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Debunking Henry Gruver

I am grieved to see you writing about Henry Gruver. 20 yrs ago as a lay person I was able to prove the falsity of this man. To call him a "man of God" is an insult to God and those who do truly love God & know Him. I attended a meeting in Omaha, took notes and checked into what he was saying. Mr. Gruver had no clue I had verifiable access to information regarding the lies he was spouting. I also checked into his checkered past & the lies he told to many people. He was banned from KCRO radio in Omaha because of his lies. He (& people like Ron Wyatt) are nothing more than modern day charlatans. They have been bilking the Body of Christ and foolish Christians who don't KNOW God intimately for years !! When you know our Heavenly Father, the counterfeit stands out like a sore thumb. I was hoping to find Godly people I could support
when I attended his meeting. Crying over what I discovered, God told me to go read Revelations 2:2. I had no idea what it was going to say. It states 'you have found these men to be imposters & liars'. Enough said. God desires us to be a blessing and lead others toward Him, not fear-mongers who are out to make a living & gain off His Children.
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  • I’m sad
    3
    And I am sorry to say I believe you in regard to Henry Gruver. The first red flag for me was his touting the "Toronto Blessing" and I'm fairly certain I even heard him name Benny Hinn with a straight face. As I am wont to do, I apologized for Henry. "Oh, he's just so busy doing his own thing he never has time to find out who the charlatans are! He just doesn't know any better."

    I was so thrilled with his never-ending stories of how his love and faith got him out of dangerous situations while converting the "bad guys," not to mention his healing every patient from the Russian hospital on nationwide Russian TV. Maybe all those things DID happen. Who am I to say they did not? However, with all those FANTASTIC stories you'd think at least two or three witnesses to the truth of them would come forward. Why haven't they?

    The next thing that really seemed odd to me was Henry's vision featuring Prince Charles in a role as a godly man reprimanding the U.S. for going to war "without God." Later in another sermon Henry told a long story. The moral to the story? Prayer walker gets to stand right next to Prince Charles and Princess Diana. He told the story I would be more likely to read in a fan (celebrity) magazine, and the only "spiritual" drift of the story was that if you would do things like he (Henry) does, you too may one day rub elbows with royalty. What?

    Oh, but then it got worse. A couple more sermons and he hedges in by saying, "I used to preach against this!" What? Gold dust falling from the ethers at a church gathering. And WHY is it okay now? Apparently because he figures if it happens to HIM, then it's got to be from the Creator because he's just that close to the Father. Next thing I'm hearing from him is that JEWELS are falling on and around him from the ethers: rubies, diamonds, sapphires too. Again he just presumes it is from YeHoVaH, our Lord and Creator. Couldn't possibly be enchantments from the enemy when Henry is in the house? Sorry, Henry, you really lost me with that one. I'm not interested in signs and wonders. If it is not DEFINITELY and definitively from Christ Jesus I'm outta there. This is nothing new by the way. I had two Catholic friends who got showered in gold dust at a local church -- the run right across the street from the chapel in Austin, Texas that featured a weeping Jesus (if you were "blessed" enough to see it). I know my friends really saw the gold dust -- but I also know that the Catholic Church is apostate, so I'm not impressed.

    As if that were not enough, I got on a jag of watching videos of Gruver in Korea (and other Asian countries). I believe it was in Korea that he started hitting HARD with the long and drawn out "speaking in tongues" and "singing in tongues" with audience participation. This portion of events were several times somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes in length. At the end of one of these sessions Henry acknowledged that it had gone on for a rather long time and explained that he saw one particular woman in the congregation that was NOT speaking (or singing) in tongues, and he just wanted to keep going until she got with the program! WRONG WRONG WRONG. Not only does the Bible say that different people get different gifts of the Holy Spirit; Paul (aka Saul aka Kefa) warned that speaking in tongues should not be overdone at public gatherings as it would/could cause confusion for non-believers. Lastly, I've visited churches that pressure people to speak in tongues, and more often than not I believe these people are pretending tongues just to "go along" with the group. I also know that Satan has his own demonic version of speaking in tongues, and can't think of a much better way to get in touch with ungodly spirits!

