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Autonomous incorporation of government corporation

How would one invoke the 10th Amendment in autonomously incorporating a government corporation?
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  • Possibly acting as a public within a Republic outside corporate thinking? By foundation and principal and appropriate legislations that apply the Constitution Rules that apply and limit or stop Government Corporation since it is a direct act of defiance against such an amendment.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.

    This says a great deal to me as a public, person, one of the people in a community or Republic. Know why you are here and why you would put forth such an effort. What does the Declaration of Independence warn you of, what does it say about you as a person. How does this constitution support you in this light?

    Is Corporate a part of this creation? NO, so who stands, some other or those concerned? Which are you?
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  • @William Schooler - I'm not sure if you answered my question or not.
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  • These are definitely tough questions to answer for you, but it is the answer to your question. If it was an easy question why would you ask another? This is the most simple answer I know and not the answer I do not know. Not all answers are meant to be answered by another and you have to go through the steps of locating it. I understood the question and I understand the answer, now its your turn.

    Answer each question very personally because it is very personal question because it directly effects my life and my liberty, as well your’s doesn’t it? This represents a very personal answer to you by you.
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  • @William - I know why I am here, I have already made the personal commitment to see this through and I'm not alone. The proposed corporation is inline with the Constitution and the Declaration....The answer to my question is do it if you believe it is needed and I do. So thanks but I believe the question doesn't support the title.

    The problem is not making the decision to do so - that has been made. Rather, where do we file the articles of incorporation on the federal level. The Articles are official once signed and notarized but we have to publish that we are in existence. How and where would we do that (again purposely sidestepping Congress)
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  • So let me get this straight, you want to incorporate? Why? Is this what you think establishes you into existence or confines your Government? This is one of the major problems of today is the corporate structure. Maybe you should look deeper into this idea and the corporate structure is exactly what we have in this country.

    Why did we become Independent of British Rule? to be free of this corporate structure. Next I steer you to the second paragraph in the Declaration of independence. Personally this starts in each community, the documents are already submitted and recognized (although altered) but are not used as in lived. What is altered can simply be unaltered by the new Government which we the people shall institute as we have done before. To think other wise is to not understand what took place in this country.

    The difference of an interpreted document and a duplicated document is living the ideas and reviewing the results of such decisions. There is no document that cannot be resolved unless we keep going around and telling without the living part, the old trust me statement.

    Next who are you filling documents with, a corrupt government or the one you form to correct the corruption done? So what takes place is you educating your community to use and live these documents to build Republics by examples that have something good to share versus all this bad to share. Give me something to live for because incorporating me does nothing for my personality, my life or my effort. Learn to live the concept of this country, A REPUBLIC which is an activity and not some writing on a document. This starts in your home, in your community, becomes your state and then gets states on board by the results you can bare and stop all this trust me crap.

    Look at the 10th amendment and the Declaration of Independence and tell me these two do not back each other up, now for what reason? Why have these, why put any effort in, why put ourselves through these motions? To be Republics and have Liberty viably present so we may grow our Republics. Without Liberty this activity is impossible and todays lessons no different than yesterdays lessons. This is why both of these documents in their original form are very instrumental.

    I am going to recommend these guys as well because they have done so much homework and have a plan. I support this plan but I do so as I state.
    http://www.reclamationprojectx.org

    Also the word autonomous and corporate law don’t work well together, implement that with todays corporate law in place and what do you have? Present Government.
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  • @William -

    "So let me get this straight, you want to incorporate? Why? Is this what you think establishes you into existence or confines your Government? This is one of the major problems of today is the corporate structure." - Yes, we wish to incorporate. The incorporation is for our protection and no, we are in existence even without the organizing documents.

    " Maybe you should look deeper into this idea and the corporate structure is exactly what we have in this country." - The corporation will be a for-benefit corporation (its new) for-profit with a social, political, education mission).

