regards
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  • 1
    Being able to get an idea of annual returns on net cash flow into the cash account would be good, as that shows the 'true' performance.
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  • Can anyone advise on how to include my brokerage account interest earned in sharesight?

    Thanks
    Nick
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  • I've been using the manual cash account feature for many months now and all is working well.
    I'd like to add to the wish list for the taxable income report to include any interest debits or credits (and perhaps fees and fee reimbursements), as reflected in the cash account entries.
    I currently make use of the "interest payment" category to reflect interest earned on a positive cash balance and I use the generic "fee" category for interest paid on negative cash account balances (margin loans). It would be a bit neater if we had both an "interest earned" and an "interest paid" category to cope with positive and negative cash balances.

    Many thanks
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  • I’m frustrated!
    1
    In the light of Ben's last post thought I would re-post my comment from 6 months ago.

    As below I see lack exchange rate movements as the most important deficiency, anyone else agree?

    Re-post: Great to see the Add Cash Account feature and as I realise it is a work in progress here is where I see the present shortcomings.

    Cash kept in overseas accounts should reflect exchange rate movements just as Sharesight does for shares.

    Should be possible to link individual cash accounts to a custom report.

    While I accept that it would be nice to see sales and purchases automatically represented and I would welcome that feature it is possible to do it manually but my previous two suggestions have no manual alternative and possiblky not require a lot of programming work?

    While on Custom Reports it should be possible to exclude Sold Shares

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  • I keep the portfolios for a funds management business. We have 4 portfolios with between 20 and 40 holdings in each. Within each portfolio we have sub-groups for Aus listed, US listed, Aus CFDs, US CFDs, Aus Unlisted, etc as required.

    Each portfolio has an AUD bank account for all equities and an AUD bank account for CFDs.

    The missing piece of Sharesight for me is that the buys/sells do not flow through to the bank accounts. Hence the appeal of the (very slick) auto entry of trades is torpedoed by the need to then go and manually add the cash effect to the cash account. I would like to see each of my sub-groups with an option of which particular cash account they point to.

    It would be good to have an exchange rate option so that if entering, say, a USD trade, it can be converted to AUD. This happens when we trade CFDs because whatever currency is traded, it always comes to our CFD account in AUD.

    Thanks
    Tim
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  • I’m impatient
    2
    I find the implementation of cash accounts rudimentary. Slightly friendlier than the way I used to manage cash but only just. It took a long time between the first posting about the feature and the current release. I hope it doesn't take as long before we see a more fully featured release. At the very least supporting the automatic depositing of dividends.
    It does make me wonder what I'm getting for my annual fee. At present my 2 major concerns are the lack of proper support for cash and the performance. I think the latter is fundamental and would like to see that addressed instead of many of the other add-ons that are of no interest to me.
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  • Hi All,

    Today we introduced a major update to our cash account feature.

    You can now elect one of your manual cash accounts to be your nominated trading cash account (as long as the cash account currency matches your portfolio currency).

    Once you enable this feature, all future trades will create a corresponding deposit or withdrawal in your nominated account.

    You can find the setting under your portfolio settings:


    You can view the cash records in the nominated cash account:


    You can create cash records for trades already in your portfolio by opening a new 'Manage Synced Trades' modal:


    To do so, select the sync from date you want and then 'sync all trades'.

    If you make a mistake, you can select the 'remove synced transactions' and try again. The feature is quite flexible in that it allows you to 're -run' the cash transactions back into your cash account without deleting your manual cash entries.

    We hope you find this a useful feature.
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  • thanks for the update! can i confirm that this works with trades created using API calls?
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  • 2
    Great work Ben, I hope we can at some stage progress on the following:

    1. The trading cash account(s) to automatically include the interest in the taxable income report;
    2. That cash in such accounts can become part of the performance calculations.

    Keep up the good work.
    Nick
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  • I’m Disappointed
    Not much use to me. My portfolio currency is only one of 3 I hold trading accounts in and probably the least active due to New Zealand's small market. Why can't we associate one currency account with each stockmarket?
    And where's the ability to automatically record a dividend in a cash account when accepted?
    These both seem like pretty basic features. I'm disappointed still about how long it takes for new functionality to be released.
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  • Nick,

    Have you considered linking a Xero account to Sharesight? It will provide much more extensive cash functionality than what is built into Sharesight.
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  • 1
    I looked at that as soon as it was announced. Unfortunately the only option if I wanted multiple currencies was ridiculously expensive for what I'm doing. I'm an individual with just under one million of my own assets (was just over but hey, there is a bit of volatility around) so I can't really justify that cost. If they just did a simple option that supported multiple currencies then I would consider it but frankly I struggle with justifying the cost of your product.
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  • Amazing work Ben and team!

    I feel like I've been given my first set of car keys, after having been catching the bus for so long. Really looking forward to getting this up and running.

    Just to clarify, you can select a different cash account per portfolio?

    Also if you have AUD and USD holdings in one portfolio and your cash account is in AUD, what happens with the transactions for the USD stocks?
    • Hi Duncan,

      Thanks for the feedback!

      Yes the cash account syncing works purely in the context of a portfolio, so you need to set up different trade syncing cash accounts for each portfolio.

      Your trade syncing cash account needs to be in the same currency as your portfolio. Any foreign currency transactions will be converted back to your local currency using the exchange rate recorded against the transaction.
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  • How do I record brokerage cash account interest so that it displayed in the taxable income report and to do so without affecting the performance figures?

    Thanks
    Nick
    • Hi Nick,

      We have a piece of work scheduled that once completed will result in all cash transactions of type 'interest payment' displaying in the taxable income report for the relevant period.

      Any interest payment amounts recorded in our manual account feature add to your overall portfolio value, but are not factored into our performance calculations.

      So I think this new feature will deliver what you are after.
    • Thanks Ben, this will be helpful indeed, more efficient and less paper at tax time.

      In regard to performance reporting, if it is possible to order trades based on time, you may wish to consider having the manual cash accounts in the performance figures.

      Many thanks for your reply.
      Nick
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  • Hi Ben,

    Great to hear that cash account interest payments will finally be included in the taxable income report. I've been using manual cash accounts in various currencies to record both interest received on positive balances and interest paid on negative balances. Interest received is easily handled via the "interest payment" transaction classification but there is no equivalent classification for interest paid (and it's currently not possible to enter a negative interest paid amount to handle this). I've been getting around this problem by recording all interest outgoings on negative cash balances as category "fee". If received interest is going to be included in taxable income it would be a good idea to also handle interest expense in the taxable report. I imagine this would require another field (interest expense) or the ability to enter negative amounts in the existing interest payments field.

    Thanks,

    Matthew
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  • I’m frustrated
    If I have understood this, it is a real disappointment! I have investments in USA, Australia and NZ but each portfolio is not unique to each country as each contains investments from each country. It appears from reading the above and especially the comments to and from Duncan it will not be possible to have a cash account for each. I also thought that if you sold or bought securities it would automatically update the appropriate cash account. Why can you not link via Holding Information a security to the appropriate cash account and then buying or selling all would be automatic.

    I have read the help and the above posts so please someone tell me I have missed something as what I have found seems woefully inadequate!
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  • I know the team are looking at more multi currency functionality. In the meantime a multi-currency Xero account linked to Sharesight will do what you require. That is what I use for my situation which sounds similar to yours. It does come at an additional cost, however.

    Andrew Bird
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  • 1
    I also use basic Xero to manage my trust but as others have remarked it is an additional cost to have multi currency and cash is something that Sharesight should manage natively as it is part of any portfolio and should be part of reports.
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