    Last but not least, before I shook myself awake from being quite enchanted with this man named Henry Gruver, (one friend called me a "Gruvey" because I sang his praises so much), I gave his website a donation of $100 along with a request for a few CDs and DVDs. (They do not sell them on the website but ask for donations.) That was the end of August 2017. Over the past two months I called and left a message a few times, concerned that they had received my money but not my CD and DVD request. I expressed this on the voice messages. No one (ever) called me back. I also emailed them (once or twice, I cannot remember which) and no one emailed me back. Clearly Gruver and his office were just fine with accepting my money and leaving it at that. What a slap in the face.

    One really good lesson came out of this for me: don't ever "follow" or admire anyone too much -- that is for the Holy Trinity -- and remember always to be a Berean, comparing the Word of God with what is being preached and don't let the jesters get you down. We live in a fallen world, and it's going to be that way until the Second Coming. God bless!
    • I am needing to connect with a genuine apostle or apostolic ministry. I am listening to Gruver now here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZtzu.... There are aspects of it that don't sound right, especially after he said two or three times that he marveled that God would use him to release the apostolic mantle. There is no need to be self-deprecating when God has chosen you for a task, because He must choose someone... Do you have any advice on finding genuine believers in person or/and connecting with genuine apostolic people?
    • To comment on the Prince Charles mention. Just last last Saturday, 29.12.2018, the queen of England offered the US rulership under an old school mornachy. With Charles or William ruling at some point. Just thought I would bring that to your knowledge. I don't know Henry or his work and will not judge him in any way. Just thought I would share this.
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  • I’m sad
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    Was not able to get edit feature to work until it expired, so here is my rewrite:

    REGARDING HENRY (Gruver)

    I used to think he was the best preacher since Charles Spurgeon. I put portions of his videos on my YouTube channel and did what I could to get the word out about this amazing "Prayer Walker." Now I see him as a man of deceit. I would like to think he was not, but it is just really, really hard to see it any other way now. I don't know. I'm not perfect and I'm not a perfect Christian, but I'm on fire for the True God and His Precious Son Christ Jesus, and in my pea brain things just are not adding up with Mr. Gruver.

    The first red flag for me was his touting the "Toronto Blessing" and I'm fairly certain I even heard him name Benny Hinn with a straight face. As I am wont to do, I apologized for Henry. "Oh, he's just so busy doing his own thing he never has time to find out who the charlatans are! He just doesn't know any better."

    I was so thrilled with his never-ending stories of how his love and faith got him out of dangerous situations while converting the "bad guys," not to mention his healing every patient from the Russian hospital on nationwide Russian TV. Maybe all those things DID happen. Who am I to say they did not? However, with all those FANTASTIC stories you'd think at least two or three witnesses to the truth of them would come forward. Why haven't they?

    The next thing that really seemed odd to me was Henry's vision featuring Prince Charles in a role as a godly man reprimanding the U.S. for going to war "without God." Later in another sermon Henry told a long story. The moral to the story? Prayer walker gets to stand right next to Prince Charles and Princess Diana. He told the story I would be more likely to read in a fan (celebrity) magazine, and the only "spiritual" drift of the story was that if you would do things like he (Henry) does, you too may one day rub elbows with royalty. What?