    "Personally this starts in each community," - agreed

    "Next who are you filling documents with, a corrupt government or the one you form to correct the corruption done?" - I have made no mention of forming a new government. It technically is a government corporation and there are many in existence. This is the primary question. We do not wish to incorporate via Act of Congress because that will constitute a couple of conflicts of interest (ex. no interference from government pursuant to the 1st Amendment). I was thinking a Public Notice pursuant to the Administrative Procedures Act - What I need is an effective way to PUBLISH the articles of incorporation so that it will constitute a legal Public Notice

    "So what takes place is you educating your community to use and live these documents to build Republics by examples that have something good to share versus all this bad to share. Give me something to live for because incorporating me does nothing for my personality, my life or my effort. Learn to live the concept of this country, A REPUBLIC which is an activity and not some writing on a document. This starts in your home, in your community, becomes your state and then gets states on board by the results you can bare and stop all this trust me crap. " - Yes, again agreed - our plan is to build community by community - state by state

    "Also the word autonomous and corporate law don’t work well together, implement that with todays corporate law in place and what do you have? Present Government." - What you have is an independent and financially autonomous business entity that performs some government functions. Here are a few but they are all financially dependent on the Budget (ex. http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/I.... This corporation is self-funding.
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  • Getting back to the incorporation - It is needed if the organization is to hold property, make legally binding contracts, hire employees, be in a position to sue or be sued as a society, or the like (and it is). A principal advantage in incorporating is that officers and members are protected from personal liability under obligations that may be incurred by the organization. Apart from this consideration, in general, a society need not be incorporated unless incorporation is dictated by a law relating to the society's contemplated activities (and there is - Administrative Law (APA))

    Aside from that, the corporation itself is covered as a mode of expression protected under the 1st Amendment. The requirement of a Congressional charter for a federally-incorporated entity is a violation of the 1st Amendment in that sense.
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  • "Next who are you filling documents with, a corrupt government or the one you form to correct the corruption done?" - I have made no mention of forming a new government. It technically is a government corporation and there are many in existence. This is the primary question. We do not wish to incorporate via Act of Congress because that will constitute a couple of conflicts of interest (ex. no interference from government pursuant to the 1st Amendment). I was thinking a Public Notice pursuant to the Administrative Procedures Act - What I need is an effective way to PUBLISH the articles of incorporation so that it will constitute a legal Public Notice

    Define legal for me, as defined by the Constitution? Or some Judicial branch for approval. What does laws of nature transpire into when lived? When the old Government is lost in its own creation what choice is it you think you have? Are you going to use their corruption to fix themselves?

    We hold these truths to be self evident, that all mean are created equal. What truths and evident to who, me personally? So how are we equal, equal in idea creation, decision ability, self determinism? Is there some other equal I cannot experience?

    So the only way I have have legally binding contracts or agreements is by such a judicial defined set of laws? They have never fabricated any unnecessary laws correct so I could go on such an assumption?

    When do we as life have Unalienable rights to create our own agreement without any other authority exactly? You are using something you are used to, that is widely used in history and its successes sit where in our world today?
    Where did you learn you were bound by their terms? How can you make better terms by knowing exactly why and not the made up why?

    Corporate law is a fabrication and is an idea generated by financiers and Law makers who live in the same dome of Rule. That way of life is a choice also or it would not exist. Unfortunately it has been around a lot longer and failed repeatedly and until the Declaration of Independence was originated had nothing really to resist it. Even in the Republic idea and philosophies have been largely perverted but if we drill down and see how and why it fits us in life do we understand the correct definition as Communities able to sustain themselves by practices they can show work. That allows those in communities to promote their own ideas into the growth of this sustainment. It is where those in the community come together and share success and failed ideas and learn from each other to improve practices. This is not something that is dictated, this is something that grows over time and has verifiable results. Our biggest problem is we keep using old ideas to perform this task which were ill taught and are clearly bogus. When I go back and look at the original resources of these, the one thing I can find is a very consistent result. Do I deny it exist or really learn to understand it for what it is.

    Here is two clear sources of choice and each have ideas that support these, so which ideas are they and which way have you chosen?

    There is The Republic way of Life, which is where life in communities supports the activities of life that sustains communities.
    Or there is the Rule of life which is where some in life feel or decide themselves above other life and they only create ideas to support themselves and could care less about communities.

    So with these two which one does what you are attempting to do, fit into? Where did the idea of Rule originate? Didn’t the idea of money, law, taxes and secrecy also originate at this same time?

    Why did the idea of Republics ever come into view from its original idea, to get away from what other way of life?

    So again, who are the rule makers? Life or only some in life? and these are the questions to be answered. I know I am capable of choice and agreement, how about you? So I need these others to do what for me exactly?

    By the way I am very glad you are questioning because this is how we can learn from each other. I also recognize it is not widely practiced do to the shortage of Republics in this country, but this is the practice first hand.
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  • LOL. I feel like I am talking to Yoda (that's a compliment). I'll have to go with the Republic way of life over the Rule of life for the very reasons you are implying with your questions.

    For me, legal is what is permissible by the Constitution and that in itself is a very open-ended statement.