    Oh, but then it got worse. A couple more sermons and he hedges in by saying, "I used to preach against this!" What? Gold dust falling from the ethers at a church gathering. And WHY is it okay now? Apparently because he figures if it happens to HIM, then it's got to be from the Creator because he's just that close to the Father. Next thing I'm hearing from him is that JEWELS are falling on and around him from the ethers: rubies, diamonds, sapphires too. Again he just presumes it is from YeHoVaH, our Lord and Creator. Couldn't possibly be enchantments from the enemy when Henry is in the house? Sorry, Henry, you really lost me with that one. I'm not interested in signs and wonders. If it is not DEFINITELY and definitively from Christ Jesus I'm outta there. This is nothing new by the way. I had two Catholic friends who got showered in gold dust at a local church -- the run right across the street from the chapel in Austin, Texas that featured a weeping Jesus (if you were "blessed" enough to see it). I know my friends really saw the gold dust -- but I also know that the Catholic Church is apostate, so I'm not impressed.

    As if that were not enough, I got on a jag of watching videos of Gruver in Korea (and other Asian countries). I believe it was in Korea that he started hitting HARD with the long and drawn out "speaking in tongues" and "singing in tongues" with audience participation. This portion of events were several times somewhere between 30 and 45 minutes in length. At the end of one of these sessions Henry acknowledged that it had gone on for a rather long time and explained that he saw one particular woman in the congregation that was NOT speaking (or singing) in tongues, and he just wanted to keep going until she got with the program! WRONG WRONG WRONG. Not only does the Bible say that different people get different gifts of the Holy Spirit; Paul (aka Saul aka Kefa) warned that speaking in tongues should not be overdone at public gatherings as it would/could cause confusion for non-believers. Lastly, I've visited churches that pressure people to speak in tongues, and more often than not I believe these people are pretending tongues just to "go along" with the group. I also know that Satan has his own demonic version of speaking in tongues, and can't think of a much better way to get in touch with ungodly spirits!

    Last but not least, before I shook myself awake from being quite enchanted with this man named Henry Gruver, (one friend called me a "Gruvey" because I sang his praises so much), I gave his website a donation of $100 along with a request for a few CDs and DVDs. (They do not sell them on the website but ask for donations.) That was the end of August 2017. Over the past two months I called and left a message a few times, concerned that they had received my money but not my CD and DVD request. I expressed this on the voice messages. No one (ever) called me back. I also emailed them (once or twice, I cannot remember which) and no one emailed me back. Clearly Gruver and his office were just fine with accepting my money and leaving it at that. Their website says delivery will take 2-3 weeks. It's been 8 weeks and I have received nothing. What a slap in the face. I hope they enjoy the $100 donation. It's the last one I'll ever send.

    It did occur to me that maybe Henry was ill or in the hospital or something, but last time I called their number the recording said he was touring in Canada.

    One really good lesson came out of this for me: don't ever "follow" or admire anyone too much -- that is except for the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit -- and remember always to be a Berean, comparing the Word of God with what is being preached and don't let the jesters get you down. We live in a fallen world, and it's going to be that way until the Second Coming.

    God bless!
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    • It’s also interesting how so many Christians are quick to point finger and declare”Pharisee!!!”on anyone who seeks answers/facts about ppl or things that have nothing to do with our faith in God. Maybe before 21st century that wld fly, but not now when we literally have most quantifiable FACTS at our fingertips.......I don’t need to rely on my faith/discernment to look up how many prophetic words this man has spoken, when they were spoken, what they consisted of and IF they ever came to pass (or were conveniently forgotten by those with ears who heard it....soon after the year of calamity came and went). I can also look into history of time period when certain miracles were purportedly broadcasted On state run TV,or witnessed by many. I can look up if he was indeed sent to South Korea as ambassador on behalf of America during the Obama Administration-from what I’ve found thus far, that never happened either. I refuse to feel guilty for using the process of simple deduction & my ability to reason that the good Lord gave me,simply bcuz some Christians are frightened by the idea of questioning men of God & lash out at me because of it
    • Good for you. I have no problems making judgments and using my own reasoning and research. People who say we shouldn't judge are unwitting hypocrites since they themselves judge every single day. The Bible tells us to beware of wolves who look like sheep. You can only discern a wolf by using your judgment, so we're to judge. The Bible says to judge with righteous judgment. It says to not judge (as in condemn) so we don't get judged (condemned); because we all will be judged, therefore "judge" just necessarily mean 'condemn'.

      I didn't research Gruver. I heard one testimony of his and what stood out most to me was his false humility when reporting that Jesus chose him to release the apostolic mantle from the enemy. Keep using what Solomon calls "good judgment" and don't let anyone dissuade you. You're doing what the Bible tells us all to do.
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  • 4
    The work of Henry Gruver can only be assessed and judged by our Savior Yeshua. We should instead, mind our own judgment. It is frightening to pass judgment or make critique on matters we do not fully know about and with the kind of heart that we have that does not love as Yeshua loves.

    Our judgment touches the Lord’s anointed. Live in the Fear of God instead. Who knows, you may be next in line to be judged by someone more cruel than you.
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    I agree with you. Have followed Henry for 20 yrs and find him to be filled with love and humility. The religious people who judge him need to be very careful just because they don't agree or understand what God may be doing through him. And could he be incorrect about some things? Sure, Could you? I think so.
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    • Saint Mikha'el, well said. God can use any and everyone. Jesus plainly says that to "beware false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." He also says in the same context that many christians will say to Him, "Have we not prophesied in Your name and in Your name cast out demons and done many miracles?" These aren't non-christians but christians only. He will say to them, "I never knew you." He says the same to Judas-- for those who think "I never knew you" is talking to non-christians. He worked through them and with them, but they were false. Too bad so many people don't know what "By their fruits you will recognize them" means, otherwise they would look more at the lifestyle and integrity of a minister instead of his popularity and how many miracles he's accomplished or how many prophetic words he's correctly given.
    • I agree with Asher A. Completely.
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  • 2
    Great encouragement and insight from this brother. Very minor disagreement with a small amount of his sermons. But I consider that I might be wrong, and not him. I was raised anti-Pentecostal, so I expect to have disagreements about teachings. The limits that were ingrained in me aren't in him, praise the Lord. Keep it going Henry! Keep up the prayer walking!
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  • 2
    Let's be logical about this. If you lived in the times when Jesus walked the earth, you wouldn't expect your Messiah to walk around barefoot or on a donkey, have dinner with a tax collector, or flipping over the tables in your most holly place of worship. It wouldn't fit your PERCEIVED IMAGE of what He should appear like.

    Is Henry getting anything out of this? Financial security? Healthy lifestyle? Is he actually finding a way to get away from his nagging family and enjoy the world's top resorts? And the fame? What fame? I'd never even hear about this man hadn't I decided one day to dig around internet and stumble upon Ron Wyatt first, which led me months later to Henry's testimonies. Is he blind not to see how some of his "brothers in Lord" are hosting football stadiums full of people?

    If you think his life path was something any of us would've been able to endure even for a year (many even for a month), then you have a strong case doubting his intentions. As for me, I listen to the teaching of the Holy Spirit, and the lesson is this: When you give a dime to a beggar, it is not yours to bewilder about what his gonna do with it, whether he's just a faceless cheat who found a way to earn for living without breaking a sweat. God will be the judge of that, while your deed is counted just as strong as if he weren't a cheat. Can't you apply the same to Henry's case?

    Again, try to devote your entire life to what he's been doing, for the benefit that he's been getting. In fact, the benefits are enormous, but they're not of this world, which makes him, in my mind, more legit than most others.
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    • This comment was removed on 2018-11-09.
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    • I’m genuinely confused by all the ambiguous points & counter points to some rambling, previous point bthat was made
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  • 1
    Privet!
    "...When you give a dime to a beggar, it is not yours to bewilder about what his gonna do with it, whether he's just a faceless cheat who found a way to earn for living without breaking a sweat. God will be the judge of that, while your deed is counted just as strong as if he weren't a cheat..."