    "Are you going to use their corruption to fix themselves?" - Use their corruption? I'd say expose the corruption.

    Corporations have formed without the current central government providing any type of legal "approval" but that was before the Constitution was ratified.

    "When do we as life have Unalienable rights to create our own agreement without any other authority exactly?" Anytime we feel the need.

    "Corporate law is a fabrication and is an idea generated by financiers and Law makers who live in the same dome of Rule." - VERY NICE!

    "Our biggest problem is we keep using old ideas to perform this task which were ill taught and are clearly bogus" - CLEARLY

    "So again, who are the rule makers? Life or only some in life?" We ALL are

    "So I need these others to do what for me exactly?" Nothing.

    We're on the same page in terms of what liberty and freedom mean. My concern is not ideological its logistical. This corporation will need to interact with other corporate and government entities. If it is not recognized as a Corporation - those transactions will not take place. I have no problem with executing the articles of Incorporation as an independent governmental corporation - no problem at all and I don't need permission to do so. I am referring to "official standing" - example: federal corporations have direct access to federal courts - if we do not have the "proper standing" we will not be seen in federal court.
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  • “This corporation will need to interact with other corporate and government entities.”

    Why because they say so or because you think this makes it viable or at all possible? The logistics you speak of are the very ones or those making up this fiasco.

    If we stand by our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution as was written as in living these ideas what do they not constitute that you are working to achieve? The legal doctrine they want is whose law, their's or your's.

    Since I disapprove of most laws written, I find it hard to have any collaboration with the idiots who created such a mess.

    Is the Federal court a part of this present Government? As in the Judicial branch which consistently stomps on my Constitution like it does not exists? That judiciary branch?

    There are a lot of old ideas we have a tough time attempting to bag because we believe some how this holds something together. This has proven false, so when is it we recognize what we see over all the things we have been taught?

    Compliment well received, LOL. I have been personally practicing these ideas I speak and trust in. Because I have it has given me an abundance of energy, I keep wondering if there is something wrong with me, but in review these ideas have strong support and have become very difficult for me to argue. Now I use them for the argument of old ideas, old practices and have given many much to think with in their lives. Now if all who choose this way of life become as focused as I we shall see results. As I have discovered it is retraining me after the enormous miss education. Easy it has not been, but far better in revealing it has been.

    Yes I am part philosophies, part practical and part tester and as a Producing American I deliver consistently. So I am using what I do know and not all the things I do not, and especially none of those I thought I knew but knew nothing at all. Call it what it is, one hell of an experience. But clearly it is me against them in my choices and I am finding many others who really like these clear cut choices and that visual effect lets say, LOL. The Yoda vision, LOL, that is funny.

    Thank you.
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  • Your very welcome and thank you for entertaining me. Admittedly you caught me off guard, I'm used to discussions where I control the tempo and your approach stopped me in my tracks. Tough questions indeed but I found that I had already answered most of them. Thankfully.

    “This corporation will need to interact with other corporate and government entities." Why because they say so or because you think this makes it viable or at all possible? The logistics you speak of are the very ones or those making up this fiasco. --- No because we plan on conducting business operations including (It is needed if the organization is to hold property, make legally binding contracts, hire employees, be in a position to sue or be sued as a society, or the like)
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  • I understand, so where did this idea originate and why is it so binding over simple agreement?
    “(It is needed if the organization is to hold property, make legally binding contracts, hire employees, be in a position to sue or be sued as a society, or the like)”
    I get why it is this way now and I also understand that people have this innate feeling some other must have the authority to say. But please attempt this one recognition; who has control of you and who has the ultimate say for you?

    Who decides for you? And this a question between yourself, so who has the final say?

    Does anyone you know have any more say, common anyone you know? You really have to be honest with this question to get this answer correct and I am pretty sure you have it but there is this other idea that keeps imposing on it.

    So who is this guy creating these ideas?

    Look, we have a Declaration of Independence that has not been utilized for literal years, I mean lots of them. Next we have a Constitution that has been altered, destroyed in some parts and is stomped on every day for the last several years but more like over a 100. These are the most important Documents of your whole life and what these idiots write that supposedly supersedes this still supersedes this?

    What would I do without a Government would be a good question to ask and answer and why is it I have one? What purpose does it serve? To assure I have property rights ( O thank you master), to make a contract takes them to assure it is what, in the correct words? Or by their authority? I have them because I have a business and then expand this and hire employees I have to have this? And then I could get sued (My resources stolen from me by laws that were fabricated to protect me) which is the protection part exactly?