    I have to agree!
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    Thanks all of you. Big mistake that S. Cox did by talking about someone he doesn't know in person. See how many people came to his defense. Is a shame that believers in Christ judge good christian mans like Henry Gruver. You remind me of the pharisees.
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    Henry seems like a decent man. Some of his detractors seem to "protest too much" indicating Henry may be a man of God.
    Henry is not perfect. Throw the first stone if you must. He seems to like to tell his experiences and he may misstate or poorly remember all the facts. So far no one has said anything that makes him seem like a false teacher.
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  • Henry is a God fearing man. Just as Dumitru Duduman, Maurice Sklar, and Billy Graham have been sent by God, so has Henry been sent with a prophetic message for all.

    Henry has been anointed by The Lord to warn His people to flee the wrath to come! Wrath not only coming upon North America, but upon all nations who serve the evil one!

    A humble message for Saint M. in Russia: You are greatly deceived by Satan! Pray the Angelic Salutation - The Rosary! Ask for the Virgin Mary's intercession, and you will be saved!
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  • I agree with the message above.

    I had a dream... Fire was falling from the sky... Jesus appeared to me as the suffering Savior. His message to me was this: to bring souls to His Divine Merciful Heart.

    Read the "Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalska: Divine Mercy in My Soul"

    Time is so very short. Prepare your soul! Do good works in Jesus' Holy Name... Pray for the souls in Purgatory... Pray for the people around you.... Repent!

    Our time upon this earth is a passing shadow. Time in Heaven or hell is an eternity!
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    Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Don’t believe man-made doctrines. Hebrews 4 :So let us come boldly to the throne of grace so we may find grace to help in time of need.There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us in time of need.
    Know when religions teach you doctrines of men. We only pray to Jesus.
    No one else.
    • "10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”[c] 13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." -Titus 1:10-16

      Amen
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  • 2
    Teresa Gelotti
    Jesus IS the only mediator between God !
    AMEN ! Rock Solid Truth .
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  • I am needing to connect with a genuine apostle or apostolic ministry. I am listening to Gruver now here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZtzu.... There are aspects of it that don't sound right, especially after he said two or three times that he marveled that God would use him to release the apostolic mantle. There is no need to be self-deprecating when God has chosen you for a task, because He must choose someone... Do you have any advice on finding genuine believers in person or/and connecting with genuine apostolic people?
    • I don't understand. He was self-deprecating; I agree that it isn't necessary in that situation; but what are you saying.
    • Cade Pope, what I am saying is that something is off about Gruver. I have yet to be wrong, since 1998, when I sense that something is wrong or bad about a person that isn't readily apparent. I walked into a church in 2006 and spotted four people (two couples) who I immediately perceived were not christians. When I prayed about this, God showed me that they were satanists who were planted in the church to subterfuge and destroy it slowly from the inside. When I told the pastoral team, they prayed and God showed them the same thing plus a fifth one whom I hadn't noticed. Then two more (another couple) came from Germany under the auspices of being ministers who wanted to learn how to minister from the pastoral team. I sensed immediately that there was something hidden (wrong but out of view) about them, and when I prayed, God showed me again that these two from Germany were satanists plants (called in after their German-history satanists plants in the church had been uncovered). Again, I reported to the pastoral team, they prayed, and God confirmed it to them too.