    Not to be of any disrespect but are you sure you understand the Declaration of Independence as it applies to you directly? Doesn’t this give you all the authority over you that you need? It is documented so it must be true correct? What if it wasn’t meant to be a permission as much a statement of truth for you to recognize yourself and base your choices on? Then what is it?

    Isn’t the constitution a set of Rules to stop Government from intruding on me, isn’t making laws to protect me intruding in my life? Is that really a part of our Constitution, or is it about their limits to keep them from making all this poor crap up?

    Yes I recognize I am challenging you, but am I or am I challenging some old schooling or old decisions made up of some others ideas? I hope you are willing to explore this a little because it is truly worth a glance especially reading the Declaration of Independence as a Documented set of truths to USE in Choices. This may make it look a tad different than you are used to seeing it or reading it. Its a risk I know, but whats the worse that can happen? It will break who you used to be by the training you received, who is in charge of education again?

    Funny how life is a chain of events and all the links are tied together extending over time. Every experience sitting there where ever you go what ever you do, like a following. As the time goes the accumulation grows doesn’t it? Was it all yours or did others polk fun into your dream, your imagination and thoughts and strategies? Were the right choices made, all the right ingredients applied, did all the outcomes come out perfect?

    Its good you are willing to answer some of these for yourself and even better you have answered some for yourself. But remember one thing if nothing else, this chain of events does not stop until you do and you will continually drag each one no matter where you go but when we find the truths we seem to drop the links that no longer have to do with us anymore because we realize not all ideas are good ones and because we generate ideas its good to understand who else does as well. If I suck at it all the time I am going to share bogus ideas, but if I learn and grow and drop some of the old links do my ideas become far better, far more informed and far more enjoyable to experience and then turn around and drag these with me. Its vicious I know but an experience worth every moment in such a time.

    Then again I might just be full of crap as the next guy and pass on all the biggest bogus ideas I could possibly muster up, so how would you verify me as truth or not? The same as you would all others who create ideas.

    Some yoda reality, LOL or crap sense, you know what this is right? when it makes so much sense to you all you can say is Crap!
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  • This idea originated with an awakening and apparently I have much company. I understand your references to the Declaration as truths, they are unalienabe, they cannot be taken from me by any authority. These rights originate from the Creator and are only 'documented' in our governing documents. The rights and powers are not all-inclusive and can include more if the People retain them as their own (and are able to defend it).

    As far as who has control of me? I am a sovereign entity in my own right just as you or any other Person. The degree to which they exercise that sovereignty is proportional to that person's education level.

    Constitution is a limiting document it prevents (or is suppose to) the government from overstepping its authority.

    I am responsible for my education.

    ...and Crap! Indeed. Let's assume that, for sake of argument. The debates on whether we should or shouldn't, can or can't, will or won't have all been thoroughly deliberated. Let's assume that we have an innovative business model that simultaneously needs to remain both operationally and financially independent. It has to be situated outside the three federal branches but it is designed to work within the system (just from a different perspective and under different control) - that is a matter of choice. We do not wish to destroy the Constitution but rather make improvements on specific elements of it. The question remains however, assuming this is an unavoidable requirement (it is). Where would we file our organizing documents; specifically, with whom? This brings up an entirely different issue. There is no regulatory entity that exercises oversight over these federally incorporated companies, no one place to incorporate federally (besides Congress). Considering this is what we need, it may also become what we do (to some extent).
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  • Very true we are sovereign. I am glad you are responsible for your education, not many take this responsibility.

    I do understand business today but in my discovery of Corporations and their origination and source I want to rid ourselves of this plague. Yes people use it as a tool without realizing its source and what it is actually meant for. Tell me you know no share holders are enemies in Global corporations, right? Only you cannot because like me and most of us we have no idea who is the share of such a corporation. Corporate proprietorship has not helped us, Patent rights is a manipulative, hoarding resources is not intelligence, it is ignorance in the highest form. So I am not much for assumption and I am aware of the system in place today but I will work to dissolve this for the America of tomorrow. But don't be discouraged economics came from the same source and look how many jump on that band wagon and all are right but none represent true results of accomplishment.

    It was very funny to me that the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution make no mention of Corporation or wealth or economics except in warnings.