      I share the above to say that if I am sensing something is wrong, then something is wrong. I know that's quite a claim, but it is more 'uncanny' or what the Bible calls discernment. Some people have more than others, and we need to learn to listen to people no matter what they say and then CONSIDER what they say so that God has a chance to reveal the truth to us. Because if you throw out what someone says-- whether a kid alleging sexual abuse by a trusted family member or a person reporting satanist plants in a church or someone saying that a trusted minister is actually a wolf in sheep's clothing-- then you will not be able to hear if God was to tell you the same thing. This is why Paul said to Timothy, "Consider what I say, and the Lord will give you understanding in ALL things" (2Tim. 2:7). If you stop to THINK about things, whether or not you believe them, God will make you smarter than the average person who walks around thinking that what he 'knows' is in fact true. You will know more and understand more and will learn to discern past and in spite of your own biases and prejudices that want to believe certain things (good or bad) about people and situations. You will learn to see things as they in fact ARE, not as you think or prefer or want them to be. I sense something is off-- there is a LIE-- regarding Gruver after I watched him relating a story of supposedly being 'translated' back in time to bind angels who were holding back the apostolic mantle and release the mantle. Something is DEFINITELY off (i.e. there is a LIE; he is LYING about some thing(s)), and when he became self-deprecating three or four times about why God would choose him to release the apostolic mantle, I RECOGNIZED this as false humility.

      You don't see great leaders like Moses telling people, "I don't know why God chose me" though they have said it directly to God (e.g. of people who have said this to God but not others are Moses, Jeremiah, and David) nor do you see leaders in the New Testament doing this. Now, when Paul said things like that he was the least of the apostles and the greatest sinner, he was not being self-deprecating; he was being humble. (Afterall, he's the only apostle who always mentioned that he was an apostle in all his writings.) Humility isn't about being 'lowly'; it is about being REALISTIC. God wants humans to be humble because that IS our reality. We can't live without breathing or wake up if God's Spirit doesn't wake us; therefore, we are humble and humbled 24/7 though we don't know it. None of us is great, powerful, or more special than God has made us. Therefore, if we are not humble, then we are not realistic (i.e. we are prideful), and God knows this though humans don't. There was no need for Gruver to say even once that he was 'humbled' that God chose him for the TASK; but he said it three or four times in just one interview. Paul, on the other hand, says this:

      "Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life. And who is EQUAL TO THE TASK?" (2Cor. 2:14:16.)

      God chooses people for all kinds of tasks, but no one is equal to the task of representing Jesus Christ-- the King of the Universe-- on this small planet. Therefore whoever goes on and on about not being equal to the task is either mistaken (they think that God wants them 'lowly and miserable') or is self-righteous and is broadcasting his/her false humility (i.e. arrogance and pridefulness) for those who have discerning eyes to see beyond the outward appearance. Compare Gruver (and every minister) and what he says to the biblical standard. You will be surprised how quickly he will start to fall apart as a genuine minister when the Pattern and Example (as they in fact are) become the Bible and the Lord Himself. "And who is EQUAL to the TASK?" No one. THAT is why God chose to work through us-- so He can be glorified among the fallen angels primarily, that human beings can 'embody' God and still be humble.
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  • Henry Gruver has spent his life in service to the Lord. Stop causing dissention and division in the body of Christ. Repent of this gossip and backbiting.
    • Photographer, how many times have you seen anyone disagree with a minister and it caused division in the churches? It has never happened, at least not while a minister was actually innocent. What you refer to as the Body of Christ is not in fact the Body of Christ. Read the NT and how 'church' is to be conducted and then compare it with how 'church' is conducted now and you will see that we have a hybrid religious system-- like the Pharisees and Sadducees did-- and not a Body of Christ at all.

      Furthermore, the Bible tells christians to test all things, to test prophecies, to test ministers, to test each other, and to test each one him/herself. You are contradicting the Bible to tell christians to not test Gruver or any other minister since God decries false ministers more than He does false christians and tells christians to test ministers more than He tells christians to test other christians. Your view on this subject is entirely skewed, built on social tradition and not on biblical concordance.
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    Regarding Henry Gruver, I have a question. Is it better to have a flawed servant who is doing his best, with all his heart to get the message out? or is it better to be so perfect that you never tell anyone? Will those who receive Christ in a Henry Gruver meeting be disqualified from entry into Heaven because Henry Gruver pointed the way to Christ? I think not. God uses imperfect vessels. I know very little about Henry Gruver, I heard one testimony by him about the goodness of God.