    From my own perspective as a Producing American most of us like to bring about ideas be it our own or others. We take pleasure in this activity which seems very natural and goes along with our capabilities and I cannot think of an achievement I have completed I was ashamed of because all supported other life in some way or fashion. Now producing in the Corporate world has been arduous at best with the top down approach and it operates the exact way we see Government today. Its hardly that productive yet it has record profits for those pesky share holders who have nothing to do with the creations only the authorities. Even the Corporate think is pretending to change itself but it cannot because of its foundation and principals are wrong.
    I say this from personal experience and I involve myself in solutions and challenge upper management principals. I am the thorn they wish they could make go away only I promote their own ideas better than they do, this becomes a tough argument for them doesn’t it?

    I will say this Jon you have some good heart in you, thank you for taking the time for some discussion. I know it is hard to fit in but for me it is important to fit in so I do as much as I can. Truly you make it worth while and I do enjoy seeing where others come from and the ideas you have to share.

    Thank you for making the time.
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  • and thank you as well.

    I have included some links here for you because they certainly addresses your comment "Now producing in the Corporate world has been arduous at best with the top down approach and it operates the exact way we see Government today. Its hardly that productive yet it has record profits for those pesky share holders who have nothing to do with the creations only the authorities. Even the Corporate think is pretending to change itself but it cannot because of its foundation and principals are wrong." - I believe the strong foundation we require can ONLY be achieved by starting with the appropriate principles.

    1 http://www.bcorporation.net/publicpolicy
    2 http://www.thenation.com/article/1612...
    3 http://www.inc.com/guides/201106/how-...

    Take note all benefit corporations are state incorporated, there is no such entity on the federal level. I believe we need one, not a hierarchical model but rather a horizontally-managed 1st Amendment Assembly - taken to its logical extreme.

    Here is some material that I have composed and introduced (also take note of the Open Assembly platform)

    1 http://www.openassembly.org/p/group/k...
    Under Decisions you will find:
    1 Resolutions for Ascension of the United States General Convention (http://www.openassembly.org/p/item/k-...)
    2 Ascension Briefing: Pt. 1 The Mandate (http://www.openassembly.org/p/item/k-...)
    3 Ascension Briefing: Pt. 2 Sovereign Constitutional Authority (http://www.openassembly.org/p/item/k-...)

    This is a lot of material so I'm not expecting a response anytime soon, if ever. I appreciate your input so far and I do not wish to presume or intrude. With that said, I hope you have a full understanding of where I'm coming from. This material should answer many of the questions you've already asked, perhaps some you haven't.

    Until next time?
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  • OK Jon,

    After a wealth of reading I could not stop thinking about where the Corporate idea was developed and by whom. I believe it started by wealthy British merchants, most of whom were connected to the British Financiers. In fact most law, corporate law is all created around such ideas to keep them free of us stopping them. So what I recognize here is they are attempting to use corporate law against the lawless or the ones who created such laws. I cannot say this is a bad thing but one of the very important factors I discovered about Corporate law was secrecy and the ability to hide. This is how we are infiltrated by our enemies in the first place. This is one of the things I traced back by first realizing secrecy was a big part of what the Rulers were using.

    I promote the entire destruction of corporate law entirely which in the Declaration of Independence we are clearly warned of British Financiers. This is something so many refuse to look at and the whys of such an atrocity. The biggest reason is so many have built their whole lives around economics as the cure and not the cause of our destruction. In seeing all the connections I could in no way discount what was revealed and referred entirely to the Declaration of Independence as my guide for great decision making.

    As long as there is Corporate there will always be a way for secrecy to do what it does by those intent on its use for manipulations. Destroy the Corporate creations and watch what takes place in this hidden world of corrupt.

    So I get why many would attempt this but I would highly recommend they go back to where wealth, finance, Rule, law and secrecy were created and tell me in these practices what are they using different today than they were then? Its all the same tools or ideas only through law they have obscured it to the highest degree ever.

    Just Google Corporation and start searching it out, but better yet search out wealth, Finance, Rule, secrecy and law and see when these were first brought into existence. Which civilization was that and were all these ideas started at that time by the very same people? YES, and it is ancient egypt which is also the first civilization where we see symbols being used to pass along ideas. Then trace this through all of history and show me how it was used differently or did every result always turn out the exact same?

    It is very important to note our independence from these old ideas and this is what I promote. I also promote which idea we were supposed to become but have yet to apply these tools we have. Our Declaration of Independence is our true nature our constitution to be our liberty by defining very strict limits on a governing body to keep it from doing what it is today. There comes a time when this may have to be renewed because of these infiltrations by old enemies. And which enemy has been intent on our Rule and not our Republic? Its still the very same enemy we have had for some time because power and control by stealing is their way of life and they must have a producing nation in order to steal and it is this simple.
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