    We need to divide the wheat from the chaff and pray that God bring more wheat rather than torching the entire crop.

    I have served the Lord for close to 50 years. I have heard all kinds of experiential stuff. I have also had some experiences that have convinced me GOD IS REAL and HIS POWER is absolute. I also look to the absolute authority - God's Word.

    Mark 9:38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

    39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

    1 Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

    So, is the man perfect, no and neither am I. But consider his heart for God

    To quote a mighty man of God who recently passed away, his name does not matter ( you probably don't know him) - "If God can use a donkey, He can use you".

    So, if Henry Gruver with all of his flaws and imperfections is willing to do his best to carry the precious message of the gospel around the world or down the block, to quote Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
    • Great input, Jeff! Pretty much rounds up and verifies all our attempts to answer in defense of this servent of God. I think the poise with which we so vigorously engage in attacking someone’s integrity comes from our lives being led by thousands of congregations, instead of letting the words of the Bible be our most trustful Minister.
    • Jeff, I don't think you're getting the point. Jesus expressly tells His followers to TEST all ministers to know which is true or false. When His disciples asked Him how they would know when 'we' were in the endtimes. Jesus's first words in answer are "Beware that no one deceives you." He then proceeds to say that MANY will come in His name to deceive, calling themselves prophets, apostles, ministers, and would show even great signs. Gruver isn't doing great signs; he's talking about 'great experiences'. Yet, many of those who will do even 'greater things' than Gruver will be false.

      Jesus said that at the Judgment, "many will say" that they have done all these miracles and such but that He will reject them for all eternity, because they did not follow Him. Yes, we are not to stop those who are making an impact for God. Even Paul said this:

      "Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice" (Php. 1:15-18).

      Paul said he is happy that the gospel is going forward, not that these people have bad motives. Those who preach with bad motives or who cast out demons and do miracles and save many will not enter Heaven IF they are not true believers. The people Paul described are not true believers; they will save many, but they will not save themselves. The Bible said to mark these people-- those who are not believers, even if they do 'much for God'-- and to avoid them. In Revelation, Jesus commended the Ephesian Church for judging/discerning and therefore making a distinction between false and true apostles and rejecting the false. If the Bible tells us to do it, we are to do it. Period. You wouldn't let just anyone babysit your kids, even if they were christians. You would apply a standard of judgment as to what you want a babysitter to be like before deciding. How, then, is it wrong to apply the biblical standard of what a minister looks like to EVERY minister?
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  • I have had a near death experience, what I witnessed was what tens of thousands have witnessed, life after death. Heaven. And judgement. My wife doesn’t believe me. Go figure. I’m not sure if it fits the world socialist agenda that is knee deep in re-creating nimrod’s Tower of Babel, but the criticism of some of God’s messengers...looks a lot like satan’s deception. Likewise the “societies” and acronym’d “institutes” where this deception emanates from, looks like the worldwide manipulation denoted by the deep pockets of liberal billionaires in the US. Find who financed that ark in Cincinnati and you’ll find the true deceivers; not evident in a po’dunk Wyatt research in no named museum in Arkansas. Surely, a gold digger like Ron Wyatt would have a few more dollars to spend on Danny? Bet Ken Ham’s family has no worries. Had enough Satan, or do you need me to name your upper echelon master manipulator, George Soros? Have a great day folks!
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  • Yes, there is definitely a cabal controlling all the world's governments and propagating their agendas far and wide (e.g. feminism, the LGBTQ agenda, ec.). However, we are to test the spirits and discern ministers, as the Bible tells us, since so many will come to deceive in these last days. Sure people should be diplomatic with their words on such topics, but diplomacy doesn't equate with truth. However a person says it, we are to be watchful of ministers and christians, and we should always listen to people who have genuine concerns about ministers and ministries being ungodly or false.
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